Ep 198 - Marketing and Business Growth Through Podcast Guesting, Especially for Introverts with guest Tom Schwab

Are you an introvert who's struggling to market yourself? Have you ever thought about being on podcasts to grow your business? In this episode of The Quiet and Strong Podcast, host David Hall is joined by podcast interview marketing expert Tom Schwab. You'll discover practical strategies for thinking on your feet during interviews, why honesty and thoughtful conversation can trump conventional extroversion, and how to strategically target the right podcasts to align with your goals.

Listeners will gain valuable insights into leveraging introverted strengths in podcasting, such as deep thinking, reflective pause strategies, and relationship-building through genuine connections. Tom also shares his journey from corporate America to founding Interview Valet and the significance of thorough preparation for success in podcast guesting.

Whether you're looking to expand your business or build meaningful professional relationships, this episode offers actionable advice and inspiring stories tailored especially for introverts. Listen in, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/198

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Do traditional marketing strategies clash with your introverted nature? Tom Schwab, our guest today, gets it. As the godfather of podcast interview marketing, he’s helped thought leaders get heard. His book, Podcast Guest Profits: How to Grow Your Business With a Targeted Interview Strategy, is a must-read. Tom believes the future of marketing lies in genuine connection, clear communication, and sincere empathy—introvert superpowers. Discover how to embrace your strengths and make a meaningful impact with podcast interview marketing.

Connect with Tom:

Website: InterviewValet.com

Interview Landing Page: InterviewValet.com/qs where you can get Tom's Book: PODCAST GUEST PROFITS: How To Grow Your Business With A Targeted Interview Strategy.


Socials: LinkedIn | Twitter (X) | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube

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David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
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Transcript

Tom Schwab [00:00:00]:
The one that I've been busting is that you need to be an extrovert to leverage podcasting. And what I have seen over the last 10 years of helping thought leaders get on podcast, It's the introverts that do the best. Right? Because they listen. They prepare for the interviews. They've thought out the questions. Right? They they're taking it seriously to show up and have a discussion. And the thing is is that I used to tell people, you know, well, you know, would you drive across town to see one great customer? Would you jump on an airplane to see a 100 great customers? And you could tell the introverts they'd be like, yeah, I don't wanna talk in front of a hundred people. And the thing is with podcasts, you only have to talk to one person.

David Hall [00:01:00]:
Hello, and welcome to episode 198 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we'll our each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review, or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast.

David Hall [00:01:32]:
Help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Do traditional marketing strategies clash with your introverted nature? Tom Schwab, our guest today, gets it. As the godfather of podcast interview marketing, he's helped thought leaders get heard. His book, podcast guest profits, how to grow your business with a targeted with a targeted interview strategy, is a must read. Tom believes the future of marketing lies in genuine connection, clear communication, and sincere empathy. Introvert superpowers. Discover how to embrace your strengths and make meaningful impact with podcast interview marketing. Alright.

David Hall [00:02:17]:
Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Tom. Tom, it's so great to have you on today.

Tom Schwab [00:02:21]:
David, I am thrilled to be here. Thank you.

David Hall [00:02:23]:
Yeah. We're gonna get into your work. Tell us a little bit about your journey to the work that you're doing now.

Tom Schwab [00:02:30]:
It only makes sense in the rearview mirror. Right? I was a engineer by degree, worked in corporate America, and then did inbound marketing, had a ecommerce company that was HubSpot's first ecommerce case study, and then really realized that the world was changing, that, you didn't have to go out and yell at people, that you could use, you know, content to attract, engage, and delight people. That used to be, you know, blogs and guest blogs. And right now, it's much, much easier and more powerful to use podcasts. And I'm an engineer by degree, so I always say, I've written a lot of blogs in my life, but they all felt like going to the dentist. That for me, it's easier to just talk with people 1 on 1.

David Hall [00:03:14]:
Hey. I'm right there with you. I definitely blogged before podcasting, and podcasting is my preference. And you're also, a fellow introvert. When did you discover that, and did you have to learn to embrace it?

Tom Schwab [00:03:28]:
Oh, I I fought it for a long time. I always knew that I was an introvert. Right? I could put on my extroverted phase for a while, but it was it was tiring. Right? And so as I went through I went to the US Naval Academy. A lot of engineers there. Right? So I think I was probably a little bit more extroverted on the on the scale if there was, but I needed my time alone. Right? Even, when I served on a aircraft carrier, 5,000 people on what became a very small ship, right, if you can't get away, just to find times to get away with my own thoughts. And through corporate America and everything like that, I I called myself a functional extrovert or, excuse me, a functional introvert.

Tom Schwab [00:04:21]:
Almost like there was something wrong with being an introvert. You know, even though that half of the world is, it's like, oh, if I could just be as outgoing as this person, then I'd be better. And the older I get, the more I realize that I am who I am. I've gotta work to my strengths and that the world is changing. Right? The days of the extroverted carnival barker out there just just talking and making noise doesn't work anymore. I don't think I don't think sellers have figured it out, but buyers have. Right? They don't wanna be yelled at that way. And I think today, especially with the tools we have that I need to other people need to embrace their introversion because it's a skill.

Tom Schwab [00:05:14]:
It's something out there that people are longing for.

David Hall [00:05:18]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And it's and that's what I say. It's like, I figured out there wasn't anything wrong with me, but what was wrong is I didn't understand. Hey. There's great strengths here. But, also, there's there's some needs here too that I need to honor and some strategies that I can have for success that might look different than an extrovert or friend of mine.

Tom Schwab [00:05:37]:
Ex exactly. And it's like, this is how we were made. Right? And we can't change ourselves, so we gotta play to our strengths.

David Hall [00:05:45]:
Yeah. What would you say is the strength that you have because you're an introvert?

Tom Schwab [00:05:50]:
I think it's thinking through things beforehand, listening. Right? I used to think that the smartest person in the room was the one that was talking and and had all the answers. What I've realized is the smartest person is the one that is listening and asking the questions. Right? They're the ones that are always getting smarter. And it was interesting early on in life, I think, and probably even more today with social media. Right? It's the it's the loudest person. It's the most extroverted out there. But as I got into the navy and as I got into corporate America, all of a sudden I saw that the leaders, they weren't like that.

Tom Schwab [00:06:37]:
Right? The the people that were running nuclear power. Right? They weren't saying much. They were asking questions and then looking over their, their glasses to get you to answer it. Working at corporate America, I worked with at the Stryker Corporation and had the honor of working with John Brown. And he is the only CEO in the United States that has ever grown a company 20% for 20 consecutive years. And just a mild mannered man, introverted, educated, but he really was an example to me of what leadership is. And and so that's really where I started to embrace a lot more.

David Hall [00:07:21]:
Yeah. And it's, you know, talking about someone that might be doing the most talking while we're doing the thinking. And probably the person that you just shared an example of, he probably was a very deep thinker and probably, you know, regularly reflected and came up with some brilliant strategies and that type of thing.

Tom Schwab [00:07:39]:
Yeah. Definitely. And when when he talked, you listened because it was important.

David Hall [00:07:46]:
Yeah. That's, we could go into a longer story about that, but that's where the that's where the quiet and strong name comes from. It's it's we think. And then when we speak, people tend to listen because we've well thought through our ideas. So that's that's brilliant. And then on this show, we talk about the strengths of introverts, the needs of introverts. We also bust myths. Is there an introverted myth that you wanna bust today?

Tom Schwab [00:08:09]:
I've the one that I've been busting is that you need to be an extrovert to leverage podcasting. And what I have seen over the last 10 years of helping thought leaders get on podcast, It's the introverts that do the best. Right? Because they listen. They prepare for the interviews. They've thought out the questions. Right? They they're taking it seriously to show up and have a discussion. And the thing is is that I used to tell people, you know, well, you know, would you drive across town to see one great customer? Would you jump on an airplane to see a 100 great customers? And you could tell the introverts. They'd be like, yeah, I don't wanna talk in front of a 100 people.

Tom Schwab [00:08:56]:
And the thing is with podcasts, you only have to talk to one person. It's the Zoom call. Right? We're just we're all used to that. You can talk 1 on 1 and with technology, speak to 1,000, tens of 1,000 across time. And that was really a, a myth that I wanna bust is that that you have to be an extrovert to be a great podcast guest. If somebody is too extroverted, I tell them be more introverted. Right? Listen. Think about your answers, all of these things, because just think about the podcast guest you've heard, which ones are better, the ones that are thoughtful and listened or the ones that you can't get a word in edgewise.

David Hall [00:09:47]:
Right. Right. And that's gonna be the topic of our show today, of course, being an introvert and being and leveraging the power of being on a podcast. And, Tom, I've been enjoying your book, podcast guest profits, grow your business with a targeted interview strategy. So tell us about the book and the work that you do.

Tom Schwab [00:10:09]:
So the book came out about 7 years ago, and it was in response to people asking me the questions. Right? When we first started out, I my last company was HubSpot's first ecommerce case study. We built the entire business up on guest blogs, basically tapping into other people's audience. So when I sold that company, I was in a a mastermind group down in Nashville, and people were saying, well, how did you grow it? And I said, well, guest blogging, but that doesn't work anymore. And in 2014, I started to think, I bet you could use podcast interviews. So we tested it. It worked really, really well. And I wrote a cheesy little PDF, and then I did an online course that I never took out of beta.

Tom Schwab [00:11:02]:
And, David, it was because I'd interview the people that were taking the course. And the ones that were honest were saying, listen. I don't want to learn and do all of this. Right. I want to be the guest. You take care of the rest. So it was actually one of our beta testers that bought the name interview valet and gave it to us. And so we started the company in a a few years in as I had more insights.

Tom Schwab [00:11:28]:
I wanted to share those with people because there are certain clients that we could help and who value what we do, but there's a lot of other people that were just doing podcast guesting wrong. You know? They they didn't know the the difference. You know? It's almost like if you've never been shown how to cook, you'll burn a lot of things and waste a lot of time. So I put that out there just to show people how they could use this medium to help people and to help themselves really to connect and not just talk, but to get results out of it.

David Hall [00:12:02]:
Yeah. Definitely. So what are you saying that introverts how how introverts can use their strengths in using podcasts for their marketing?

Tom Schwab [00:12:13]:
Yeah. So I believe today, the biggest problem we all have is obscurity. Right? There's 1,000, tens of thousands of people that would gladly pay you for your product or service today. They're probably praying for it. The problem is they don't know you exist. Right? So how do you get out there? And, you know, today there's a lot of people saying, oh, breakthrough the noise. I think that's people that are selling us the megaphones, you know, yell louder and more and more. I think it's really having a conversation.

Tom Schwab [00:12:51]:
So introverts can do that because we're not always the best and most comfortable at public speaking. Right? I've done public speaking. It's stressful for me to do a keynote. Right? That takes a whole lot of preparation. But to do a conversation is easy. It's a conversation we're doing 1 on 1 with clients all the time. So I think it plays to our strengths. The other thing is that it plays to our comfort.

Tom Schwab [00:13:21]:
Right? For me, flying someplace, getting on a stage, walking up there, and I I I get the lump in my throat just thinking about it. But with podcast interviews, I can sit in my office, which is in my home. Right? I've got all my setup here. It's just normal. It's comfortable. And that's where we we really excel. So I think, if there was ever a time to be an introvert, it's today. And if there was ever a time to leverage the technology of being an introvert, it's today.

David Hall [00:13:56]:
Yeah. For sure. So you mentioned, like, with public speaking, you have to prepare. And, the same, that's something I learned. I I love public speaking, but I learned that I have to prepare. I also have to plan in some downtime. But I find the same is true for podcasting. You know? I have to prepare whether it's I'm the host or I'm the guest.

David Hall [00:14:18]:
I have to prepare and, of course, plan some downtime. How can introverts prepare? You know, what what would you say? How could they prepare for guesting on podcasts?

Tom Schwab [00:14:29]:
Yeah. And it's interesting. Sometimes we'll have people and they say, oh, I can do this. No problem. Right? I can talk at any time about anything. And those are the extroverts that will just show up and regurgitate through an interview. Right? And the ones that are meaningful and I always tell people, don't just do more interviews. Do better interviews.

Tom Schwab [00:14:52]:
Do more with your interview. So I think that really the preparation starts when you before you reach out to the host. Right? Tell them the things that you're passionate about, that you can speak about. Right? Often, we'll talk about interview topics. And we found that over the last decade, giving people questions to ask you can be insulting. But give them interview topics. Things that you can speak about that you're passionate about. Make sure you know who the audience is beforehand.

Tom Schwab [00:15:24]:
Often people will say, well, how do I prepare to be a podcast guest? And I'm like, drop the word guest or excuse me. Drop the word podcast. And how do you prepare to be a guest? Right? If David invited me over for dinner, there'd be a lot of things that I did beforehand. Right? I would find out who's gonna be there. Right? What time is the dinner? What what are we having? Right? Is this a barbecue or a formal dinner? Right? And so those things and how could how could I add value to this? So it's the same thing with a podcast. So I always tell people, you know, show up on time, sounding great, ready to add value. Because I think that's one of those things where if you come with the right heart, right, to to serve, you'll get great things out of it. I remember a a podcast host, DJ Doug Sandler from the nice guys on business podcast.

Tom Schwab [00:16:22]:
He's like, if you do a good job on a podcast, the host will promote you better than you ever could. Right? But if you just come there and promote yourself, then often the interview will get lost. So I think coming with that mindset knowing why you're there is always important.

David Hall [00:16:42]:
Yeah. So so definitely, I do provide questions in advance. It's not a script, but it's more of a framework. Mhmm. I have been on other podcasts. Some have provided questions, some not. And I you know, if we're talking about introversion, I could speak about introversion without preparation, which is kind of funny. But I could speak about introversion all day as my joke.

David Hall [00:17:06]:
But as a guest, if they aren't providing questions or even topics, is that something that you should ask for?

Tom Schwab [00:17:14]:
Yes. I would never go into an interview blind. And sometimes they'll have a pre call where you can talk about this. Other times, if they don't provide if they don't tell you what topic they'd like to talk about or if they didn't give you questions, it's great to reach out to them beforehand. Right? Maybe a few days before and say, you know, oh, David, I was listening to the podcast. I listened to this episode and this episode. And as I was preparing for this, I was thinking that I could add value here. Right? And we could dive deep into this area.

Tom Schwab [00:17:55]:
Help them connect the dots. And especially you never know. Today, especially, people get busy. You don't know what's going on in their life. If you can help them give give a better interview, you'll get a better interview there too. I would I would never feel comfortable just jumping on a a podcast, and it's like, hey. Let's go. We'll talk about anything.

Tom Schwab [00:18:18]:
Right? Because people have called me an idiot savant. Some people don't know what a savant is, so maybe they just call me an idiot. But there's a very few things that I'm very passionate of knowledge about. Right? If we're gonna talk about about sports, I'm gonna have to do a lot of studying beforehand because that's just not something that that really engages me.

David Hall [00:18:43]:
Yeah. Definitely. And, we're just not always the best at thinking on our feet. We think deeply, and we need to be prepared. Yeah. I love sports, but don't start asking me questions because, it's not gonna be a good interview.

Tom Schwab [00:18:59]:
And even when we say we're not great at thinking on our feet, I think we are. It's just we do it differently. So if somebody asks me a question that it's like, I have never thought about this before or I don't know. Right? Often, I will I will be honest with that and say, you know, David, I I've never thought about that before. I've never been asked that, but I think it's a great question. So let's work through it. And so it buys me a little bit of time, and I also may be talking about different things, and I might not come to the conclusion with what my answer is till the end. And just say at the end, does that make sense? And I'd much rather do that than say, I don't know or make up an answer.

Tom Schwab [00:19:50]:
Right? I'll go through the thought process. And I think at the also with the podcast interview, there's not, like, right and wrong answers. Right? It's your opinion. And nobody's gonna ask me an economic question. They're not gonna ask me a math question. I'm an engineer, but I hope they don't ask me an engineering question. Right? They ask more for your opinion and your insights, and we all have that and can share it. And the the great thing about podcast is that you don't have to have everybody love you.

Tom Schwab [00:20:24]:
Right? I always say that we want to be who we are because you can't say enough of the right things to the wrong people or the wrong things to the right people. If somebody doesn't resonate with me, I guarantee, on the podcast interview, they won't resonate resonate with me working together. So, you know, I am who I am. If my mother couldn't change me in 18 years, I'm not gonna change myself now.

David Hall [00:20:51]:
Yeah. Good point. And sometimes that is an introvert strategy. You know, just say, give me a moment to think about that or, you know, sometimes it might be, you know, not in a podcast situation, but, you know, I'll I'll call you tomorrow. It's funny. I just recorded an episode with a a fellow introverted podcast host. You know, I'm the host in this situation, but she asked me a question that I wasn't ready for. And I said, let me think about that.

David Hall [00:21:18]:
And sure enough, she said, she said, yeah. I'll get back to you. Then she shared her thought, and then I shared my thought. But it just it was it was very interesting. You know, I wasn't expecting the question as the host, but I had to actually say, let me think about that for a moment. So that's a strategy that really saves us because, you know, and then I always say too, the introverts, let me think about that. But then, you know, tell tell people that, but then come up with something brilliant because you are gonna let your mind do its brilliant work.

Tom Schwab [00:21:46]:
I love that. And especially from the, you know, that's great. Let me think about it. What are your insights on that? Because now you've thrown it back to them. You can hear them working through it. You're as you're working through it, and then you can build on that as a because the other thing about podcast interviews, this is not gotcha. Right? This is not a 60 minute interview No. Where they've got the lights and the camera, all the rest of this.

Tom Schwab [00:22:12]:
The host wants to make you look good. Right? It's it's not a gotcha interview.

David Hall [00:22:17]:
Yeah. And that's that's exactly the thing. That's why I provide the questions because, like, you know, I wanna have a great conversation. I don't wanna throw you off. There's no there's no place for that here. You know? So that's that's why we definitely prepare. How is, how is being a guest good at helping you network and build business relationships?

Tom Schwab [00:22:39]:
Yeah. It is the long form. Right? I think we're in this world of memes and short clips, and they have their place. Right? But you have to spend time with somebody and and get to know them to build that relationship. And I think that's what podcasting does. And in some ways, I think while 90% of podcasts today have video, I think audio is actually better at building relationships. Because when you're just hearing somebody, you're not making judgments about them. Right? They're too old.

Tom Schwab [00:23:17]:
They're too young. They don't look like me. And you start to listen to their content. And then once you see them, it's like, oh, okay. You may be surprised, but you already have that vision of who they are and you like them. You think of it back to the old days of of radio hosts. Right? The the DJs that we had a picture in our mind. The other thing too is that people recognize voices.

Tom Schwab [00:23:44]:
And, David, I this struck me years ago. I was on a flight. And as I was getting off the plane, somebody came up and they said, are you Tom Schwab? And my first thought was, are you a process server?

David Hall [00:24:00]:
Right?

Tom Schwab [00:24:01]:
And I'm like, yes. Why? And they're like, I recognize your voice. And it's like, wow. You know, they may not have recognized me if I wasn't dressed or in the right environment. Right? If I was on vacation, but that somebody recognizes your voice, I think, is powerful. And I've made so many friends through podcasting. Right? People that I have never met in real life. I have no idea how tall they are, but we've got built that relationship.

Tom Schwab [00:24:31]:
And I think that's something that podcasting does. And I really think it's because of that intimacy of of the spoken language.

David Hall [00:24:40]:
Yeah. Absolutely. That's amazing that someone recognized you just by voice. That's Yes. That's that's crazy. So somebody is resonating with this. They're thinking, yeah, I wanna start being a guest to share my message, my business. How do you start, and how do you find the right podcast to be on?

Tom Schwab [00:24:58]:
Yeah. Great question, and I would add a couple of words on to that. How do you find a great podcast for you? Because there's a lot of great podcasts, but they don't necessarily mean they're great podcasts for you. Right? So many people are like, oh, I wanna be on Joe Rogan. Why? Right? What would you offer him? Is that your audience? Do you really wanna be taped for eternity for 90 minutes with a comedian? Right? I can remember, we worked with a client. He was a a CEO of a publicly traded company. And we were talking with them. We do practice interviews with with all of our clients.

Tom Schwab [00:25:43]:
And I was talking with them on the practice interview, and he said, yeah. My, my assistant said I should be on the Joe Rogan show. And the week before, I don't know if you remember this, Elon Musk was on there, and Joe Rogan passed him something that was legal in California. Right? Passed him a joint. No judgment, anything like that. I said, would you be comfortable being on a podcast like that? And he's like, oh, my board would fire me. That's why you pick the podcast host, and I don't. So I would always say start with what's ideal for you.

Tom Schwab [00:26:20]:
And I always go through 4 questions. Right? The first one is the podcast itself. Right? Often, the audience is like the host or aspires to be like the host. So if you would think, oh, the host would be a great person to talk to, then the audience probably would also. The next thing is the website. Right? Discoverability in podcast is still the Achilles' heel. If they don't have a website, people probably won't find you. The third thing is the reach.

Tom Schwab [00:26:55]:
Right? How many people are gonna hear you? Now bigger isn't better. Better is better. But look. Are they promoting it on their website? Are they promoting it on social media? Are they promoting it on their email list? Right? If if all they're doing there's a service out there called blog talk radio. It's great. It's convenient. Right? You we talk. It goes up almost like a radio show, but nobody ever promotes it.

Tom Schwab [00:27:24]:
So look at that. So we had the podcast, the website, the reach. The final one to me is brand affinity. You wanna be proud of any podcast you're on. Make sure that it aligns with your values and who you are. Right? That's one of the reasons we don't do political podcasts. I'm not saying people can't have political views, but that's not what we're about. Or if you've got one that's, you know, takes a strong view on something that is not consistent with your brand.

Tom Schwab [00:27:55]:
You don't wanna be on there. And then, you know, so with that those with those 4 filters there, start going out and looking at podcasts. Listen to the podcasts. Ask your clients what podcast they listen to. There's a great tool out there, and you can get, like, the first five searches for free. It's called sparktoro.com. And it's almost spooky, David. You can put in my ideal clients go to this conference or they go to this website.

Tom Schwab [00:28:28]:
Or maybe if you've got enough traffic on your website, you can put that up there. And it will tell you what things they subscribe to, who they follow, even what podcast they listen to. And so you can use a little data there. And then finally, people will say, well, I've got my list of a 100 target podcasts, and I'm gonna reach out to all of them. But once again, more is not better. Better is better. Right? Why don't you just follow or pick out 5 podcasts and listen to the podcast. See if it'd be good for you.

Tom Schwab [00:29:03]:
Leave the host a rating and review. Right? We all listen for our names. Right? Leave some comments. Share it on social media. I always say, you know, Gary Vaynerchuk talks about jab, jab, jab, jab, right hook. I look at it. Just give, give, give, ask. Give them a review.

Tom Schwab [00:29:22]:
Give them some social media love. Reach out to them and say, I, you know, I think I could give your audience this value. They'll be asking you to be on there. And often people will say, well, that's not efficient. Right? I could just blast this millions of podcasts. I bought a list. I'm like, yeah. You could, but it's not gonna work.

Tom Schwab [00:29:43]:
So that's my advice on there. Make sure it's the right one, and then build that relationship as a human being before you ask.

David Hall [00:29:53]:
Yeah. And when you said the example of a 100, you gotta pace yourself too. As an introvert, you you gotta manage your time and energy and, you know, you can't do it. So a 100 people aren't gonna say yes, but, you know, maybe 50 do. You can't do 50 all at once. You really have to be more targeted in in your efforts and then, you know, get a couple and then get a couple more later.

Tom Schwab [00:30:20]:
And that's it. It's like, remember that commercial, and they told 2 friends and so on and so on. Yeah. Yeah. I'm showing my age there. But, do a great job on the podcast. Right? Podcast hosts know other podcast hosts. And at the end, after you stop recording, right, if you had a great time on the podcast, say, you know, I've I'm looking for other shows.

Tom Schwab [00:30:43]:
If you thought I was of value, you know, do you know any other people that I'd be good for? You know, if you just go on a podcast, do a great job, and the podcast host in introduces you to 2 of their friends that also have podcasts, the likelihood of them saying yes is very high. Right? And think about it. You you find 5 podcasts, you get on 3. Now you've got 6 new podcasts go on to and then 12 new podcasts. Once again, it's it's probably easier to buy a list and spam a 1000000 people, but it's not effective. Right? Doing the work that introverts do. That's what's effective.

David Hall [00:31:25]:
Yeah. Do you have any advice on how to reach out?

Tom Schwab [00:31:28]:
Yes. Reach out as a peer, not as a fanboy. Reach out with value and sincerity. Right? I get I we've got a podcast now. Had it for about a year. But before I ever had a podcast, I would get these emails that said, dear Tom, I hope this day finds you well. I love your podcast and want to be a guest. Right? I'm on a list.

Tom Schwab [00:31:57]:
Yeah. I don't have a podcast. You don't love it because you didn't listen to it. So Right. Go out as an individual. Right? And and say, you know, I listened to the podcast. This is what I liked about it. Here's where I think I could add value.

Tom Schwab [00:32:12]:
Another one that sometimes we struggle with, I struggle with is I don't like my voice, and I definitely don't like myself on video. But what I have found is if you send somebody a video and their services like Loom or you can just do it off of your phone and record 1. If you reach out and put that video in there and says, you know, hey, David. I was listening to the podcast. I I've been a big fan of quiet and strong. I left a rating and review, and I think I could add value here. Right? If it's a face to camera video, you know that it's the real person. This is not some third world VA spamming you.

Tom Schwab [00:32:59]:
You just saw how the person talks, how they present themselves. It's almost like you just gave a little mini interview there. And the other thing that we have found is that it's easy to ignore an email. Right? It's just words there. But if you see somebody's face there, that's personal. Right? And so you'll get a a better response if somebody sees your smiling face.

David Hall [00:33:30]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So the introvert now is gonna do this, but let's say they're very anxious about it. What tips do you have for someone overcoming anxiety about being a podcast guest?

Tom Schwab [00:33:45]:
I think being anxious about it is good. Right? I've heard public speakers talk about that. The day that you walk onto a stage and you're not anxious is the day you don't deserve to be there. Now we had talked before about being prepared. I always sit will tell people your first interview is gonna be the worst. You're gonna get better. Right? You're gonna get more comfortable. So get those reps in.

Tom Schwab [00:34:11]:
And, also, what we talked about before. This is not a gotcha interview. Right? The the host wants you to look good because the better you look, the better they look. And so remember that. Some hosts will do precalls. Maybe if you're if you're concerned about that, if they don't offer it, maybe you could offer that. Hey. You know, David, does it make sense to get on, you know, 5 minutes early or, you know, the day early just to make sure? And it sort of breaks that the ice there a little bit, and it gets you more comfortable there.

Tom Schwab [00:34:48]:
The other thing is don't worry about the technology. Make sure that you've got that set up beforehand so it's one less thing to worry about. Right? If they're using Zoom, call a friend and say, hey. Can I get all my stuff set up correctly so that I know that it works beforehand? Just one less thing to worry about. So little things like that can go a long way. Also, I've got a routine that I go through. Right? I always block out 15 minutes before a podcast interview so I can go through all the notes that my team gives me and every client, about the podcast. I'll go to the host's LinkedIn, go to their website, see what's been going on.

Tom Schwab [00:35:30]:
We give these little door hangers to all of our clients, whatever events we we give them out to. It's it's the the little door hanger that says do not disturb interview and process. It's a great way to get a nap in your office too. Nobody ever knocks on the door. But just putting that there and and just getting in the mindset for it, I think that goes a long way.

David Hall [00:35:53]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And that's good advice. So even though, you know, I had put together some questions for you ahead of time, guess what? Right before this, just like you're saying, I took some time. Okay. What did I send Tom, and what did he send me? And just getting the right headspace for it. And so I always make sure that I have at least a hour before and a hour after. And so I'm prepared, but then I I can recharge and maybe even reflect afterward.

Tom Schwab [00:36:23]:
Yeah. One of my, friends shared with me that he always listens to the David Bowie song, we could be heroes beforehand, and it just puts him in the right mindset. And I'm like, that is such a great idea. You you think about athletes. Right? Batters before they they go in there. They sort of have that routine they go through every time. Like basketball, right, when they're doing their free throws, every time's the same. Golfers the same way.

Tom Schwab [00:36:55]:
And I think performers are sort of that same way before they walk out on stage. I'm like, that would be really helpful. Just have that routine. Here's the things that I go through so that when they hit record alright. I'm in the right mindset. And and I'm I think the more you do it, the quicker you can get in there. I think the first time I did a podcast interview probably, oh, a dozen years ago, I was probably up all night beforehand. Right? I was studying.

Tom Schwab [00:37:27]:
I was there beforehand. Now I can get into that that mindset much quicker as I as I come up to speed. And the other thing too is I gotta give credit to my team. They have a brief sheet on every podcast. And so I go there. I pull it up and says, you know, here's the podcast. Here's background about that the host. Here's things we've learned.

Tom Schwab [00:37:49]:
Here's all their social media links. So all I've gotta do is click on it, and I can get to all of that things.

David Hall [00:37:56]:
Yeah. That's amazing. And so if you have a team, that's wonderful. Otherwise, you can do that yourself and and just be ready for that. So, Tom, just, maybe one last question. How do you connect as an introvert on a podcast? How do you connect with the audience and what what how does storytelling play into all that? Yeah.

Tom Schwab [00:38:16]:
I I storytelling is important, and sometimes we'll have people that are used to presenting in real life like college professors, and then they'll try doing it on a podcast. And we have to remind them that no one is ever gonna remember that number that you put out. Right? When you said the, the national debt grew at this percentage, and as you can see here, it's gone up. Right? If there was a chart with that, that might make sense. But you if you do that on a podcast, everybody will glaze over. Because the studies say that 70% of podcasts are listened to sped up. So you've gotta tell stories. Those are what's memorable.

Tom Schwab [00:39:08]:
So if you're making a point, tell a story along with it. And always think of what is the point of the story. Right? An anecdote to be an anecdote has to have and this is what it means. Connecting those dots for people can be very, very important. The other thing is that you want to be entertaining, educational, but also help people. And I have yet to meet somebody that is that good of a communicator that they can solve everybody's problems in 30 minutes. So make it easy for people. Tell them where they can find more.

Tom Schwab [00:39:53]:
Tell them the next step. And people like, well, I don't wanna be salesy. Never be salesy. Right? But how bad do you have to hate someone not to tell them where they can find more information? So maybe that could be your website. Maybe it could be, you know, your substack or maybe your podcast. But give them one place to go. And that's one of the things also to engage with the audience. Sometimes I'll be running at half speed, listening at 2 two times speed, and they'll get to the podcast in the end.

Tom Schwab [00:40:30]:
And, well, how do people find you? Well, here's my email. Here's my phone number. You can find me here on Instagram. You can find me here on Facebook. It's like, I I don't have time to write all of these things down. It's almost like being a parent. Right? If you give a kid a dozen choices for dessert, you'll get a meltdown. Make it easy for them to to choose a couple of things.

Tom Schwab [00:40:56]:
So give them one place to go and then give them different ways that they can say yes. Often digital marketers will just say, oh, just send them to a a squeeze page and one thing. No. Right? Send them to one place and meet them where they are. Right? Give them something that's a small yes. Doesn't take them a whole lot of time or money. Right? So, David, it could be, you know, come back to the website and check out the podcast. Right? Doesn't take them time or money, but if they liked you on a podcast, they would.

Tom Schwab [00:41:34]:
You know, the medium could always be something that takes a little bit more time or money. Case study. See how I work with people. And then that heck yes is if somebody hears you and you're the answer to prayer, don't slow them down in the funnel. Say, you know, you can come here and get my calendar scheduling link. Let's talk about engaging. So that's how to be entertaining, engaging, and helpful to audience.

David Hall [00:42:00]:
Yeah. I can remember the first podcast I was ever on. I said everything and I said, www, you know, go go here and here's how you get here. But now it's really like my quiet and strong.com website. It has everything. You can find anything you want from me. And we are definitely gonna get there, Tom. What's your one place people should go?

Tom Schwab [00:42:22]:
So I always make a welcome page for every interview. If you just want to see what a welcome page looks like, just go to interview valet with a v.comforward/qs, right, for quiet and strong. And you'll see what it looks like. And, you know, the things I always help people with, there's an assessment. Right? Ten questions. Will podcast interview marketing work for you? David was nice enough to mention my book. You can buy it on Amazon or if you want a free copy, just put your address there. I'll mail it to you if you're in the United States.

Tom Schwab [00:43:04]:
If you're overseas, I'll email it to you. And then finally, you know, if you heard this and you're like, I'd like to explore how I could leverage podcast interview marketing. If you'd like to talk with me, I'll put my calendar schedule and link there. That's all at interviewvalet.com forward slash qs. And, David, I made a bigger mistake when I first started out than saying www. I would say, just go to interview valet. And I said it really quick. And a buddy of mine said, why did you call it interview ballet? And I'm like, no.

Tom Schwab [00:43:44]:
It's interview ballet with a v. I said, interview ballet is stupid. And he's like, I think so too, but you say it so fast. That's what I heard. So that's another tip. People are listening sped up. So when you give where to go, when you're talking about important things, make sure you slow down.

David Hall [00:44:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's some good advice there. Tom, this has been a wonderful conversation. Is there anything else you want to add?

Tom Schwab [00:44:09]:
There's one thing that I it's one of my favorite phrases, and I say it to myself and others. It's what's ordinary to you is amazing to others. So often we overestimate what other people know and undervalue what we know. Right? What you know could help someone. And and we all have something today that could help clients with, could help other people with. And you've got to share that with them. Right? I used to be able to say, well, I'm here in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Who can I tell? Well, now with with the Internet, with everything like that, we can share it with people.

Tom Schwab [00:44:51]:
By writing, by speaking, be it a podcast guest or a host, we can do that. So I'd encourage people what's ordinary to you is amazing to others, and and please share it with them.

David Hall [00:45:02]:
Yeah. That's beautiful. Sometimes we're just too close to our own gifts to really appreciate what they are. Yeah. Alright. Thanks again, Tom. Really appreciate this conversation.

Tom Schwab [00:45:12]:
Thank you, David.

David Hall [00:45:13]:
Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com, or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media channels. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. If you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there's now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the 4 letter Myers Briggs code, and you can also have the option of purchasing the full report if you'd like to learn more. I'll add a link to the show notes. So many great things about being an introvert, and we need those to be understood.

David Hall [00:45:54]:
Get to know your introverted strengths and needs, and be strong.