Ep 162 - The Power of Calm as an Introverted Leader with Terrance Lee

Have you ever considered the power of calm as the cornerstone of effective leadership?

In this insightful episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall and guest Terrance Lee, an accomplished leader and author, dive into the essence of what it means to lead with poise and calmness. Listeners will learn the profound impact of a calm demeanor in guiding teams, the intersection of confidence with introversion, and how to leverage introspection to make balanced decisions.

Key takeaways include an understanding of the 'Calm Effect' and its benefits, strategies for introverts to overcome the roadblocks of overthinking, and practical tips to exude confidence while embracing a quieter leadership style.

Whether you're an aspiring leader or looking to enhance your leadership toolkit, this episode will equip you with a unique perspective on why being calm can be a leader's greatest asset.

Tune in to discover how to lead with calmness, connect authentically with your team, and wield the power of introversion—all leading toward a fulfilling leadership journey. So listen, learn, and be strong.

SHOW NOTES Link: QuietandStrong.com/162

Terrance Lee, also known as The Introvert Leader. Despite shying away from leadership roles due to early experiences with public speaking, Terrance's journey took a turn when necessity pushed him into leadership at his first engineering job. Since then, he's thrived in leadership and management roles at Fortune 500 companies in aerospace and defense. With a track record of leading large teams and authoring the bestseller "Quiet Voice Fearless Leader," Terrance empowers others to awaken their inner leadership potential. 

Connect with Terrance:

NEW BOOK COMING SOON: The Calm Effect - 5 Keys For Introverts To Succeed Without Stress And Lead With Poise  (get the first chapter FREE here)

Quiet Voice Fearless Leader - 10 Principles for Introverts to Awaken the Leader Inside

Website: QuietVoiceFearlessLeader.com

Socials: Instagram |

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
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david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Transcript

Terrance Lee [00:00:00]:
The way that the leader acts, the rest of the team is gonna act that way as well is the way that I view it. And so I think as a leader, it's very important that someone is very poised. Someone is very confident. And a lot of these things, again, I used to associate with extroversion for some reason, and it turns out that a lot of this is associated more so with introverts. There are so many amazing introvert leaders out there, And so I think that someone that's able to have a level ahead, someone that's able to make good decisions, someone that has empathy for their team and the people they work with. For me, you know, those are the traits of a good leader.

David Hall [00:00:51]:
Hello, and welcome to episode 162 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietestrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we'll air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review. That would mean a lot to me.

David Hall [00:01:16]:
Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. So meet Terrence Lee, also known as the introvert leader. Despite shying away from leadership roles due to early experiences of public speaking, Terrence's journey took a turn when necessity pushed him into leadership at his first engineering job. Since then, he's thrived in leadership and management roles at Fortune 500 Companies in Aerospace and Defense. With the track record of leading large teams and authoring the best selling Quiet Voice fearless leader, Terrence empowers others to awaken their inner leadership potential. Alright. Well, welcome back to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Terrence. Terrence, it's great to have you on today.

Terrance Lee [00:02:02]:
Thank you so much. I am very excited to be here.

David Hall [00:02:05]:
And it's a welcome back because you were on episode 41. That was quite some time ago talking about your first book. And now today, we're gonna talk about your second book.

Terrance Lee [00:02:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I remember that conversation, like it was yesterday. You know, it's it's amazing how time just flies. So

David Hall [00:02:23]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So people can go back and listen to episode 41, but let's go ahead and introduce yourselves for those that haven't heard that. Tell us about yourself and just your journey through introversion to becoming a leader.

Terrance Lee [00:02:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I'm one of these people that I would say was definitely when I was growing up, I moved around a lot, and I was a pretty loud kid in the beginning. That's the way I, describe myself with people. Because we moved around so much. I was a kid that used to try to get attention and used to try to make new friends and things like that early on. But I also had a side of me that enjoyed writing, enjoyed time alone, time to myself.

Terrance Lee [00:03:05]:
So, you know, there was that. And when I was 13, in the 7th grade, I had an experience with a choir director that really shifted a lot of things for me. So she was pretty hard on me. And long story short, my particular day, I was singing in the 10th section of our choir, and it was our turn to start singing, and I started to sing. And in front of the entire choir, she stopped playing the piano, signed a piano piano cover down, looked directly at me, and she told me, Terrence Lee, you need to stop singing right now. In a very aggressive tone in front of all the kids in the choir. And it was it's pretty traumatic, if I'm honest. And that really was a turning point for me.

Terrance Lee [00:03:51]:
After that day, I was no longer the kid that was talking a lot. We'd just pretty much be in the back of the class, who never raised my hand. I never really wanted to believe anything or speak up much at all. And that carried into my middle school years, my high school years. Even when I graduated college and first got in my career, I found myself as a engineer, and I, you know, have these ideas I'd wanna bring up in meetings, and I just wouldn't say them. I would keep my thoughts to myself. And I I didn't make the connection that it was back to that moment when I was 13. And, eventually, I was, what I say, kind of forced into leadership because my mentor at the time put in his 2 week notice, and there was a very good presentation coming up in front of a lot of the engineers and the pilots that we were doing designs for.

Terrance Lee [00:04:41]:
And so I was the one that was told I was gonna do that presentation, and I was not ready at all. I was super nervous, but I did the presentation, and, surprisingly, it went really well. And that day was a turning point for me. So after that day, people started to tell me that they saw leadership potential in me. I began to get leadership opportunities within my role at that company. I then went to another aerospace company, got more leadership opportunities there. And today, I'm an associate director at an aerospace defense company here in the McKinney, Texas area. So I say all that to say, I I like to tell people the story because I consider myself to be someone that really doubted myself.

Terrance Lee [00:05:24]:
I really thought that my introversion and my nature of being was holding me back. And what I ended up learning was I learned how to really use my introversion to a strength and a power. So that's my story, and that's why I'm here.

David Hall [00:05:40]:
Yeah. A couple of things. Wow. Thank you for sharing your story, and that's that's terrible what happened in choir. That's that's that's I'm sorry for that. And then how long were you on the job before you had to give this presentation?

Terrance Lee [00:05:53]:
Not long at all. So I started in June of 2,005, and I was under my mentor for about 10 months. And he gave his notice, and it was completely unexpected. He was a very, very sharp guy. I mean, very sharp, newest, and he put in his notice, and I had about 2 weeks to get ready for this presentation. So, you know, imagine a kid fresh out of college that's having to present some other technical information, and on top of that, is not fond of public speaking, does not like talking in front of people at all. So that was really an interesting scenario, but it worked out well, and it really was a turn.

David Hall [00:06:36]:
Yeah. And you do plenty of public speaking now. Right?

Terrance Lee [00:06:39]:
Absolutely. Right.

David Hall [00:06:41]:
Yeah. I love how you say that you learned to embrace your introverted gifts. When was it that you put your finger on that, you know, the term introversion? And then how did you embrace it?

Terrance Lee [00:06:53]:
Great question. You know what's interesting about it is for so long, I didn't know what introversion or extroversion really meant. I just knew that in certain situations, if I was around groups of people for too long, I would wanna break away. I knew that I was more productive when I was working by myself instead of in large groups. There were all of these things that I knew about myself, but I didn't know what to call it, or I didn't know what any of it meant. And to be honest, when I started writing the book, Quiet Voice for This Leader, you know, this was in the late 2020 time frame when I thought about the book, came up with it, it was really around that time, that year, that I began to understand what introversion really meant. So, I mean, it took a while. For a long time, I didn't really associate how I was with that term, introvert.

Terrance Lee [00:07:44]:
So it took a while.

David Hall [00:07:45]:
What was the turning point? Like, when did you say, yeah, this is a good thing?

Terrance Lee [00:07:50]:
Another great question. I think that as I was writing the book and reflecting on my leadership journey and reflecting on how I was able to use a lot of introvert strengths to my advantage, things like being able to observe, being a very strong observer, being an active listener, being a deep thinker. I think when I began to look back, it was like, oh, I I naturally do a lot of this stuff. I really embraced it at that point. So, really, when I was writing the book, that's where a lot of the concept for the book came from, was just reflecting on, wow, I've been able to use introversion to my advantage. And Yeah. That really leaned into it.

David Hall [00:08:32]:
Yeah. And the the last thing you said reflecting, that's a superpower that we have. You know? So deep thinking and being reflective. And we can all you know, we have these gifts and we just need to learn how to use them.

Terrance Lee [00:08:45]:
Absolutely.

David Hall [00:08:46]:
Yeah. And, you know, we talk about strength, so we're talking about strengths of introverts here. And we bust miss. I can't remember what myth you busted the last time, but you have one in your head right now with the introversion that you wanted to spell?

Terrance Lee [00:08:59]:
Oh, yes. Absolutely. I I love busting the introvert myths that people have out there. I think one of the more common ones so especially, like, in corporate or business settings, what happens is people are in a room, and a lot of it is really about adding value. Right? So, you know, someone is sitting in a meeting or sitting in a room. If someone is there and doesn't really say anything or there's a lot of dialogue going on and they're kinda sitting back not speaking, I think one big myth out there is that that person is quiet or they essentially don't have any value to add. Right? And the people that are dominating the conversation doing the most talking, people would look at them and assume that's the leader in the room or that these people are adding the most value. And I think a very big misconception of that is that oftentimes, for someone that's an introvert, it may be that we're sitting there, and we have a lot to add to the conversation.

Terrance Lee [00:09:55]:
We have the most value to add. We're just sitting there thinking. We're thinking about what we have to say. We're processing our thoughts. We're listening to other people speak. And then when we do insert what we have to say, it's gonna be very well thought out and it's gonna be a good input. It just may take us a minute to process our thoughts and get that out. So I think just the myth that introverts are quiet or, you know, shy, don't have anything to add.

Terrance Lee [00:10:22]:
I just I I don't like when I hear those things because I know not just myself, but so many fellow introverts that I've worked with that are the same way. And we speak up. People listen, and people are amazed at some of the input that we get.

David Hall [00:10:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a great one. And people say there's a myth, you know, along those lines that we don't have anything to say, but we have a lot to say because we're always thinking, you know, our minds are always going and it's just a matter of we're not sharing everything. We're putting together what we think is most important and where extroverts are often thinking out loud. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just different. But because of that, there's a perception like you're saying that we don't have anything to say, but it's just a matter of we do, but we're just not saying everything We're thinking, okay, what do I want to share here? What's the key message I want to say? And that can be misperceived.

Terrance Lee [00:11:18]:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

David Hall [00:11:19]:
Do you have any advice along those lines as far as getting prepared to speak up for a meeting or that kind of thing?

Terrance Lee [00:11:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So I think one of the first things, and I dealt with this for a long time. I dealt with what I would just call, like, imposter syndrome or self doubt where I would be in rooms, and I would think that the people that were talking the most, that they deserve to be there, that, you know, they deserve to talk more. And what I had to say didn't matter as much. Or I may actually think what I had to say mattered, but just having the courage to speak up and say it. Right? Like, there was a certain roadblock there.

Terrance Lee [00:11:59]:
So I think the first thing is getting through the mental roadblocks that may be there for some people if they feel that way. You know, the first thing is to realize that your words matter. I think that's the very first thing and that you absolutely deserve to be in the room or on the phone call or whatever the situation is. I think that's the very first step. And then one of the other things that happens is when people, I think, are dominating a conversation, oftentimes, extroverts that are going back and forth in these rooms as the introverted time trying to figure out how to get our words in, or we're trying to figure out how to how to jump into that. And one thing that I say there is one thing I do is I take notes, like, as a conversation's going on because we think very deeply sometimes. There will be a point that somebody makes, and I don't wanna forget my thought. So I'll actually write down the thing that I was thinking, and I'm just kinda taking mental notes.

Terrance Lee [00:12:56]:
So I'm listening to what people are saying. I'm letting them talk. I'm letting them go, but I'm taking notes about the things that I wanna add and wanna say. And I do that because, again, as introverts, sometimes we can overthink or think very deeply. Our mind can go in different directions, so I don't wanna, like, forget that point. And so when the moment comes for me to interject, then, you know, I have my notes, and I kinda know where I'm going. That's something that's been very helpful for me. I think it starts with just knowing that your words matter and getting that input in and then just making sure that when you do give the input, you kinda have it laid out, what you're looking to say.

David Hall [00:13:34]:
Yeah. That's great. And sometimes you might be in a meeting and you get like, you're saying you get an idea, you know, and maybe it's not even related, but somebody says something and you're like, yeah, I I need to make that point here. Or it might just be something that you need for later. So definitely capturing our ideas as another really important thing for us introverts because we do have a lot of ideas.

Terrance Lee [00:13:56]:
For sure. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of

David Hall [00:13:59]:
Alright, Terrence. We're gonna get into your second book, but first, tell us a little bit more about your first book, and I'm gonna read the title. So what is the main message of your first book, Quiet Voice, Fearless Leader, 10 Principles for Introverts to Awaken the Leader Inside?

Terrance Lee [00:14:13]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So the way that I view my writing is I want every book to have a core theme. And so what I would say for Quiet was fearless leader, the core theme of the book really was that introversion is a super problem because I know there are so many introverts that were probably like me at some point. They either were like me or they may still, you know, be that way now listening to this, where they viewed their introversion as a crutch, or they viewed it as something that was holding them back from being successful or getting to the next level. And I really wanted to drive home the point that introversion is a superpower and give specific examples of why it is. And on top of that, specifically giving a base for leadership. So ten core principles for introverts as leaders.

Terrance Lee [00:15:03]:
And so that's really what it was about was, you know, hey. Introversion is your superpower, and here are reasons why, and here are 10 core principles and leadership to help you to lead teams effectively and lead teams well. So that's really what it was about.

David Hall [00:15:18]:
Okay. So what makes a great leader?

Terrance Lee [00:15:22]:
Great question. Loaded question as well.

David Hall [00:15:25]:
Yeah.

Terrance Lee [00:15:26]:
I think there are so many you know, you could ask probably 10 people that question and get, like, 10 different answers. And I think, for me, a lot of it is poise. A lot of it is the way that the leader acts, the rest of the team is gonna act that way as well is the way that I view it. And so I think as a leader, it's very important that someone is very poised. Someone is very confident. And a lot of these things, again, I used to associate with extrovert and for some reason. And it turns out that a lot of this is associated more so with introverts. There are so many amazing introvert leaders out there.

Terrance Lee [00:16:07]:
And so I think that someone that's able to have a level head, someone that's able to make good decisions, someone that has empathy for their team and the people they work with. For me, you know, those are the traits of a good leader. I don't necessarily view a good leader in the way that I used to, which was the loudest person in the room or the person that talked the most or the person that was most dominant in a conversation. I don't necessarily associate that with leadership. Not to say that, you know, a leader does need to speak up at times. Right? A leader does need to be vocal. So not saying that, but just what I used to be leadership as is completely different now from how it was back

David Hall [00:16:47]:
then. Yeah. There's another myth right there that the the great leader has to be large and in charge and, you know, and and the other part of it is that the myth that when people say introverts can't be great leaders and to us, that's ridiculous because we know that that's not true. And that's why we're talking today. So one thing I do say though, when it comes to leadership or other aspects of our lives, sometimes our approach is going to be different. So like with leadership, I can be an amazing leader as an introvert, but my approach, there might be some things that I do a little bit differently than an extroverted colleague. What strategies would you say might be different for introverts versus an extrovert?

Terrance Lee [00:17:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So I think that knowing what your strengths are as an introvert are very key. So for example, for me, and I'll just I'll make it personal. I think that I do very well in 1 on 1 conversations as opposed to necessarily group conversations. Now I can have a conversation in a team meeting. You know, don't get me wrong.

Terrance Lee [00:17:53]:
I can have conversations on calls and in meetings with the team. I do that all the time. But a lot of my best work and my most productive conversations, I've noticed, are when it's a one on one type of interaction. And a lot of introverts are are the same way. And so I think that knowing what works for you as an introvert and as a leader. The other thing is working alone versus working in large groups. A lot of central groups because of our need to recharge and the fact that being around too many people for too long can be draining, oftentimes, we're more productive when we're working to ourselves. And for me, I find that to be true.

Terrance Lee [00:18:31]:
I think I get a lot done when I'm able to have that alone time to really focus and hone in on my thoughts. So, again, I can work in groups. I'm gonna say that I can't, but I think it starts with knowing yourself and knowing kinda what makes you tick and what works best for you. And for a lot of introverts, I think when we're able to work alone and remain focused, that really helps out.

David Hall [00:18:55]:
Yeah. No. We absolutely there's a balance there. You know? And it's it's not just about recharge. You know, we do need time to recharge after certain things, but we need some time to be strategic, to get some work done, to think about things. And we need both. And we absolutely thrive in 1 on 1 or maybe smaller groups. And it's not that you can't lead a big team meeting because I'm sure you've done it plenty of times.

David Hall [00:19:19]:
You can. You might bring some introverted strategies into doing that, but it is good to know. You know what? And you just have to think about, alright, this particular meeting, it'll be really good to get this one person, you know, and just chat with them 1 on 1 kind of thing. But just have to bring your strategy, but it's probably going to be from an introverted perspective.

Terrance Lee [00:19:40]:
Yeah, absolutely.

David Hall [00:19:41]:
So for introverts that lack confidence, what would you say are some keys to gaining confidence as an introverted leader?

Terrance Lee [00:19:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. So good question. I I will I wanna start with this. I think that for sure, you can be an introvert and naturally have confidence. Because I I do think that one thing that I used to think for a while was I just assumed that being an introvert meant that you you lack confidence. You know? I just I didn't associate the word introvert with confidence. And the reality is, you know, someone is listening to this, and they just assume, oh, well, I'm an introvert.

Terrance Lee [00:20:17]:
It means I'm not confident. Or, you know, there's no research. And I've I've been doing a lot of research into introversion and extroversion personality types past few years, and there's no research that suggests being an introvert. It means you lack confidence. So I just I wanna start there.

David Hall [00:20:34]:
Right.

Terrance Lee [00:20:34]:
Being an introvert does not mean you, you know, don't feel confident. Now saying that, I will say this. For me, I did lack confidence for a long time. I lacked confidence in terms of speaking in front of people. I lacked confidence in terms of just self doubt, certain things I had mentally going on. But a lot of that actually stemmed back to the situation with the choir director from when I was 13. Right? So it wasn't that it was because I was an introvert. It's because I had a traumatic experience, and it impacted me.

Terrance Lee [00:21:04]:
So for people, you know, to your question that are introverts that may be struggling with confidence, I would first start with knowing who you are. So think about, well, who am I? What makes me tick? Right? What do I enjoy doing? What do I not enjoy doing? Like, kind of knowing really your center of who you are. I think that's very important. And then I think the next thing is to recognize what I like to call just negative self talk. Like, what is some of the negative self talk? If you're lacking confidence, what are the things that you might be saying to yourself or the thoughts that enter your head that cause you to not feel confident? Like, identifying those and pointing those out. So for me, a lot of it was when I was about to lead a meeting or present or speak in front of a group of people, there would be this voice. And, you know, it was just like, you're not ready for this. You can't do this.

Terrance Lee [00:22:03]:
You're nervous. Like, there were these, literally, these thoughts I would have. And I had to stop at one point and think to myself, where is this coming from? And is all this even true? You know? And turned out, no, it wasn't true. It it was, you know, doubts that I was putting in my head. So I think pointing those things out and realizing what are the thoughts or the things you might be saying to yourself that are holding you back and then flipping those with positive thoughts and positive words. So starting to say things like, I'm the best speaker in the room. It's something that I started saying myself several years ago whenever I had a big presentation at work. And it it might sound silly to do something like that, but it really made a huge difference for me.

Terrance Lee [00:22:46]:
So, you know, anyone listening to this that might be struggling with confidence as an I would say to come up with a a power phrase. Come up with something that when you say it or think it, it makes you feel empowered and makes you feel confident. Those things make a big difference.

David Hall [00:23:02]:
Absolutely. And, yeah, there are introverts out there that have been confident their whole lives. It wasn't me. Okay. That wasn't me. But I know some really confident and outspoken introverts. And sometimes of course, people that have the misconception that introversion means shyness or lack of confidence might not count them in the introvert group. What we're talking about today.

David Hall [00:23:29]:
Terrence, just knowing, Hey, this introversion, it's a great thing. I have some needs, but I have some great strengths and that gave me confidence right there. And so anybody that's lacking confidence, you give some great advice. They can gain it. Absolutely. But part of it might be stemming from really knowing who you are and whether you're an introvert or extrovert and what your gifts are.

Terrance Lee [00:23:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so many people don't know. You know, a lot of people, I think, we kinda go through life. But once you start to realize, oh, okay. Well, yeah, I'm an introvert, and this is what that means. These are the great things about it, and accept it. I mean, that that really helps with confidence.

David Hall [00:24:06]:
Yeah. Okay. So your your next book is coming out soon. Let's get into that. The calm effect, 5 keys for introverts to succeed without stress and lead with poise. That sounds great.

Terrance Lee [00:24:18]:
Yeah. Appreciate it.

David Hall [00:24:19]:
So what are the 5 keys?

Terrance Lee [00:24:21]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So this book, you know, it's interesting. For years, I've had a lot of people that I work with and have done business with. And, you know, they'll say things like, Terrence, you're so calm. You know? How are you so calm? And I wanted to put some of those keys into a book because I realized that, you know, when I wrote Quiet Voice for this leader, that that was kind of, you know, the base of leadership. Right? And these are keys to grow as an introvert, as a leader. I wanted to get into specific tips from a stance of intentional comments and being able to practice intentional comments in leadership and what are the benefits of doing that.

Terrance Lee [00:25:01]:
So the 5 keys, the first key is poise. So I spoke about that a little bit earlier, but just how to develop poise and the importance of developing poise and having that as a leader. The next key is patience. So a lot of people in conversations and even just with actions and work are very quick to act and very quick to speak. Well, there's actually a lot that comes when we're able to be patient, and we just notice certain things and we catch things that other other people are missing. So we talk a lot about that in the second chapter. The second key is observation, which is something that a lot of introverts are naturally good at. So we talk about specific things to observe as a leader.

Terrance Lee [00:25:43]:
And when you do that, the things you're able to pick up on and help your team with. The 4th is connection. So with that, we're now talking about the ability to connect deeply with people. It's funny that so many people associate introversion with, like, not wanting to talk to people or being to ourselves and things like that. But in actuality, we typically connect the best good people because we're actively listening. They're really into what they're saying. And so we talk about just as leaders how we can really connect with our teammates and connect with other people. And then the last key is relaxation.

Terrance Lee [00:26:19]:
You know, we oftentimes introverts can overthink or, you know, we're just in situations where we're go we're all just go, go, go all the time, or we're around people a lot, And so the need to recharge, the need to relax, like, the way that that helps us as introverts is, what we get into in the last chapter. So little bit of a different angle from quiet voice fearless leader, and I'm really excited about it. And, you know, really, the goal is any introverts out there that may feel anxious about their introversion or may overthink or, you know, feel stressed about situations. Just helping them to change that perspective and really walk in intentional calmness.

David Hall [00:26:56]:
Yeah. Looking forward to it.

Terrance Lee [00:26:57]:
Appreciate it.

David Hall [00:26:58]:
So just overall, what's the benefit of having a calm leader?

Terrance Lee [00:27:03]:
Great question. Great question. So, you know, again, I think that so much in leadership, it really flows down through the rest of the team. You know? So however things are in the top of an organization, the attitude, the demeanor, all of that flows through the rest of the organization. And so I've seen situations throughout my career where there were leaders that were not calm. I've worked with some leaders that were very erratic, were very reactive, some that at times we just flat out get angry. I've seen a wide range of different styles of leadership. And the benefits of having a calm leader, I believe, is that when you're calm and you're poised, you're able to connect with people, you're able to observe situations and help people in different scenarios, then that flows through the rest of the organization.

Terrance Lee [00:27:57]:
So now everyone looks at the leader, and they realize, oh, everything is going wrong right now. We missed some delivery or something happened and things are wrong. But this leader still seems calm. This leader still seems like they have it all together. I guess I can also be calm. Right? When the leader is running around with their hair on fire or, you know, confused and things like that, that flows through the rest of the organization. So I think there are so many benefits. A lot of them are intangible, but so much is there when someone leads a team with a condominium.

David Hall [00:28:30]:
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it's gonna be alright. You know? Definitely, I I know the benefit of being calm, but do you ever have to let people know, hey. I'm calm. This is gonna be okay, but I am concerned about this particular issue?

Terrance Lee [00:28:43]:
Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's one of the things too. And I say that at the beginning of the book is that I don't want anyone to think that the calm effect and the whole concept of it in any way means that you are never concerned or you never are gonna have issues. Right? Because the reality is things are gonna go wrong. There are gonna be issues. There are gonna be times and days where things are just hard.

Terrance Lee [00:29:09]:
Right? I mean, it's gonna happen. So it doesn't mean that the calm effect is this life with perfection where you're never worried about things. But what it does mean is it gives you a different approach for when those times happen. And so, yeah, for sure, you know, when things go wrong, there have been times even recently with the team that I work with when I've had to admit like, hey, guys. I don't have the answer right now. I'm really gonna have to go and ask the conversations and figure some things out. I actually think in a way, the team appreciates that when they see that their leader isn't necessarily they don't always have it all figured out. They don't know everything.

Terrance Lee [00:29:47]:
Right? It makes it where you're a little more transparent, and I think that's okay.

David Hall [00:29:52]:
Yeah. So I know in your latest book, you talk about overthinking, and we chatted a bit before we hit record. I think introverts actually tend to be a little more prone to overthinking because we're tuned into our minds more often than not. So what are some tips for introverts that are overthinking?

Terrance Lee [00:30:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. Great one. And I will admit as I answer this that I'm an overthinker myself. So this is one that I continue to work through, so for sure. So I think that you know, a few tips. So one thing is realizing that it's okay to not be perfect. I think that as introverts, a lot of times, our overthinking can come because we're working on something or we have some task, and we're trying to make sure that everything about that thing, we just get it all right.

Terrance Lee [00:30:41]:
Right? Like, we don't want there to be any mistakes. We're thinking about what could go wrong, and that can lead us down the path of overthinking. You know? And, ultimately, it's okay sometimes to not have the perfect solution. As long as we're doing our best, as long as we're putting our best foot forward, then that's really all we can do. You know? And if things don't turn out perfect or don't go completely the way that we want, that's okay. And so there's a certain level of acceptance that I think we have to have with that. The other thing too with overthinking is that to just kind of realize that it wastes a lot of time sometimes. Because I know for me, the things that I'll overthink about sometimes, it's scenarios that are literally never gonna happen or scenarios that the chance of it happening is so slim that I shouldn't be worried about it, but I'll still worry if about it.

Terrance Lee [00:31:33]:
So for everyone you know, anyone listening to this, if that's you, I would say to just, you know, realize that when we think through some of these scenarios, it really wastes a lot of our time and energy. And, you know, ultimately, we don't wanna do that. It's not always gonna be the worst case scenario. Things aren't always gonna go the way that we're thinking. Just realize that it can be a waste of time if it doesn't benefit us.

David Hall [00:31:56]:
Yeah. So many things I think we overthink about never happen. You know? It's just like you're saying, it's a waste of time.

Terrance Lee [00:32:04]:
Exactly.

David Hall [00:32:05]:
So it's really about we have to change our thoughts around whatever we're overthinking about. Right?

Terrance Lee [00:32:11]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, what is the thing that we're overthinking about? How is it benefiting us to think about it? You know? Is it really benefiting? And in some cases, like, you know, if we have some big project or something that's very important and we need to think deeply about that thing, then that's that's different. Right? You know, we that's just our putting our thoughts into something. But I think if we're overthinking about some scenario that, you know, we'd either made up or it's something that doesn't benefit us, then you ever need to let that go.

David Hall [00:32:43]:
Alright. Well, Terrence, in addition to being an author and a lot of other things, you also have a podcast. Tell us about the introvert experience podcast.

Terrance Lee [00:32:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So the introvert experience, formerly called Quiet Voice Fearless Mind, is a podcast where I'm just talking about all things introversion. I have changed the format quite a bit since I did Quiet Voice, Fearless Mind, so, the episodes are shorter. I'm also not doing much editing, so it's really me ranting about different topic, kind of giving my thoughts on it. And, it's really been nice. It's, you know, really helped with my kind of just time management and things that I'm doing, and I really think people enjoy it because it's really just kinda stream of consciousness and talking about topics that introverts carry now.

David Hall [00:33:33]:
Alright. What's a couple examples of topics that you have had on your show or you wanna have on your show?

Terrance Lee [00:33:40]:
Yeah. Great question. So one that I just recorded actually is about introversion and HSP or highly sensitive people. Because one thing that I was curious about was, are introverts, you know, naturally highly sensitive or are extroverts highly sensitive? So I did some research into that, and I had an episode on that topic. I also talked in one episode about calmness, you know, kind of going back to the calm effect. And are introverts more calm or extroverts more calm? Or, you know, is calmness tied to a personality type or not? You know? So that's just an example. But, yeah, there there will be several others. Those are just a few that are recently reported.

David Hall [00:34:21]:
Okay. Are you a highly sensitive person?

Terrance Lee [00:34:24]:
Yes.

David Hall [00:34:25]:
Okay.

Terrance Lee [00:34:26]:
I didn't realize it. But recently, as I've started to understand what it means, I'd say I definitely fit the, criteria for it.

David Hall [00:34:34]:
Yeah. And I mean so I'm not. I don't know why. You know? I don't know why we're all created a little differently, but I've had a lot of guests on talking about it being a highly sensitive person or I'm also not an empath. But it's so important to have the conversation because it's not just about, you know, my gifts and strengths. It's everybody says if I'm very self aware, but nobody else is self aware, that's not going to help. We really need to all get together and talk about how we complement each other with strengths and gifts. And I love that that's part of your your podcast talking about, you know, different personalities and different personality traits.

Terrance Lee [00:35:11]:
For sure. Yeah. I appreciate it. And it's yeah. It's all it's learning. You know? There's so much out there to learn, and there's a lot that I don't know. And that's why I like to talk about it because, yeah, I just wanna continue to learn more and try to help people.

David Hall [00:35:24]:
Yeah. So, you know, just thinking about all this leads to my next question because, like, again, you're an author. You have a podcast. You have a full time job, maybe more than a full time job, your family, and you put a lot of content out on social media. So what's your tips for that introvert as far as time management from an introvert perspective?

Terrance Lee [00:35:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's tough. I'm not gonna lie. It's tough, but I am in a much better space with it now than I was before. So recharging is very important, I think, for rain, Traverse, especially. And last year, I didn't feel like I I did that. I really felt like I was just nonstop on go with no pause, and it it was difficult.

Terrance Lee [00:36:13]:
It was. And so as far as tips, I'll say that one thing that I had to do last year is I did step back from my podcast August of last year, and I just had to figure out what made the most sense for me. So I think for anyone listening to this, if you feel overwhelmed or you feel like you just have too much going on, you're trying to figure out how to manage your time, it's really just taking a step back and looking at all the things on your plate. And some things you may have to let go. Or some things, it may not be about letting it go. It may be, how can I do this smarter? Or how can I do this where it takes less time? You know, the thing that takes me an hour every day to do, how can I do it in 20 minutes? You know, like those little small steps. And the more that I began to do that, the more that I was able to free more time up. You know? So for me, it's things like if I'm doing content for my week, I'll just take 30 minutes, and I'll literally record videos for the entire week in 30 minutes as opposed to I'm trying to record something every day.

Terrance Lee [00:37:19]:
You know? That might sound small, but that's that that little tweak made a huge difference for me. With my podcast, I've changed the format of it. With my editing and things, it'll take me as long. With my writing, I've changed my style of writing. I don't put as much pressure on myself to write as much every single day as I was before. Now if I'm inspired to write, I write. If I'm not, I don't write. It might sound simple, but it actually has really taken a lot of pressure off.

Terrance Lee [00:37:48]:
So just all of those things, I'd say, in terms of tips is just, you know, stepping back and looking at everything on your plate and making sure that you're not overdoing it, that you're leaving self leaving time for yourself to recharge, time for yourself to rest, and just doing things smarter instead of taking too much time.

David Hall [00:38:10]:
Yeah. And that's definitely a strategy that I've come up with is that you can't do everything, you know, and I think we both have tried. You know? You can't. You have to really prioritize. Do you have a process where you take time to reflect and prioritize, or how do you do that?

Terrance Lee [00:38:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So for me, what's pretty nice is, like, every other Friday, you know, I don't work my full time job every other Friday. So that's kind of a day to really reflect. That's my day to, you know I basically plan out my next week and a half. You know, I sit down. I have my calendar.

Terrance Lee [00:38:45]:
I have a whiteboard. And all the things I wanna get done in the next week and a half, I just I plan it out. And that's helped a lot because I'm really able to prioritize. I also am able to identify the things that I don't need to do, the things on my to do list that I look at it and I say, you know what? I don't really need to do that. I'm just gonna scratch that off. You know? And that just bought me 30 minutes or, you know, that's scratching that thing off. It might have bought me a few hours. Right? So I think just taking the time to do that is really important.

David Hall [00:39:19]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And you're doing that in solitude. Right? It's an important part of your strategy is giving yourself some time to think.

Terrance Lee [00:39:26]:
Absolutely. Yeah. Much needed.

David Hall [00:39:29]:
And then the other thing, of course, we need quiet time for many things, you know, time to be strategic like we're talking about or reflection or get some work done. But one thing that you mentioned that we've been talking about, you also need time to recharge. So in addition to your every other Friday, where how do you recharge? Where do you find your quiet time as an introverted leader?

Terrance Lee [00:39:49]:
Yeah. So for me, a lot of my, I would say, in resharting and this probably sound a little counterintuitive because some people would hear this, and they would say, oh, well, you're working. But when I'm writing, because I love writing so much, a lot of my recharging comes when I'm able to take my laptop and go somewhere with, like, a lake or somewhere in nature or something and sit down to myself and just write. That is one of my favorite things to do. So when I get a chance to do that, that is just that really helps me. And so I try to consistently do that or just go to a coffee shop and write or, you know, something like that or, you know, go for a run. I mean, I have a lot of different types of things that I do whenever I wanna recharge.

David Hall [00:40:35]:
Yeah. And I'm really glad you said that because sometimes when I'm talking about recharge, people might think, well, he's taking a break, you know, when's he getting his work done? But sometimes, you know, especially if you're working for somebody else, sometimes it is a matter of maybe you had a really stressful meeting or something, and you need to recharge after maybe you're not taking a break, so to speak, but you're working quietly and that could be recharging. And it it is relaxing. So, you know, again, going for a run or getting away and and not doing work is is awesome. But sometimes throughout the day, we might just be doing some quiet work that's recharging.

Terrance Lee [00:41:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

David Hall [00:41:14]:
Alright, Terrence. We've talked about a lot of great things today. Is there anything that we missed that you wanna add?

Terrance Lee [00:41:20]:
No. No. This is great. This is great. You know, one thing that I will say is that if anyone wants to get the first chapter of the upcoming book, the calm effect for free, that's available. I have a site for that. So, you know, I'm sure I'll, you know, send that link, and we'll have that in the show notes. And I'd love anyone that's interested to, get that first chapter, and, you can get that for free.

Terrance Lee [00:41:40]:
And then, yeah, definitely looking forward to the book and hopefully hearing feedback from some of your listeners.

David Hall [00:41:47]:
Awesome. And so, yeah, I will put that in the show notes. But just in general, when's where's the best place for people to find out more about your work and and the great work that you're doing?

Terrance Lee [00:41:57]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So people can follow me on Instagram, at the introvert leader, and, also subscribe to my YouTube at the introvert leader. That's where I'm the most active.

David Hall [00:42:08]:
Sounds great. Again, Terrence, it's good to have you back on the podcast. And, we'll definitely have to look forward to book number 3 after this and have you back again. So great to see you.

Terrance Lee [00:42:19]:
Yeah. It's great to see you. This was a lot of fun. I appreciate you having me

David Hall [00:42:23]:
on. Alright. Take care. Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out at david@kawaiandstrong.com or check out the kawaiandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media channels. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. If you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there's now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website.

David Hall [00:42:49]:
This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the 4 letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link to the show notes. So many great things about being an introvert, and we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs, and be strong.