Ep 179 - Empowering Introverts: Self-Advocacy and Unique Strengths guest Eilis Wasserman

Have you ever wondered how to harness your introverted strengths and truly advocate for yourself in both personal and professional settings? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, guest Eilis Wasserman, a career and leadership coach, joins host David Hall to unravel the unique advantages that introverts naturally possess.

Listeners will gain insights into the power of asking meaningful questions, the importance of self-reflection to uncover unique strengths, and strategies for effective self-advocacy. David and Eilis both share their personal journeys, emphasizing the value of preparing stories ahead of time and building confidence by genuinely owning one's introverted nature.

Key takeaways include:
- Reframing networking as making meaningful connections
- The prevalence of introverts in successful public speaking and leadership roles
- Practical advice for introverts on how to be assertive and change limiting beliefs

Tune in to discover actionable strategies and encouraging perspectives that will help you thrive as an introvert. Embrace your strengths, advocate for yourself, and be strong!

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/179
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Eilis Wasserman is a career & leadership coach dedicated to cultivating confidence and inspiring self-discovery. She is an introvert advocate, empowering introverts to hone their unique strengths and develop their own career stories. She is from the Great Lakes region and has a decade of coaching experience, working with individuals from all industries, especially recent grads, early career to mid-career professionals and of course, introverts. Eilis believes the most valuable skill that you can learn and practice is the art of connecting- introverts can shine at networking- it's all about telling our story, not selling ourselves. Eilis is a freelance coach on The Muse and currently works as a Program Manager & Facilitator at Shafer Leadership Academy in Muncie, Indiana. Eilis looks forward to working with you to present your best self wherever you may be in your career journey!

Connect with Eilis: LinkedIn

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
Gobio.link/quietandstrong
david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Transcript

Eilis Wasserman [00:00:00]:
Knowing that introverts do have strengths is is often the first thing that I'll talk with individuals about because they might not see it as as a positive attribute. But once you do, how do you discover your strengths? 1 thing that I really like to think about is how can you reflect upon a recent past time where you felt energized in the way that you feel energized as an introvert, which we know is different for an extrovert. And so think about that past time where you felt that energy, and what was that story? And through that, what skills were you utilizing during this time that you were energized?

David Hall [00:00:53]:
Hello, and welcome to episode 179 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandsstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we'll learn each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show.

David Hall [00:01:20]:
Tell a friend about the podcast. Help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Eilish Wasserman is a career and leadership coach dedicated to cultivating confidence and inspiring self discovery. She's an introvert advocate, empowering introverts to hone their unique strengths and develop their own career stories. She is from the Great Lakes area and has a deck and has a decade of coaching experience working with individuals from all industries, especially recent grads, early career to mid career to mid career professionals, and, of course, introverts. Aylish believes the most valuable skill that you can learn and practice is the art of connecting. Introverts can shine at networking. It's all about our story, not selling ourselves.

David Hall [00:02:10]:
Ailish is a freelance coach on the muse and currently works as a program manager and facilitator at Shaffer Leadership Academy in Muncie, Indiana. Aylus looks forward to working with you to present your best self wherever you may be in your career journey. Alright. Well, Aylis, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. It's so good to have you on today.

Eilis Wasserman [00:02:33]:
Yes. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here, fellow introvert.

David Hall [00:02:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And we're definitely talking about that before we hit record. It's great to have conversations with fellow introverts. We're gonna get into the work that you do, but first, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey through being an introvert and now coaching other introverts.

Eilis Wasserman [00:02:55]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you, David. So, you know, I think about my journey through introversion as really, how can I empower introverts? And that really started when I was working at, a university in higher education, and I know we have we share similarities there, and, you know, I was a career adviser providing advice to students and thinking about how they're gonna enter the workplace, and I was noticing, you know, some students interact and have, of course, a different temperament than other students and, you know, being challenged with a workplace that really focuses on that extrovert ideal and expectation. And so when we think about the hiring processes and, you know, recruiting practices and students networking and interviewing, I could see that was a bit more of a challenge for my introverted students to navigate, and so that's really where it was most relevant to me and and came up for me. And, you know, 1 thing that I think about in this journey through introversion, I think about those, you know, ways that x the extrovert expectation really shows up in society is I was thinking about this concept of icebreakers. Right? And so I just want to bring that up really briefly because we even think about the term icebreaker, David. It's like it's it seems kind of harsh, like, okay.

Eilis Wasserman [00:04:27]:
We're breaking the ice, and, you know, when we think about introducing ourselves in the workplace and if, you know, if you're with a group of people and they say, okay, we're gonna go around the circle and introduce ourselves, as an introvert, I don't know about you, but that kind of makes me feel, okay. Wow. I feel like I'm put on the spot here. And and so I started to think about these practices, these things that that come up as we think about the workplace. And so maybe instead instead of an icebreaker, we can call that a warm up. Right? And and so the very first thing that I did as a coach when I started really getting involved with thinking about introversion was I created a workshop, and so we kind of talked about this icebreaker myth, and I created a introvert friendly, you know, warm up instead of icebreaker.

David Hall [00:05:23]:
Yeah. I love that. People don't understand that we're deep thinkers, and often we're not coming up with something right away. And so maybe it's like, you know what? I I just really can't think of my greatest accomplishments off the top of my head. You know? And and and I I feel really weird about that. Of course, there's things that we could do about that. You know? But on the other side, the other thing that we can do, I love what you're saying is have the introvert in mind and come up with some introvert friendly ways instead of trying the introvert always having to adjust to the other way that's it's not as natural for and that kind of thing.

Eilis Wasserman [00:05:59]:
Yes. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. And I I really think that, you know, when I when I think about my journey through introversion as well, I I can't really miss sharing this that, as I'm sure you know, Susan Cain's book Quiet was really a foundation for me when I think about all these things. So that's something I wanted to mention

David Hall [00:06:19]:
as well. Yeah. So when you picked up that book, did you know you were an introvert, or what made you pick up the book?

Eilis Wasserman [00:06:26]:
Yeah. That's that's a good question. I feel III didn't know that I was an introvert at that point, but I was just very curious about what introversion truly means, what, you know and and and Susan talks about, you know, in a world that cannot stop talking. Right? Like, how how have introverts, through time, experienced life in the workplace? Because, you know, she really has expansive history and goes really in-depth, so I was just really interested to dive, deeper into that.

David Hall [00:06:59]:
Yeah. Especially with what you know now, had introversion been a struggle for you not understanding it? Was that part of your journey?

Eilis Wasserman [00:07:07]:
I think for me, it wasn't as much as a struggle of understanding it, but just really getting to know more of the the why and so that I could really empower others. I think I felt pretty comfortable and, you know, just understanding how to, again, help others embrace it and, like, oh, like, the 1 thing I'm gonna I was I was telling you earlier, the 1 thing I feel like I'm gonna say a lot during our our talk today is how can you own your introversion? And so and and that's not to say that that was an easy process for me necessarily, but I felt like I'm a very intuitive individual. And so being able to understand that for myself, I think I was able to do that early on, but to actually explain that and help empower others, that's that's what I really kind of catapulted into.

David Hall [00:08:08]:
I love that. And I love that you shared that because I wanna make this clear that not all introverts struggle, and I did. And many of my guests say, I felt like something was wrong with me, but not everybody feels that way. You know? Some people understand who they are from the beginning, and that's that's amazing. But I like how you are understanding it to especially help other people. And then there's some people and a lot of the reason why I do this show, there's some people who are still struggling and are not understanding their natural gifts and how to get the most out of those by honoring their needs and that type of thing.

Eilis Wasserman [00:08:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And 1 thing I do wanna share when I think about, you know, my discovery of myself as an introvert, 1 thing I wanted to make sure to bring up is really this concept, and it's almost like a metaphor, but thinking of myself as a chameleon and that kind of image, because I think 1 thing that I experienced, and this isn't necessarily a good thing, but I think that as an introvert, the experience of being able to blend into my environment and be a chameleon so that, you know, I'd no matter what situation or environment that I'm in, that I am able to just really interact and match the energy of people around me. In some circumstances, I think that, you know, I can be that can be helpful. I can connect to others. However, I also don't want to fully change who I am as an individual, and and I really wanna bring my gifts forward as an introvert, but that that's just an experience when I think about my discovery of introversion. I wanted to share that kind of chameleon, you know, experience because that's that's made me reflect a lot on this journey.

David Hall [00:10:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that's fine. But as as you said, though, it it's a problem when you're not being your true self, when you're not being your most effective, when it's draining you. You know? Mhmm. So definitely and that's a lot of what we're gonna talk about today is how to be your authentic self and how to get the most out of your natural gifts. So Yeah. What's a what's a strength that you have because you're an introvert?

Eilis Wasserman [00:10:29]:
Yeah. So, you know, I think and I wanna share. There's so many strengths that that introverts have out there, and I and really encourage everyone to think deeply about that. For me, I think about kind of 2 strengths that go together, especially thinking about myself as a coach. And the first 1 is for me being a deep processor and observer, and so somebody who notices the details. I know in my in my work, in my full time role, I'm the individual on the team where they're like, okay. Send this to Eilish because she's gonna notice what's what's missing here. She's gonna pick out the errors or you know? And so seeing the possibilities and seeing things that others might not and, you know, asking also those questions, pausing and asking those questions to think about what else, I think that is really a strength of mine and and also connected to really a secondary strength in being a coach and also being very empathetic, but just having noticing and having a presence as a coach.

Eilis Wasserman [00:11:39]:
So if I am having a presence as a coach where I'm noticing the individual in front of me, and I'm not just noticing what they're saying, but I'm noticing their nonverbals. I'm noticing how they interact, and so having that kind of an intuitive way of connecting with another individual. So, yeah, it all goes back to that kind of that deep processing and observing.

David Hall [00:12:02]:
Yeah. So when did you decide to be a coach?

Eilis Wasserman [00:12:05]:
Yeah. So I decided to be a coach It's a great question. It, you know, it kind of kind of came up naturally for me. As I mentioned, I was in higher education, and so I started being a career adviser working with students, and coaching is something that, you know, came up in the last decade where I was thinking about, how can I really develop and connect to others, and specifically, I started in career development? So, again, career advising, and, you know, that started with job search, resume, interview, those types of skills, but what was really powerful for me as a coach was my mission as a coach is to focus on cultivating confidence and inspiring self discovery. And so I like those conversations where we really dig deep and, again, do that deep processing together.

David Hall [00:13:03]:
Yeah. And so you work mostly with introverts. Correct?

Eilis Wasserman [00:13:08]:
Yeah. So I work with everyone, but, yes, I definitely focus on working with introverts.

David Hall [00:13:12]:
Okay. And so why might sometimes extroverted advice not work for introverts?

Eilis Wasserman [00:13:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a great question, David, and and I and I think that that goes back to just this this extroverted atmosphere and ideal that that we live in. So I think that extroverted advice doesn't take into account the, first of all, the gifts and strengths that introverts naturally have. And, you know, 1 of the the things that I think about for extroverted advice is specifically introverts being told to speak up, like, in a in a you know, say we're sitting in a meeting and, you know, oh, you need to to speak up or you need to share your thoughts and and be heard. And that's just something that doesn't work for a lot of introverts because how we express ourselves and and and share information, as I'm sure you know, is very different.

David Hall [00:14:14]:
Yeah. It's like, yeah, we need to speak up, but it's we need to prepare ahead of time often, not all the time, but often we need to prepare ahead of time. And, you know, 1 thing that I've really discovered is, you know, again, I thought something was wrong with me. I have learned to be very confident, and I prepare for things, you know, definitely, prepared for this podcast today. But what I what I realized was I was never no matter how confident I was, how much preparation, I'm always gonna think before I speak, and I'm never gonna have as many words come out of my mouth as my extroverted colleague. And that's okay. But it's just they generally think out loud, and so they're gonna, you know, they're gonna speak up more. But, you know, there's things that we could do, and a lot of that's this conversation today that we can be heard, but it's gonna look different.

Eilis Wasserman [00:15:12]:
Mhmm. Yeah. It is gonna look different, and and that's why I think it's so important the work that you're doing here is thinking about how can we be self advocates for ourselves and others, and so, you know, I often think about having introvert friendly meetings, right, and and how can we pause? How can we allow in introverts to share information, whether it's during or after the meeting if they have additional thoughts.

David Hall [00:15:39]:
Yeah. It needs to be okay. Again and, you know, I'll say this. I or, you know, I would want to encourage that introvert to share during the meeting. You know? That's having the agenda ahead of time, giving thought. That's the ideal. You know? But it needs to be okay to share after.

Eilis Wasserman [00:16:00]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. It really does. I can't tell you how many times, David, I've had, like, a really good idea, and it just doesn't come. Like, at the time that I want it to come, it comes afterwards.

David Hall [00:16:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. Our our minds, we're wired differently. They're it's in our biology, and and and we think longer. There's longer pathways and but it's a good thing. We come up with some great stuff, but we have to be allowed to do that.

Eilis Wasserman [00:16:26]:
Mhmm. Yeah.

David Hall [00:16:28]:
And is there anything else in the workplace, any other advice that you would give? Because I love how you said that, you know, you're you're seeing things where it things aren't working for other introverts. I love that. So what what's something else, you know, preparing for meetings, what's something else that introverts can do to be successful at work?

Eilis Wasserman [00:16:46]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I just I love having this discussion because there's so many ways that, you know, we can be be our own self advocate and also help others. You know? Because I think some individuals will start on this this journey, and how can they share that advice and insight. But 1 of your thing I think about as an introvert, and also I think this is a strength of introverts, is really asking meaningful questions and being inquisitive. You know, many introverts can be fabulous, active listeners, and asking questions is often more powerful than having the answers or trying to solve that problem right away. And so there's actually, 1 of my favorite books out there is by author named Warren Burger, and he has a book called A More Beautiful Question.

Eilis Wasserman [00:17:41]:
So in this book, he talks about how can we be questionologists. That's the word, questionologist. And questioning can be so powerful, but it's something that, as we age, we don't think about asking as many questions. Children do. Children are asking questions why all the time, but I think that's something that we can really lean into because asking questions can elicit so much, and it's just 1 question. We don't have to be talking all the time.

David Hall [00:18:11]:
Yeah. I love that. I'll have to check that book out. Yeah. And it's and I think as introverts, we're definitely curious. We definitely wanna learn. And so questions yeah. That's that's amazing.

David Hall [00:18:23]:
Yeah. So I think that we definitely have some strengths that are general to introverts, but, you know, with 50% of us 50% of the population, you know, no 1 introvert is alike. We have a lot of other you know, it's very nuanced to our personalities. We have a lot of different strengths. How do introverts figure out their unique strengths?

Eilis Wasserman [00:18:45]:
Yeah. And I'm already said this, and I'm gonna say it again. Yeah. I'm just first, we need to own our introversion. Right? Embrace it. See it as a positive thing. Because I think, you know, before even getting to, well, what is your strength, knowing that introverts do have strengths is is often the first thing that I'll talk with individuals about because they might not see it as as a positive attribute. But once you do, how do you discover your strengths? 1 thing that I really like to think about is how can you reflect upon a recent past time where you felt energized in the way that you feel energized as an introvert, which we know is different for an extrovert? And so think about that past time where you felt that energy, and what was that story, and through that, what skills were you utilizing during this time that you were energized? And so, thinking through that skill when you are energized, that's going to connect you to your strength because a strength is something that you excel at, but you also find joy, you also have the energy in.

Eilis Wasserman [00:19:54]:
So just doing a simple exercise like that, I think, can be very helpful for an individual to discover their strengths.

David Hall [00:20:03]:
Yeah. And I 1 of the strengths I think we have in common as introverts is the gift of reflection. And so just what you're saying, you can reflect on, you know, when was that moment? You know? When was that moment that you lost track of time? You know? When was that moment that you felt just, you know, really powerful in that thing that you did? So, yeah, that's awesome.

Eilis Wasserman [00:20:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, additional thought I'd say about discovering your strengths, whether you're an extrovert or an introvert, is is really to ask others around you as well. Like, get feedback from others around you. What do they see in you? Because sometimes we might not see fully what's in ourselves. It's it's maybe so natural. It's something we don't think about.

Eilis Wasserman [00:20:45]:
So, ask what, you know, others in your life have noticed about you.

David Hall [00:20:50]:
Yeah. And sometimes we're so close to who we are. Right? It's like we don't really think, oh, you know what? This is really something that that I have that other people don't. This is something you know, and none of us have all the gifts. So it's not really bragging. It's just really acknowledging what you have to offer. And sometimes we're just too close to that. So we need the help of a coach or or somebody else to really help bring that out.

David Hall [00:21:15]:
This, yeah, this is where you really shine, and we need this from you.

Eilis Wasserman [00:21:20]:
Yeah. Absolutely. That's where you shine.

David Hall [00:21:23]:
Do you ever get this question? I do. You know, what's the best job for an introvert? I'm just curious what your answer would be.

Eilis Wasserman [00:21:31]:
What's the best job for an introvert? Well, you know, it's a I there there's such a spectrum of you know, obviously, we know introversion and extrovert is such a spectrum, but I think, like, the the stereotypical, you know, answer might be, like, an accountant or engineer.

David Hall [00:21:48]:
Yeah. And, you know, again, it's it's it's interesting. We're talking about strengths and, you know, for me, it's like, oh, what's your strengths? You know, what how are you gonna turn that into being an engineer or accountant? Or a lot of times people think that only extroverts can do sales, but there's a lot of successful introverted salespeople. They just they do differently. You know?

Eilis Wasserman [00:22:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I I think that you're you're spot on, David, because they're I think there's stereotypes out there. Right? So, like, the accountant or the engineer. But, truly, look look at the roles that you and I are both in. You know? Very people oriented professions and, you know, constantly inner you know, interacting with others.

Eilis Wasserman [00:22:31]:
And so, you know, some people might think like, well, that's, you know, that's, you can do that as an introvert. You know, I also know, David, I've you may have heard as well. There's a lot of performers out there that are on stage that are introverts.

David Hall [00:22:46]:
That comes up so much on this show, and at first, it surprised me. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of actors and actresses are introverts or comedians or introverts, but it comes up a lot. In fact, it could even be more actors than introverts. And it's not that we don't wanna perform. It's just it's you know, you find your space and you find what works for you and and that kind of thing. And now I get that I get that as a podcaster. Like, wait.

Eilis Wasserman [00:23:14]:
You you

David Hall [00:23:14]:
can't be a podcaster. No. I love this. I absolutely love this. I have to prepare. You know? We we had a conversation before today, and and that's that's very helpful. If we didn't talk at all and just hit record, it probably wouldn't be as good of a show, you know, because it's we both needed to just think about, okay. What do we wanna talk about today? But it's the same for performers, and and it's so funny.

David Hall [00:23:38]:
And people say, well, I I didn't think I was an introvert because I like to perform. I'm like, yeah. That's not that's not it's not just for the extroverts to perform. And then public speaking comes up all the time too. Talking with a lot of people that do public speaking or hire public speakers, they say a lot. Probably the majority are introverts. You know? Yeah. Public speakers that you would you even have heard of are are introverts.

David Hall [00:24:04]:
So it it's just we gotta bust a lot of myths here, and that's that's a lot of what we're doing today. So I'm glad you brought that up.

Eilis Wasserman [00:24:11]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I appreciate you, you know, busting that myth with me because, you know, I'm I'm a facilitator or anything about public speaking, and and and I and I'm sure you can maybe relate to this, but I don't know how many times an individual says, oh, you're an introvert? Like, it doesn't seem like it. Like, they just you know, it's got this automatic reaction and, you know, just you possibly couldn't be an introvert.

David Hall [00:24:39]:
Yeah. And it's just so much misunderstanding about what it is. Yeah. We think deeply, but because we think, that's a reason why we want to perform or give speeches or facilitate because we have a lot to share. It's just the way we share it and how we need to prepare looks differently, but it's not that we don't wanna share. And that's probably the biggest myth that I'm working on busting is it's not that introverts don't like people. That's that's ridiculous. You know?

Eilis Wasserman [00:25:10]:
Yes.

David Hall [00:25:10]:
It's like people I've had so many conversations just just even in the last couple weeks. And it's like, well, you know, I I need my time, but I don't I I don't I think I'm somewhere in the middle because I like people. I'm like, yeah. I like people too. I'm an introvert. I like people. We all do. It just looks a little different.

David Hall [00:25:30]:
You know? Like like, I don't know about you, but I am not gonna get really excited about being dropped into a networking event with a 100 strangers and bouncing from person to person. That's not gonna I'm not gonna get excited about that. But having some deep conversations in that room, I'm gonna love.

Eilis Wasserman [00:25:48]:
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. You know, and and introverts can be fabulous networkers, but it's but networking is a loaded term that that that has a lot of people thinking a lot of things about what it could be and what it is not.

David Hall [00:26:08]:
Well, let's talk about it. What could it be? Yeah. And especially for especially for introverts.

Eilis Wasserman [00:26:14]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I'm I'm excite I was, you know, really excited to talk about networking because it's something that, you know, David and I talk about all the time, and it really goes down to that networking. When I think about it for introverts, it's reframing what what that word even is. Like, take the word network and just, you know, throw it over here because it's storytelling. And so that's, like, how I would like to reframe it is that networking is making meaningful connections with like minded people through storytelling. And so once we can kind of reframe that, we can, you know, go forth and focus on how do introverts network best. And so, as you said, you just brought up that, you know, a lot of a lot of individuals I work with are like, well, I don't want to go to this, you know, big conference or this job fair.

Eilis Wasserman [00:27:11]:
And that's not your happy place as an introvert, so don't go there. Each in meaningful 1 on 1 conversations, and, you know, start building confidence, you know, with those 1 on 1 conversations through kind of, you know, low key in a low key environment or with a friend or a colleague. I think 1 of the worst parts of networking sometimes for introverts, David, is the anticipation before the conversation starts.

David Hall [00:27:40]:
Yeah. So I love that you say it's about storytelling. Tell us more about that. How do you develop your story and share your story?

Eilis Wasserman [00:27:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I think that there's there's 2 parts to developing your story because when you're engaged in a conversation with others just like you and I are right now, It's about co collaborating and and creating that meaning and that story together, and so because networking isn't a one-sided conversation or communication, and so that's that's important to think about initially when you go into those conversations. How is your story and value connecting to the value in the story of somebody else? So you want to actively listen and ask good questions to really elicit what their story is so that you can find those common and connect your story back. So that's 1 of the main things that I would share. The the other thing, and we think about how do introverts prepare their stories, is 1 piece of advice I have is to think about, especially when you're networking or even interviewing, because we know that we tell stories when you're in an interview experience, is prepare ahead of time what I would call your own personal story book. This could be, like, your introvert story book, if you wanna call it that, but think about common stories that you often tell or that you could tell in an interview or in a networking situation and prepare those.

Eilis Wasserman [00:29:18]:
And the way that you prepare those is you might write them down, but, of course, you want to practice them, verbalize them out loud with someone that you trust. And so that's going to kind of help you think through those stories, kind of like you, you know, you and I were preparing today to think through some of these questions. And so that that is going to help us. And also, 1 of the most important stories that you want to prepare in your storybook is your introduction. And your introduction often, especially in an extrovertor world, would be called that elevator pitch or that, like, how do I sell myself? How do I and and that's that type of language of, oh, I need to market myself and is doesn't really connect well with introverts. So I would encourage you to think about what is your story intro and, you know, think about how would you really share an introduction about yourself as an introvert? Yeah.

David Hall [00:30:14]:
I love that. The introvert story book or a store a story book. That that's a cool concept because when you're in the interview, it's a little too late to gather your stories, especially as an introvert. You need to think of some situations, You know, where can I talk about, you know, some things that I've done or where I've shined or, you know, about myself? And the time is often beforehand. You know? We're gonna we're gonna think on the spot. We're gonna do okay. But if we can definitely build our storybook ahead of time, that's gonna be so much better as we're networking or in that job interview or or wherever it is, you know, just in conversation, which, of course, is networking too.

Eilis Wasserman [00:31:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's all about having conversations with like minded people.

David Hall [00:31:04]:
Yeah. So how do you help an introvert that lacks confidence to gain it?

Eilis Wasserman [00:31:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's that's a great question. And, you know, I feel like as introverts, we all find our we've all found ourselves feeling that, experiencing that. And I think this is the 3rd time that I've said this, but here we go again. 1st, you have to you have to own that introversion and lean into those strengths, the things that we already talked about earlier in this conversation, so that can't be understated. But I think that for introverts that lack that confidence, you know, it's really important to think about how can we not know with confidence and this concept of acting as if until something is true. Because confidence isn't something that is just going to happen overnight.

Eilis Wasserman [00:32:03]:
It's not going to just happen immediately. It's something that we are going to build slowly over time. And so how can we act as if something is true that we believe about ourselves and have that belief, and keep going regardless, keep moving forward. And so that's 1 of the first things that I that I would share about confidence.

David Hall [00:32:26]:
And I know sometimes introverts might lack that confidence and feel like they're bothering people with the things that they're asking for. What do you say about that?

Eilis Wasserman [00:32:37]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I I definitely wanted to to talk about this because, you know, when it comes to bothering people, really, we've talked about networking and and asking people for things. I'll have to tell you, when I'm coaching with introverts, bothering people is often the number 1 concern that comes up with my clients when they think about reaching out and, you know, asking people things, even just sending an email or a LinkedIn message. And so I think it's it's really important when we think about this concept of bothering that, you know, we pause and we step back and we dig deep and we explore, you know, why are we feeling that way? You know, and thinking about 1 thing that I would encourage introverts to do is to flip their orientation. So imagine that they're the person that they're reaching out to. And how would you feel if, you know, if if somebody reached out to you? Would you feel bothered? And most of the time, a lot of my introverts that I work with are like, I wanna feel bothered. They can reach out to you.

Eilis Wasserman [00:33:51]:
It's like me saying to you, David, hey. Like, I don't know if I wanna bother David, but maybe I should reach out to him.

David Hall [00:34:00]:
Yeah. You should.

Eilis Wasserman [00:34:02]:
So that's 1 that's 1 piece of of advice, but, you know, I I think that the other thing about bothering and and asking for things that we want as introverts is really practicing and honing the skill of being assertive. And this is something I talk a little bit about in the LinkedIn course that I developed for introverts. Being assertive is something that I'm constantly working on because it's not natural to me, and it's also it's a good trait. It's a good skill. Some people see assertive as, oh, that's negative. Like, being assertive is too aggressive, but it really shows that you can directly and confident and confidently communicate your perspective.

David Hall [00:34:46]:
Yeah. So if we're not feeling confident, if we don't feel like we can ask people for things, it's really to me, it seems like it's about changing your thoughts and your limiting beliefs. How do you do that? How do you change your thoughts?

Eilis Wasserman [00:35:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's not it it's a journey. We'll we'll start there. It's not easy, right, as I'm sure you know, because these thoughts and limiting beliefs can be ingrained in in who we are. And so we have to, again, really dig deep and really understand the why behind these limiting beliefs. And a great question to ask yourself in, you know, changing these beliefs and understanding them is, you know, what what is stopping you from, you know, thinking through something or moving forward or whatever that is? And we want to take this belief that we have and turn it around.

Eilis Wasserman [00:35:44]:
And so take this belief or this limitation and choose an alternative and new perspective, new positive belief, about ourselves. So it's really noticing it, having that self awareness, pausing, but then also reframing it to an alternative belief.

David Hall [00:36:06]:
K. Can you think of an example of that?

Eilis Wasserman [00:36:10]:
Yeah. Good question. I think that an example of that would be a a limiting belief that I think a lot of, you know, introverts might have is that, you know, I'm just too quiet, that I'm never I'm never gonna be able to be heard because my you know, we talked about this before that my voice is never going to be listened to because there's always other people in the room that are talking, that are sharing. And so, you know, what we can do is that is immediately when we notice that we're having these thoughts is we wanna pause and notice what is triggering that thought. You know, if we're in a meeting, maybe it's during that meeting, but we notice that trigger. What are the most emotions associated with that trigger? And then we can think about, okay. Well, if I feel like I'm never gonna be heard, how how can I reframe that and say, what is also what is also true here, and how can I reframe this and think about how can I communicate and, again, own my introversion? So instead of I'm never gonna be heard, I, as an introvert, am gonna be able to share my voice, you know, in a way that is meaningful in a meeting that connects in a different way than others might connect.

David Hall [00:37:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's a great example. So taking all of this and the work that you do, how do you help introverts find that career and and and and head towards that career that's gonna be rewarding for them?

Eilis Wasserman [00:37:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I I think the first the first piece of advice I would share about that is think about all the introverts that have gone before us that are doing the things that we admire. Right? So if you admire podcasting, talk to David. Right? And and so I I think it's really looking at the fascinating individuals and people that we can admire. And speaking of networking, you talked about networking, having conversations and getting to know who those individuals are. A lot of individuals have this idea that networking is only about getting a job, but networking, telling your story is learning about others. And so it's not just about, hey, I need to get this job, but it's it's learning the inside information about what it's like to be in the other person's shoes.

Eilis Wasserman [00:38:45]:
So that's the first thing is that, you know, really combining that, connecting with others to to learn about who they are. And it's it's it's really what I also would connect to, conducting career experiments. And so trying things a little bit to see if you like them, because I know as an introvert, I think for me that I'm not gonna just always, like, jump into something. I need to try it out a little bit, and it can be intimidating to think about, oh, well, I just gotta, you know, sign on to this new full time job. So how can we conduct little career experiments for ourselves even before, you know, we get connected to or jump into those opportunities?

David Hall [00:39:28]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, definitely, on this show, we talk about the strengths and needs of introverts, so we we've done that. I think we've busted a lot of myths. Yeah. But how about this myth? I people often say, oh, introverts, they can't be great leaders. What What do you think about that 1?

Eilis Wasserman [00:39:46]:
0, man. How much time do we have,

David Hall [00:39:48]:
David? So

Eilis Wasserman [00:39:51]:
a 100%, yes. Introverts can be fabulous leaders. And, you know, I currently work in leadership development, and so I think about this all the time. And, you know, I I would love for our listeners to think about the leaders in their life and what makes them a great leader and why. And chances are many of those individuals are introverts, and so, you know, leadership just isn't about charisma and those, you know, very obvious leadership traits. I will share, and I share this all the time so that people that know me, my favorite introverted leader is Abraham Lincoln. And, you know, when you when you think about him, he was an amazing storyteller. He was an amazing, you know, orator, but what really came through in his introverted leadership, I think, was humility.

Eilis Wasserman [00:40:40]:
It's his humble style of leadership.

David Hall [00:40:43]:
Okay. Alright. So, yeah, I had to ask you that 1. I know you do a lot of work with leadership. But, yeah, we can make fabulous leaders. That's a good way to put it. But success might look different, you know, the way you prepare, the way you might need some time here and there to think about things and come up with some great strategies. Definitely, there's a myth that it's always that charismatic person that's a great leader, and that's definitely not the case.

Eilis Wasserman [00:41:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. We we can all be leaders no matter where we're at. I think that's important to think. It's not just being at the top, but we can all have influence in our own way.

David Hall [00:41:20]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Eilish, this has been a great conversation. We've talked about a lot of things, and the time to go by really quickly. Is there anything else you wanna add that we haven't talked about yet?

Eilis Wasserman [00:41:30]:
Yeah. No. It has gone by really quickly, and that's that's what happens when 2 introverts really have those deep, meaningful, you know, conversation. No. I mean, I I you know, I I thank everyone for listening. And, you know, 1 thing I think about, a a quote that I think about when we think about in introverts is it's from Ralph Waldo Emerson, and he says to be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. So, again, own your introversion there.

David Hall [00:42:01]:
Yeah. That's the I love that. That's great. Well, thank you. And where can people find out more about you and what you're offering and that type of thing?

Eilis Wasserman [00:42:09]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So I am a huge advocate of of LinkedIn, by the way, so that's something else I encourage introverts to, lean into. But you can, you know, connect with me via LinkedIn and see my work there. I I recently also, LinkedIn Learning put out a new course that I developed called an introvert's guide to succeeding in the workplace. So definitely check that out. And then I also I work with an organization called Schaeffer Leadership in Central Indiana, so you can find me there.

David Hall [00:42:37]:
Alright. Thanks again for a great conversation.

Eilis Wasserman [00:42:40]:
Thank you so much, David. Take care.

David Hall [00:42:43]:
Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media channels. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. If you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there's now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the 4 letter Myers Briggs code, and you can also have the option of purchasing the full report if you'd like to learn more. I'll add a link to the show notes. So many great things about being an introvert, and we need those to be understood.

David Hall [00:43:23]:
Get to know your introverted strengths and needs, and be strong.