Ep 210 - Navigating the Four Fears of Business with Guest Mark Franklin

Are you an introvert struggling to overcome common business fears? In this enlightening episode of the Quiet and Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with Mark Franklin, a speaker, mindset expert, and business strategist, to tackle the four fears that often hold business owners back: procrastination, perfectionism, imposter syndrome, and the fear of failure.

Mark shares his unique journey from graphic design to becoming a mindset coach and introduces his new book aimed at helping individuals embrace these fears. Listeners will learn valuable strategies for recognizing and managing these fears, understand the importance of clarity and bravery in business, and find ways to leverage their introverted strengths to achieve success. 

This episode is packed with actionable advice and inspirational stories that will empower you to confront and embrace your own business fears, helping you unlock your full potential. Listen in and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/210

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Mark Franklin is a speaker, mindset expert and business strategist with over 20 years’ experience supporting business owners to embrace their Four Fears® - the most common barriers preventing them from having the business and life) of their dreams.

Mark invests deeply in his clients’ stories, providing uplifting, relevant and engaging support to unlock the bravery and belief they need to pursue their happy path to success.

The Four Fears® Programmes are designed to move companies, team members and business owners from inertia to victory and find joy in that journey. Mark’s vision is to help others write a better story for themselves and their families.

Connect with Mark:

Website: MarkFranklin.co

Socials: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | Youtube

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
Gobio.link/quietandstrong
david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Transcript

Mark Franklin [00:00:00]:
And that's what the book is, really. It's, as I say, it's introduction. It's what are the fears, how do we turn them around, and how do we introduce sort of meaningful change, really, in your business and also in your life so that you more often than not think I can as opposed to I can't today. Again, it's it's very much about clarity and bravery, I think. So that was the first piece. The clarity is, again, two questions which recurve in every single chapter of the book. What is it you really, really want? And the second question, and why is that so important to you that you're prepared to take the brave action needed to make it happen?

David Hall [00:00:48]:
Hello, and welcome to episode two ten of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of QuietandStrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we'll learn each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or rating. That would mean a lot to me and also help others find the show.

David Hall [00:01:18]:
Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Mark Franklin is a speaker, mindset expert, and business strategist with over twenty years experience supporting business owners to embrace their four fears, the most common barriers preventing them from having the business and life of their dreams. Mark invests deeply in his clients' stories, providing uplifting, relevant, and engaging support to unlock the bravery and belief they need to pursue their happy path to success. The four fierce programs are designed to move companies, team members, and business owners from inertia to victory and find joy in that journey. Mark's vision is to help others write a better story for themselves and their families. Alright. Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Mark. It's so great to have you on today.

Mark Franklin [00:02:15]:
Well, thank you, David. It's a real real treat. I'm really honored to say. Very kind of you.

David Hall [00:02:19]:
Yeah. So we're gonna get into the work you do as the Four Fears guy. Tell us about your journey and to the work that you're doing now.

Mark Franklin [00:02:28]:
Okay. It's, I think it's an interesting story. So my background is design, design and communication. I was a graphic designer. That's what I studied at uni. And I've always been passionate about stories and storytelling. And I always saw my role as a designer of being sort of taking my client's story and sort of translating it in a way that really resonated with the audience that they were intending to connect to. So, yeah, that audience having their attention, imagination, and their heart captured essentially by the work we did.

Mark Franklin [00:02:58]:
And I love that. I was really passionate about it. Being creative was sort of, you know, very deep within my soul. And I joined a company, what would be, twenty five years ago now. I stayed there for twenty two years. Started as a designer, as a marketing designer. My job was to produce all these kind of leaflets catalog resources for a sales team. And it was a huge network of, independent business owners who sold the company's product and a commission on those sales.

Mark Franklin [00:03:26]:
And I got really excited because I thought, you know, I'm gonna produce these amazing catalogs and brochures and do all this stuff that kind of excite these people into doing a little bit more than they would otherwise do. That's that's my job. And what I learned over sort of that time within that company working with those sort of sellers was you can give them the greatest tools in the world. You can give them amazing catalogues and put on these big events and incentives and try and excite and inspire them to do something. But if they don't have it within themselves, if they're not connected to that, why am I doing this? What is it about this that's so important? I'm prepared to be brave and step outside my comfort zone, then things didn't tend to happen. And for me to better understand that, I spent more time with these sellers. Like, again, coming back to the story of telling, I listened to their stories. What is it that they really wanted? Again, why is that so important to them? What is it gonna take to move them to a place where they're ready to take brave action? And so within that kind of journey, I moved from being a designer into more exploring mindset, personal development, business development, leadership.

Mark Franklin [00:04:30]:
And I absolutely fell in love with seeing that movement from someone being where they currently are to where they deserve to be. And that's basically sort of the story as to where I am now because I did that more and more and more. Absolutely loved it. Long story short, the company I was in, I became managing director of that particular sort of section of the business. But, of course, that comes with the admin and logistics and finance and all things that don't excite me. Yeah. So after twenty three years or whatever it was, I said, nope. I'm gonna do the things I love.

Mark Franklin [00:05:04]:
I'm gonna stick to that moving people forward within their stories, but I'm gonna do it on my terms. And that's how I became the four Fears guy.

David Hall [00:05:13]:
Alright. That is a great story. Thank you. Yeah. That's what it's about. You know? Are people doing what they should be doing, you know, or are fears holding them back?

Mark Franklin [00:05:25]:
Yeah. Quite. Quite. Yeah. And that's, I think, what really sort of captured my imagination when I was working with these people. These kind of recurring hesitations seems that no matter what their background or what sort of personality or their energy and so on, whatever it was was holding it back, there was a commonality. These four fears. The same things kept cropping up and helping them embrace those wobbles, that's what I like to call them.

Mark Franklin [00:05:53]:
And, again, to see them make that shift was, yeah, incredibly rewarding.

David Hall [00:05:58]:
Yeah. And we're definitely gonna get more into that. But, of course, on this show, we talk about the strengths and needs and of introverts, and we bust some myths. So you are a fellow introvert. What's the strength that you have because you're an introvert?

Mark Franklin [00:06:11]:
It's a really good question. Looking back and again, as I've mentioned to you, I think I embraced my introversion sort of relatively recently. But something that I think resonates with a lot of intro introverts is that we're great listeners. We don't necessarily want to be a center of attention. We have great ideas, and we can contribute a lot. But sometimes we just get energy from sitting back and absorbing what's going on in the room. And through that listening, I think we're better at con contributing. And, that's something that, for me, I like to think is is a strength of mine.

Mark Franklin [00:06:45]:
Again, listening to those people's stories, better understanding, and receiving that energy from them that I can then kind of turn back and say, right. Let's help you do something about this.

David Hall [00:06:53]:
Yeah. And that sounds like that really plays into the very current work that you're doing is that listening to other people's stories and

Mark Franklin [00:07:02]:
For sure. For sure. Yeah. And, again, you know, just just thinking about my own relationship with sort of introversion. It it is a wonderful opportunity just to be in a room with people and be lifted by their energy. I know a lot of people talk about introverts being, oh, you know, they're better off when they're on their own. That kind of solitude is where they recharge and and, you know, where they get back on track. For me, not always.

Mark Franklin [00:07:31]:
I think there's sort of yeah. There's different rooms that give you different things back. And I like to be in a room with people who energize and excite me and and, you know, give give me something to think about.

David Hall [00:07:44]:
Well, that was my next question. You brilliantly answered it. So we bust miss on this show. And I don't I don't like the definition where people just say, yeah. The main difference is, you know, people drain us, and we get our energy from being alone. I think that's so oversimplified. And what you just said is so true. It's like we do need to reach our share, but we love ideas.

David Hall [00:08:11]:
And being in in the right room with the right people, we absolutely can get energized by that. You know? And it's just it's when we're in the wrong room and and maybe the wrong people or certain activities, that's what really can train us, and we need to be aware of those things. Maybe sometimes we can have less of those things in our life, but sometimes, you know, even some things we just need to be aware. Okay. I'm gonna need to recharge after this. But I love that you said that sometimes you do get energy from certain conversations because we love ideas.

Mark Franklin [00:08:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, again, sort of playing into another sort of myth perhaps that needs busting. When we're receiving that energy, again, it gives us, I think, the confidence and a little bit of clarity as well to contribute, to give back. And, again, you know, there's that sort of belief that quite introverts will sit there, and they don't wanna put their hand up. They don't want to sort of speak out or stand out or be the center of attention. I'm I'm one of those I don't like being the center of attention, but equally as a sort of speaker, as a sort of coach, you need to be at the front of the room. And I thoroughly enjoy that because in that moment, I'm thinking everything that I've just received, I I can turn that back into something even more positive.

Mark Franklin [00:09:30]:
And, yes, afterwards, I might need to go and sort of, you know, have some quiet time. But, again, as you rightly say, David, when you're with the right people, it's it's it's a wonderful feeling. It's it's, you know, it's really powerful.

David Hall [00:09:43]:
Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Absolutely. So that leads us into tell us about your new book that's coming out soon, how to embrace the four fears of business ownership.

Mark Franklin [00:09:57]:
Sure. So the four fears is the core, really, of the work I do. It's the premise is that we all have hesitations in terms of what it is we want to achieve and why that's important to us. I've broken those hesitations down into the four most common sort of themes, which are procrastination, perfectionism, imposter syndrome, and that fear of failure. I I refer to them as the I'm not ready. I'm not good enough. I don't have time. And what if I fail? And those are the sort of little whispers that our kind of, you know, mind monkeys kind of put in our own ears to sort of suggest that perhaps we don't do something today.

Mark Franklin [00:10:40]:
And the book is essentially introducing those fears, explaining what they are, breaking them down in terms of how actually those fears are nothing more than matters of opinion. And those opinions, the the kind of breadth of that opinion in terms of something like a fear of failure at one end of the scales. At the other end of the scales is sort of your opportunity. Where do you currently sit in that balance on the scales? And what within the conversation we might have can we do to move you away from failure and closer to the belief that instead of I can't because I might get it wrong, I can and I deserve to because the opportunity to get it right actually excites me and is something that is important to me. And that's what the book is really. It's, as I say, it's introduction. It's what are the fears, how do we turn them around, and how do we introduce sort of meaningful change, really, in your business and also in your life so that you more often than not think I can as opposed to I can't today.

David Hall [00:11:44]:
So we're gonna get into each of the four. But in general, how do you embrace these four fears? How do you change your mindset around them?

Mark Franklin [00:11:54]:
Again, it's it's very much about clarity and bravery, I think. So that was the first piece. The clarity is, again, two questions which recur in every single chapter of the book. What is it you really, really want? And the second question, and why is that so important to you that you're prepared to take the brave action needed to make it happen? And that clarity, I mean, we're, yeah, digging into sort of similar places in terms of, like, you know, silence in it. Start with why. But if you are connected to that sort of very deep driver that's unique to you, the closer you are to that, the easier it becomes to think actually the risks I need to take, the brave actions I need to take, the things that I wouldn't otherwise do because I'm hesitating, I am more inclined to embrace those and say yes and try them because they are so important to me. It is worth the possible failure if you want to sort of look at it like that. And as we get into each one, there's kind of different techniques and things, but they they overlap actually.

Mark Franklin [00:12:59]:
The four fears, I think it's worth saying that there's a lot of kind of yes. They they interweave. So it's it's never as simple as just saying, yeah. Oh, I I think I don't have time. Oh, of course you do. You know, it's it's much more sort of, you know, delicate and, personal as well. So it's it's very unique to each individual.

David Hall [00:13:18]:
Yeah. And that's the key. What what what do you want to accomplish? And we talk about that in terms of introversion too. It's like, you can get whatever you want. What is it that you want? And then figure out what you have to what your strengths are to get to get whatever you want. But that's that's the first thing. And why is that important to you?

Mark Franklin [00:13:37]:
Completely. Yeah. I I think sort of, again, the introversion piece plays along quite nicely again from my own experience. And there's a a sort of a slightly autobiographical element to sort of, you know, my relationship with the four fears. But you're absolutely right. It's that clarity around knowing what it is you want, knowing what it is you need to do it, and finding the way that's right for you to actually make that happen.

David Hall [00:14:02]:
Yeah. So what do you say to the person that says they're not ready? Maybe they're starting a business or trying to write a book or or something.

Mark Franklin [00:14:12]:
So yeah. Yeah. I mean, that the not ready fear is in many ways, as I say, perfectionism. It's the, you know, I'm not going to do this thing because it's not as beautiful as it needs to be. It's not as perfect as it needs to be. I've gotta spend a bit more time changing the colors and the fonts and all that that kind of stuff. I wouldn't say it's a solution, but sort of the approach that I was sort of introduced is this idea of what does good enough today actually look like? Because, again, thinking about how the fears overlap. When you say I'm not ready or this project isn't ready, what you're actually saying is it's not good enough yet, and I'm slightly nervous about putting out there in case their action isn't as positive as I would like.

Mark Franklin [00:14:59]:
So what does good enough need to look like for you today? And as we were sort of talking about earlier, good enough today actually, this was something I think you mentioned on your one of your recent shows. Good enough today is one thing, and it gives you the the confidence to think about what is good enough look like tomorrow. So just having that kind of brave set forward in terms of okay. Just talk a little bit about perfectionism actually because everyone says, well, there's no such thing as perfect. Again, I think perfectionism or perfection is entirely subjective. And today, perfect might be monotony to you. It could just be it could be the cup of coffee that I have after we've recorded. It's just like, you know, I'm feeling very pleased with the conversation we had, and that coffee just tastes great.

Mark Franklin [00:15:44]:
And I'm like, oh, this is perfect. Mhmm. It's something as simple as that. But the pursuit of perfection as a sort of end goal is a very dangerous game to play because you will never achieve ultimate perfection. But the journey, those incremental steps of this is what good enough looks like today. Tomorrow will be a little bit better, and so on and so on. But each day I'm putting something out there, I'm learning, and I'm growing. That to me, again, if you can readjust that vision of what good enough looks like for you today and embrace that, then you're ready.

David Hall [00:16:17]:
Yeah. And if you don't do that, is it you're gonna always feel like you're not good enough and you're never gonna start or that thing that you wanna do?

Mark Franklin [00:16:26]:
Okay. Because of how the sort of fears overlap. So let's just say, if if you're outwardly saying, I don't think I'm ready. As the conversation kinda gets deeper, we kind of uncover that what we're really talking about here is you don't think it's good enough. And therefore, you're not setting aside the time to do that thing even though, you know, you know it's really important. This is a thing that could potentially be the game changer. I then like to sort of think of it as me telling somebody, but, of course, you're ready. Again, this is another sort of really interesting observation I've kinda picked up over many, many years, and I'm sure you recognize this too.

Mark Franklin [00:17:02]:
Everyone outside of your own mind can see that you are good enough, can see that you are ready. They're happy to lift you up. They'll support you. You know, as you move forward, they'll celebrate your wins and your victories far more naturally than you will celebrate them yourself. You kind of miss or overlook those little successes. So even if you decide not to do something today because you're still convinced that you're you're not ready. Hopefully, what the book will kind of introduce and, again, the work that I do is around the but let's just let's just reevaluate that little voice in your head that says I'm not ready. I'm not good enough.

Mark Franklin [00:17:42]:
I don't have time. Are those whispers true? Are they helpful? Let's so there's a chapter in the book. Which one I wrote here, I had no idea it was gonna end up like this, but it's actually a play. So it's literally a script for a play. And the premise of the play is we take your fears to court. And we challenge them in the court of law to essentially dismiss them, to disprove them. Because as I say, they are a matter of opinion. Typically, those fears are born out of an emotional opinion as opposed to a sort of more logical and factual opinion.

Mark Franklin [00:18:15]:
And if you lean into the the cold, hard facts, again, of, you know, just how far you've already come, all the things you have achieved, all the successes, you know, that you can tick off your list, the thing that you did yesterday that perhaps you weren't ready to do but haven't noticed that, you know, that's brought you a little bit of progress. Suddenly, it becomes a little bit easier for the individual to reflect on, maybe I'm a little bit more ready than I thought I was. Maybe I'm a little bit better at this than I thought I was. And, again, that's where we start finding that bravery that accompanies the clarity of, well, this is what I need to do. So perhaps tomorrow, I will do that thing. I hope that makes sense.

David Hall [00:18:56]:
And this is very related to you also talk about imposter syndrome. Yeah. What is that, and how do we overcome it?

Mark Franklin [00:19:04]:
So imposter syndrome, again, my I feel like there's thousands of books written on it and podcasts and all sorts of things. My take on it, again, is that little voice in your head saying I'm not good enough. It's the comparisonitis. It's the looking sideways of what will other people think of me when I do this. And in terms of embracing imposter syndrome, again, I think we're sort of exploring that sort of definition of how good am I at this today. Again, embracing good enough and dialing down some of that hesitation of the only person or the only the only voice that's saying out loud other people might not like this and this might not go well is that little mind monkey. Typically, no one else is watching you and expecting you to not be good enough. So we need to, again, compare the kind of the version of the story which is based in fact and the version of the story that's based in emotion.

Mark Franklin [00:20:05]:
And start introducing this idea to our mind in that the more we lean into the fact, the more likely it is that we'll take the positives from those hesitations. But, again, there's there's a story in the book, and this is my own kind of origin story around sort of imposter syndrome and the fear of failure. But I won't tell the whole story. But, essentially, at the end of the story, there was a decision for me to make. It was either leaning to the emotion of that wasn't good enough or leaning to the fact of that's actually quite a remarkable achievement. I lent into the emotion. Had I lent into lent into the fact, and this is the kind of, you know, the beauty of hindsight, what would that have led to? And that realization is something that's kind of, again, driven my passion for ensuring that when I'm working with clients or having conversations, I can do I try to do whatever it is I can to help somebody lean more into the fact.

David Hall [00:21:03]:
Yeah. And while you were talking, I was thinking that we often think more about ourselves than anybody else is. Right? Everybody is kind of preoccupied with themselves, and and we're more concerned than than somebody else is. You know, we're we're harder on ourselves than others are.

Mark Franklin [00:21:21]:
Very much so. Yeah. We we see 100% of everything we do. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, when you're sort of constantly sort of trying to put your message out on social media, a lot of businesses obviously use social media to kind of enhance their brand and grow their audience. And you can very easily sort of slip into your own mind of, well, that post didn't go very well and nobody reacted to that. Oh, dear. And it's like, well, you've seen everything you've did.

Mark Franklin [00:21:43]:
You know, the algorithm is working against you. So this isn't you not being good enough. This is you know, there's other things going on here, but you're the only one probably worrying about those those things. Actually, I mean, interesting coming back to kind of the introversion conversation around being you know, surrounding yourself with people who give you energy. That's another kind of way to embrace the fears. Again, it's it's that cheer those cheerleaders, I guess, essentially, who who are reminding you that that thing you did yesterday, that was really cool. Why don't you do it again?

David Hall [00:22:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's key if we can have those kind of people. What do you say to the person that says they don't have time?

Mark Franklin [00:22:23]:
This I always smile at this one. This is it's kind of my favorite for a slightly sort of cruel reason. The I don't have time fear is the one that I think people lead with. So for all sorts of very obvious reasons, you know, people don't like to open up and share their vulnerabilities immediately. Yeah. So no one's gonna typically put their hand up straight away and say, I don't think I'm good enough. You know, I'm a complete failure. The I don't have time is a kind of it's a nice fear to begin with because it feels like it's based in fact.

Mark Franklin [00:22:58]:
I, you know, literally do not have time to do this thing, so you're not going to challenge me too much in terms of why I can't find time to do it. So it's for me, it's that kind of that slightly firsthand raised in terms of the I think I think I might need a little bit of help here, but I'm not prepared yet to have that deeper conversation. And I think there's a sort of a danger with the whole sort of time management productivity conversation because it's very easy for us to sort of turn around and say, well, of course, you have time. Everyone has the same twenty four hours in the day. If you know what it is that's important to you, just do that first and, you know, stop procrastinating procrastinating around those sort of distractions. Just just do it. And that kind of just do it mantra could be very unhelpful because there's a deeper reason why. We know there's something we need to do, but we're choosing not to do it.

Mark Franklin [00:23:58]:
And, again, it links back into the, I don't think it's ready. It's not perfect enough. I don't think I'm good enough. So I'm not going to think about that yet, or I'm gonna do my very best to avoid that for now and do something that gives me a little bit of satisfaction, but means ultimately that I don't have to face up to that fear. So when I'm talking to somebody about not having enough time, there's kind of two elements, I suppose, to the conversation. Firstly, we actually do the sort of, you know, okay. Let's look at how you are using your time. But, again, coming back to that clarity and bravery.

Mark Franklin [00:24:32]:
If you are so clear on what it is that you really want, it becomes a little bit easier to take the brave action even though that's the thing on your to do list that feels a little bit a bit of a stretch right now.

David Hall [00:24:46]:
How do you help people get clarity?

Mark Franklin [00:24:48]:
It comes back to the listening. It's so much as I can't do this for you. You're the person who still needs to take that action. You're the person who needs to decide what direction you're setting for your business and life and so on and so forth. But letting you have the time and the space to think about that in conversation and just let that flow, let you kind of have those moments of, you know, you'll say something. So interestingly, just to sort of give an example, I was having a conversation with somebody I've known for quite a long time or at the start of the week, and they were talking about resetting their business direction. And I asked them what their goal was, and they came up with four or five different goals. It's like, okay.

Mark Franklin [00:25:28]:
Each one of those goals has value, but which one do you really want? And what is it about all those goals that kind of actually all overlap? Because there's something behind each of those that's a bit deeper, but that pulls the whole piece together. But just by sort of nudging and teasing and inviting the conversation, a person sort of started to find that clarity around, no. It isn't just about the money. No. It isn't about the recognition or the validation. Just no. It isn't about the standing on stage and, you know, receiving the awards. There's actually something behind all this, which drives all three of those as being elements of that validation.

Mark Franklin [00:26:06]:
But it it does it. It does come back to letting that person discover it from themselves. That's that's the true power. If if we find it for ourselves rather than being told it, then it resonates so much more deeply, and therefore, it's easier to commit to being brave.

David Hall [00:26:24]:
Yeah. And that clarity is so important because I know, you know, that we can't do everything. Right? There is a time factor there, and we have to decide what is most important to us and figure out how to accomplish that. And we also have to figure out what's not important to us, and there may be things that we're doing that we don't need to do. I know I've I've tried to do everything, and it doesn't doesn't work.

Mark Franklin [00:26:53]:
No. No. And particularly, yeah, when we're sort of running our own businesses, we have to wear all of those hats. And some of those hats really excite us. Again, coming back to sort of energy, some of those hats really kind of invigorate us, and we really enjoy giving time to those actions. But in terms of that greater sort of big business wish, whether those actions actually serve that journey or not is the kind of the more challenging question that we need to get into. And if they don't, then you get into the kind of what I call act, auction, avoid. Is this something you need to act on? Is it something you can delegate or, as you say, David, get rid of it.

Mark Franklin [00:27:33]:
Yeah. Chuck it out of the list and try and forget about it.

David Hall [00:27:37]:
Yeah. For sure. And then your other fear, how do we overcome the fear of failure? What is the fear of failure, and how does that hold us back?

Mark Franklin [00:27:45]:
This is a really interesting one. I think this is where the that sort of that difference of opinion really kind of comes into play. Because the difference between, as I said earlier, failure and danger, if you wanna call it that, a kind of success and opportunity. It is that it is that matter of opinion. So whatever you do today, how you view it tomorrow in terms of was that a success or was that a failure, it's, again, it's entirely your opinion, and it is yours. It's very personal. And in terms of embracing the idea of failure because failure can be sort of one of the greatest gifts you actually give to your business because it's a huge learning opportunity. And by viewing a perceived failure, let's say we're sort of doing air quotes with my fingers, by viewing a perceived failure more sort of logically and less emotionally, and, again, taking away the what went well, what could be even better if.

Mark Franklin [00:28:44]:
Just being a little bit more pragmatic about it can extend you in better stead in terms of trying again tomorrow because the more emotional we feel about them and the more we get caught up in the again, coming back to the imposter syndrome and the that didn't go very well. What would other people think of me when they saw me do that? Perhaps I shouldn't try that again. But that's the end result. The more emotional we are, the less likely we are to try again. The more factual and pragmatic and sort of sensible, I suppose, that we are around the particular experience, the more likely we are to give it another go. And it's where we sit on those scales currently. And, again, through conversation and digging into that, sort of the clarity in the where you want to go. Building the kind of habits that allow us every day to be more inclined to view something with less noise in terms of those mind monkeys, those emotions, less noise and more sort of sense and calmness and, yeah, curiosity as well, I think, is a good word.

David Hall [00:29:49]:
Yeah. And, you know, just reflecting back on talking with so many people and my own experiences, learning often comes from failing at something or perceived failure as you put it because it's really it's learning. Right? I Absolutely. It's it's experience that makes us better, and sometimes we're just afraid to have that experience.

Mark Franklin [00:30:12]:
For sure. Yeah. There's some I mean, again, in in the book, there's sort of a a diagram around sort of comfort zones by getting to explaining that, you know, your next opportunity just sits outside of the where you are in this kind of diagram right now. Yeah. So there's a kind of perceived barrier within your comfort zone, which you're happy to stay in. But, of course, if you stay there, nothing new happens. You don't grow. So you have to reach beyond that line.

Mark Franklin [00:30:41]:
And what is it that's going to give you the the bravery, the motivation, the confidence to try that today?

David Hall [00:30:49]:
Yeah. And it's it's interesting because we do have to get out of our comfort zones, but we also have to change our thoughts around those fears that we have because, otherwise, you just get out of your comfort zone over and over and over again. And many people have gotten out of their comfort zone, but they haven't changed their thoughts around it. So then the next time, they have to get out of it again and again, and I I see that too often.

Mark Franklin [00:31:17]:
Indeed. And it's sort of an important sort of element that backs all of this up is is that building of valuable habits. So, again, every time you take that step forward, you use that as a learning experience to give you the confidence to start building the resilience and the momentum to take that next step. Because it's not you know, every time you step outside your comfort zone, it's not gonna be hundreds and sec success guaranteed.

David Hall [00:31:44]:
That's great. There'll

Mark Franklin [00:31:45]:
still be bubbles. You know? And in those bubbles, you're still gonna have that that didn't go very well or, you know, perhaps I won't do that again. Again, all those kind of little little fears will sort of reappear because we can't cure ourselves of them. We're not gonna get rid of them forever because because we're human. You know? And part of our DNA and, you know, part of our charm is that we are sort of fragile and vulnerable, and that makes us, I think, sort of more more caring. I think I think it I think they're lovely positives to take from these kind of hesitations. You know, we want to do better. We want again, coming back to the sort of the journey towards perfectionism.

Mark Franklin [00:32:21]:
It's not the destination, but it is those little steps that, you know, make us grow and make us sort of better human beings. But there's definitely the need to, say, build those kind of habits so that you're more inclined when you have that wobble, that next wobble, to still want to move forward as opposed to sort of slipping right back into, you know, sort of retreating into that tiny little comfort zone at the heart of of everything.

David Hall [00:32:47]:
Yeah. So, you know, as, as as a author, did you did you have to get over that fear of failure yourself? I know that I did in in writing my a book. Did you have to get over that fear of failure?

Mark Franklin [00:33:01]:
I didn't, actually. Okay. And I think I think it's because what I found in writing the book I'm not gonna say it was easy, and it isn't published yet. So, you know, I've I have got that sort of fear of well, that fear of no one's gonna read it. No one's gonna buy it. No one's gonna like it. And, also and I was joking with, my editor yesterday. You know? I know that when we press print, there's gonna be a a typo.

Mark Franklin [00:33:25]:
There's gonna be something that when I read it back and think I need to change that, but that's okay. I'm perfectly comfortable with that because this is just a first edition and there will be iterations. But, no, I I wasn't caught up in the failure around the book. I think what I've really enjoyed is the kind of whole cathartic experience of taking all this knowledge, all those conversations, all of the stories that, you know, I've been a tiny little bit of involved in in terms of, you know, thousands of people that I've sort of, you know, seen make that shift from where they are to where they wanna be. I put it all down and kind of reflect on it as I write it. And if anything, I think it's helped me refine what it is I want to do next with the four fears. And and, again, find that or reconnect to a deeper clarity around why this is important to me, why I want to make this work. And yeah.

Mark Franklin [00:34:18]:
No. No fail no fear of failure, but definitely a lot of excitement.

David Hall [00:34:24]:
That's wonderful. And part of that, you you said, you know, you had you you it's there might be an error, and, you know, that's normal because we are people. And trust me, I understand that because, definitely, there's probably some error in my book, and you go over it so many times. You know? And you have other people go over it. You know? You have editors. And so, yeah, I I love that. What what was really the driving force to really put out a book for you?

Mark Franklin [00:34:50]:
I think my hope for the book is that it introduces the fears in a way that people will become comfortable with. And, again, they themselves will embrace sort of the the knowledge that being fearful occasionally is okay. And here are some things that you can do to kind of dial down those fears. As I sort of said earlier, nobody likes to sort of pop their hand and say, I'm feeling really vulnerable. I'm struggling with procrastination. I'm struggling with perfectionism. I'm struggling with imposter syndrome. Those aren't conversations yet.

Mark Franklin [00:35:18]:
People don't dive on me when I walk into the room and say, hey. You know, four fierce guy. I need your help. Because these are very sort of deep and personal conversations. You know? You know, in those conversations, we will go to places that, you know, mean an awful lot to that person. So it's a very gentle, delicate, sensitive kind of way of working. So my hope for the book is that it just gives people, again, a little bit of confidence, a little bit of sort of comfort around having these fears is okay. Don't feel you have to get rid of them.

Mark Franklin [00:35:51]:
As I say, there's no such thing as perfect perfect. It's all subjective. But there is a way to kind of lift some of that burden of hesitation, and here are some useful tips to help you do that. It's a very I should say it's a very interactive book as well. There's kind of chapter activities in each section of things. What I really want people to do is just scribble over it and devour it. One of the sort of things that's really important, I think, when you're talking about sort of, you know, sort of mindset and hesitation is it's okay to say these things out loud, but nothing changes until you take action. So, again, one of my hopes for the book is it will encourage people to take action even if it is just scribbling all over it, trying some of the exercises, and, yeah, having some fun with with the ideas that it presents.

David Hall [00:36:37]:
What are the common things that people are coming to you with that they are fearful about?

Mark Franklin [00:36:43]:
As I say, I it is that sort of combination of of the four fears. I I hope again, this is kind of sort of my my sort of big business wish, is that those those four fears do resonate. And, certainly, when I'm speaking to people, there's definitely that those elements of, I don't think I'm ready to make this change. My business has got to a certain point. We need to take, you know, the next step. I don't know if we're ready. Is this the right time? This is why the work that I do starts with the whole mindset conversation, and then we get into sort of business strategy. Because, again, once you know what it is that's been holding you back and you're ready to embrace that and step through the kind of door, then you gotta take actions.

Mark Franklin [00:37:24]:
And what does that action actually look like? But so far, I haven't been surprised by a fifth or sixth fear.

David Hall [00:37:33]:
Okay.

Mark Franklin [00:37:35]:
You never say never. There is again, there's a chapter in the book. One of the things that does crop up actually, I should mention. Some people say, oh, what about the fifth fear of this fear of not making enough money? Surely, that's a you know, that's one. And if there is a conversation that I have that isn't directly linked to to those first four, it normally is about sort of finance. But I would turn that around, I suppose, in so much as what what does enough money look like, and what do you mean by enough money? And, again, when we kinda get into it, we all typically equate money with success. So the more money I have, the more successful I've been, which therefore means if I haven't got enough money, I haven't been successful enough, which kind of leads us into that I haven't been good enough, therefore, I have failed. And it all kind of falls back into the those same force root, the thoughts.

David Hall [00:38:24]:
Well, it's definitely important to have enough money. So, you know, that's something that people need to figure out, and maybe that's your next book. Good thing. But

Mark Franklin [00:38:34]:
what what does enough look like?

David Hall [00:38:35]:
You know? Yeah. And that's that's that's different for everybody. Right?

Mark Franklin [00:38:39]:
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. There's I've been reading a great book at the moment by Bill Perkins, die with a zero. Don't know if you've heard of that one. But the premise there is essentially when you finally pass, you you've no money left on the table because you've used all of your earnings to live an incredibly fulfilled and rich life, which, again, what does that look like for each of us? That that's the bigger question, but it's it's a interesting premise.

David Hall [00:39:04]:
Yeah. Definitely. And I I think that probably is. You know? If you're doing something different, like, you know, like yourself, you went out on your own, you do have to think about, okay. Well, I still I I have a family to support. I still Yeah. I still need to earn so much. So you just have to not not have a fear, but really figure that out how that's gonna work.

Mark Franklin [00:39:26]:
For sure. Yeah. Because yeah. Again, it's a very, very brave thing to to go out on your own. Not talking about sort of myself necessarily, but everybody, everybody that I've come into contact with who's running their own business. And it's interesting when I sort of first went out my own, I suddenly noticed just how many of my friends have been running their own businesses for years. It's like, oh my goodness. How did I not see this? Yeah.

Mark Franklin [00:39:50]:
These are incredibly brave people who are putting everything, you know, of themselves into these businesses. And I hadn't even recognized it, so that's bad on my part. But but, yeah, again, it comes back to you, hopefully, it's that this is something that's so important to me that I will I will push you in and give it my absolute best.

David Hall [00:40:10]:
Yeah. And we're we're and that's where we're right back to is what do you want? What is most important to you? And then how am I gonna do that? Yeah.

Mark Franklin [00:40:19]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

David Hall [00:40:21]:
Alright, Mark. This has been a brilliant conversation. Is there anything else you wanna add?

Mark Franklin [00:40:26]:
No. Not really. I mean, I've just again, really grateful. I love I love talking about the four fears. Again, coming back to the purpose behind the book. The more we talk about them, the easier it becomes to kind of, you know, reduce the impact they have. So, no, just thank you, David, for the opportunity to, yeah, to share the four fears.

David Hall [00:40:44]:
Alright. And where can people find out more about you and your upcoming book?

Mark Franklin [00:40:49]:
The website's really easy. So it's markfranklin.co.uk. I'm all over LinkedIn, possibly too much. See, that's that's my mind monkey creeping in there. Yeah. So link LinkedIn, Instagram, but, yeah, the website and, hopefully, the book will be out, yes, in the next week or so. So by the February, it should be available to all.

David Hall [00:41:09]:
Alright. Well, thanks again.

Mark Franklin [00:41:11]:
Thank you, David. Really appreciate it.

David Hall [00:41:13]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more.

David Hall [00:41:50]:
Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert, and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.