Ep 212 - Networking for Introverts: Building Connections with Confidence with guest Michelle Warner

How can introverts build meaningful, purposeful connections in a way that aligns with their natural strengths? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall welcomes Michelle Warner, a business strategist and introverted networking expert, to discuss strategies that empower introverts to create and nurture valuable networks with confidence and intention.

Listeners will discover practical tools tailored for introverts, such as the power of setting clear networking goals, finding ideal connections, and fostering long-term relationships. Michelle shares smart approaches like using structured assignments, creating purposeful projects, and mastering the art of small, meaningful asks to gradually strengthen relationships without overwhelm. You'll also hear eye-opening insights into how extroverts face their own networking challenges, and how building the right network—rather than the biggest one—can lead to professional and personal success.

Whether you're an introverted business owner, creative, or professional looking to confidently grow your connections, this episode is packed with actionable advice and inspiring stories to guide your journey. Learn how to embrace your natural talents, honor your needs, and build connections that matter. Gain clarity, confidence, and effective strategies to make networking work for YOU.

Listen in, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/212

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Michelle Warner designs tiny companies that are built for the long run. With an MBA from one of the world’s top business schools and 15+ years growing small businesses, Michelle knows how to help you diagnose and fix what’s not working while designing a new iteration of your business that will work for you.

She’s also the creator of Networking That Pays, the introvert-friendly, always awkward-free connection system that delivers reliable leads, consistent referrals and meaningful connections.

Connect with Michelle

Website: TheMichelleWarner.com

Podcast: Sequence Over Strategy

Socials: LinkedIn

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
Gobio.link/quietandstrong
david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Transcript

Michelle Warner [00:00:00]:
Because a lot of the problem with introversion is when you're just dropped into a room or you're just dropped onto the Internet and told meet people. It's a sequence over strategy problem. There's 10 steps you should take before you get dropped into that space. And when we're just dropped in that space without any of that preparation, we panic, understandably, because I'm not getting into a small room and figuring out how to make small talk with people. But if I have an assignment, and if I know when I'm there, honestly, I'm still probably going to skip the event because there are better ways to do it. But if I have a purpose for reaching out to someone, I can reach out to them. It's when I'm just told to vaguely go meet people that it gets real ugly.

David Hall [00:00:53]:
Hello, and welcome to episode 212 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix but to be embraced. Normally, we'll learn each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and also help others find the show.

David Hall [00:01:23]:
Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Michelle Warner designs tiny companies that are built for the long run. With an MBA from one of the world's top business schools and fifteen plus years growing small businesses, Michelle knows how to help you diagnose and fix what's not working while designing a new iteration of your business that will work for you. She's also the creator of Networking That Pays, the introvert friendly, always awkward free connection system that delivers reliable leads, consistent referrals, and meaningful connections. Alright. Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Michelle. Michelle, so great to have you on today.

Michelle Warner [00:02:08]:
Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me.

David Hall [00:02:10]:
Yeah. And it is I was telling you, I heard you on a different podcast, and you were just talking about building networks and building relationships, how important it was, but in a introverted manner, you know, a way that really works for introverts because we want to build relationships. We need to build relationships. But maybe our extroverted colleague or friend, they're gonna do it a different way.

Michelle Warner [00:02:35]:
That's exactly the thing. It's different. And I think a lot of times introverts then think it's maybe not possible because you see the extroverts. They're very visible and very energetic, and we and so we end up labeling that as the correct way to do it. And let me tell you, extroverts kind of screw up building their network as well. And so there's nothing magical over there. And it is just different approaches.

David Hall [00:02:58]:
John Yeah. So let's start with that. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey. When you figured out you were an introvert, you know, and, you know, how you got to the work you're doing today.

Michelle Warner [00:03:08]:
Yeah. It's kinda funny. I don't remember a time when I didn't know I was an introvert. I don't know if I always had a label for it, but I've it's just how I've always operated. And, you know, how I how I got to where I am now was I was in very traditional marketing, mass marketing for a lot of my career in both higher education, nonprofit, small business development. Went and got my MBA at the University of Chicago. And when I did that, I got involved in entrepreneurship, ended up after I graduated. I graduated right into the great recession, so it was not a great time to have an you know, be coming out with an MBA degree.

Michelle Warner [00:03:44]:
But I had a great opportunity to go be a founder for hire, essentially. A long story short, a foundation had some assets that they wanted a business created out of. So they hired me as a tech startup founder, which is weird to be hired into that role, but through a nonprofit scheme, I kind of was. So I was a very normal looking tech startup executive and founder for about five or six years. And then that company was doing really well, and I like the early messy stages. So I left that in some very capable hands. They are still killing it and went on my own about ten, twelve years ago.

David Hall [00:04:21]:
So you kind of fell into what you're doing now?

Michelle Warner [00:04:24]:
A little bit. Yeah. Actually, my customers from my tech startup showed me a little bit of this world of really small, small solo businesses. And I got really interested in it and thought, hey, I have been in business development, building businesses for, at that point, ten, fifteen years. And I thought I can really help these folks who have a skill and are going out on their own, but don't necessarily know how to sustainably run the actual business part of it.

David Hall [00:04:51]:
Yeah. So you call the work that you're doing sequence over strategy. You also have a podcast by the same name. Tell us about that.

Michelle Warner [00:05:00]:
Yeah, that's just my overarching belief is that the order in which you do things is more important than how well you do any of them. So you could have the most brilliant podcast, you could have the most brilliant course or the most brilliant content, whatever. If you're not deploying that in the right order of your business development cycles, it's not going to do as much as it could. It's not that it won't do anything, but a lot of times we get caught up in those upper level strategies. Oh, I see this thing working really well for somebody. You know, I always laugh about, like, dancing on TikTok or whatever strategy it might be. We we glom onto these marketing or product strategies and get really caught up in those, and they're and then we wonder if they're they're not perfect. And a lot of times, they're not perfect because you didn't have a bunch of the foundation in place.

Michelle Warner [00:05:48]:
You didn't do it in the right order. So I talk a lot about that sequence over strategy, just reminding folks, look a little bit below the surface, you know, look at your foundation before you chase every shiny object that's out there.

David Hall [00:06:00]:
Yeah. Do you have any examples you could share about that?

Michelle Warner [00:06:04]:
Yeah. You know, it's really common for somebody to one of my favorites is that they get confused in their marketing. So I talk about every marketing strategy that you could have lays on a continuum between what I call relationship marketing or traffic marketing. And traffic marketing is the really visible marketing we see. You know, you're on social media. It's kind of mass marketing. You're trying to find a lot of people. Relationship marketing is more, you know, built in relationships, and it's much more of a one to one or one to a few approach.

Michelle Warner [00:06:35]:
And a lot of times, somebody who might have a service based business or something that would be well served by relationship marketing, because you don't need a ton of leads. Right? Maybe you need 50 leads to close 10 pieces of business a year. You don't need thousands of them. So if you're in that service based business, a lot of times you're living on referrals, and then you decide, oh, I should do more. I should probably start some marketing so that I'm more in control of my business. And then what happens is all of a sudden, they completely overcorrect and skip all the other relationship marketing strategies they might have available to them, mostly because we don't talk about it very often. And they go all the way over to mass marketing, and they start trying to build a list and email that list daily or dance on TikTok or create hundred thousand followers on LinkedIn, whatever it may be. And then those people still aren't buying the services package because people who are randomly following you on LinkedIn are not gonna buy a $50,000 B2B corporate consulting contract.

Michelle Warner [00:07:35]:
And so that's what we're talking about, like if you start chasing those strategies, if you're just a service provider feeling this urge like, oh my gosh, I better start marketing, and you don't think in terms of sequence and instead you just start grabbing any strategy you see out there, it's highly likely you're gonna grab the wrong strategies. Where if we talk in sequence, first we're gonna say, okay, where am I on that marketing continuum of, you know, where do I lay? Am I kind of a relationship person? Am I a traffic person? And then what strategies match for that? And that is a way that you're gonna save yourself a lot of time and grief. Right? It's not like you're never gonna make a sale if your marketing is misaligned. You're gonna get lucky here and there. But in the business world, we call it like there's too much noise in your model or inefficiency. You're doing way too much work to achieve those sales. Whereas if we can get you aligned and ask that question first of what are you what are the marketing strategies that are in alignment for you? You're just going to make progress faster, and we're going to level out that entrepreneurial roller coaster.

David Hall [00:08:35]:
Yeah. And we're definitely gonna talk about this. I think sometimes people think in this example, people think, oh, well, I have to have millions of connections and you really don't. You really have to have the right connections with, you know, the right number and and that kind of thing.

Michelle Warner [00:08:51]:
Absolutely. Yep.

David Hall [00:08:53]:
So I was gonna ask you about social media because I did hear you talk about some myths around that. Do you wanna share any more about misunderstandings about social media?

Michelle Warner [00:09:04]:
You know, I think my biggest one is to just not default into the fact that you absolutely need it. That's that's number one is people just assume you need social media, you need to be out there. Maybe you do, but a lot of times you don't, or a lot of times you can use it in a way that makes more sense for your business. Again, I'm on social media, but you will very rarely see me post publicly. But I am in the DMs talking to people and messaging. That's how you and I connected, I think, for the first time. And that's just using it in a different way and recognizing it is a vehicle to be in touch with people. It doesn't need to be a vehicle to gather a hundred thousand followers.

David Hall [00:09:42]:
Right. Yeah. And you're not going to see me dancing on TikTok. That's for sure.

Michelle Warner [00:09:46]:
Exactly. Exactly. And so many people don't feel aligned with social media, but feel like they need to do it. And there's a good possibility that you don't.

David Hall [00:09:56]:
Yeah. But that message is out there. You need to do this. You need to do that. And it's not You

Michelle Warner [00:10:01]:
know why? Because it's it's I know we're gonna talk about this. It's kind of like extroverts. You see it. It's easy to see, and it's also easy to teach people. It's very easy to Google how should I market and get a list of the 10 things you knew to need to be active on LinkedIn. It is much harder to teach people how to build relationships or how to do some of the more nuanced activity. I can't tell you how many people I talk to who say, oh, I'm really active on LinkedIn, so my marketing is going great. And then I say, well, are you selling anything? And they say, no, but I I post as many times a week as I said I was going to.

Michelle Warner [00:10:38]:
And I have to say, well, it's not working. I mean, congratulations on getting your work done, but we need to recognize that it's not working. And I think that that weirdly gets lost in the sauce because it's so easy to set up a checklist of how many times a week do I need to post? What do I need to post? That when that checklist is complete, it's like, oh, good. My marketing is done and working. And we weirdly forget to ask, did you get any business from it? Because if you're not, you know, we need to talk about that.

David Hall [00:11:09]:
Yeah. So how do you help your clients work through the right questions to make the right sequence?

Michelle Warner [00:11:15]:
Well, there's a whole process that I use. It's rooted in five stages of small business growth, which is some research that came out of Harvard in the early eighties. I have adapted that for what super small businesses look like in the year 2025. But there's five stages that every business kinda goes through in terms of what you need to be worried about at any one time. And the second stage is a stage I call sales. And that just means you are looking to create repeatable and reliable marketing and sales. And the process of that becomes looking at where am I on the marketing continuum? You know, should I be relationship marketing or should I be traffic marketing? Is that in alignment with my product mix? Is that in alignment with the customers that I say I want? And so we have a whole system where we look at I I call them dials, like the dial of your product mix, the dial of your customer niche, the dial of your of your marketing need to be set in ways that they are in alignment with each other. You know, I think about washing machines.

Michelle Warner [00:12:12]:
It's a random analogy, but I think a lot of us can relate. If you have a delicate cycle, you're probably, you know, if you're so if that dial is turned to delicates, you're probably not turning the heat knob to, you know, high heat. You're probably gonna wash that in cold. And if you do the opposite, they're they're not in alignment. And the same thing can happen with your product mix and your customers and your marketing mix. Different customers respond to different types of marketing respond to different one different products. And so that's where we start as we kind of get those virtual, you know, dials out and say, is this in alignment or is it not? And if it's not, then we start being able to see options of how to fix that because you can look at what's not in alignment and say, okay, I wanna change this dial so that it comes into alignment with the other two.

David Hall [00:12:58]:
Yeah. And you talk about all these topics on your podcast. Tell us a little bit about your podcast.

Michelle Warner [00:13:03]:
I do. I have a podcast called Sequence Over Strategy, as you said. It's a little different than most podcasts. It's not an interview show. I think about it as a resource library for for folks who've heard me talk about some of these things and wanna go a little bit deeper. So every episode is just twenty to thirty minutes. It's monologue of me walking through different questions I get from my audience, and so we're and applying those to these frameworks we're talking about. And so my hope is if we get real world questions from folks, and then we talk about, okay, how do we actually address that? You know, I'm not getting leads or I don't wanna use social media or we have a lot of specific questions that come in, I walk you through how I would think through that question in terms of sequence over strategy.

Michelle Warner [00:13:44]:
So instead of just giving you a quick answer, we're gonna walk through my decision making process to help people both get answers and to hopefully start training brains to think in a little bit of a different direction.

David Hall [00:13:56]:
Yeah. So you use do you always have, like, real world scenarios that you're you're using?

Michelle Warner [00:14:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. So people submit questions or sometimes they take questions that I just hear over and over and over again from my audience because I do a lot of open forums where people can come in for Q and As. But, yeah, it's always rooted in a real world scenario. Usually a very, you know, one specific question that's coming in for a business, but I'm not afraid to throw out some aggregate questions that I hear all the time if I know that that will

David Hall [00:14:26]:
help. Okay. So as an introvert, is there any myths you want to bust about being a podcast host?

Michelle Warner [00:14:34]:
I think it's one of the easiest things, you know, to me, and your experience may be different, but I my experience as an introvert has been that I am very good one on one or one to many. It is that small group stuff that gets really weird for me. And so you put me in a room where I can just talk to my people and feel like I'm, you know, talking to a room and helping them. That's easy for me. It's, you know, when you start suggesting I might need to facilitate small groups or any of that, that's where my introversion starts coming out in a very big way. But that one to many has never been an issue for me, whether it's in public or, you know, from from behind a microphone. I get really energized by that. And then I go sleep for the rest of the day.

Michelle Warner [00:15:20]:
I mean, that's a whole nother, but but in that moment, I find it to be a really energizing thing for me.

David Hall [00:15:26]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And that's that's a big myth right there is people say things like, oh, introverts, they don't have anything to say. I'm like, no. We have a lot to say because we're always thinking. But when we have the one to many, like a podcast or a speech, we're we're sharing our thoughts, and it's and if we prepare correctly and also manage our energy, we can do very well in in that situation.

Michelle Warner [00:15:50]:
Absolutely. Yeah.

David Hall [00:15:52]:
And we also thrive in the one on one. Mhmm. So it's not that we don't like people because we absolutely do, but it's just like we like certain situations and and connections, and it's, you know, don't put me in the room of a hundred strangers and expect me to bounce around from person to person because that's not gonna work for me very well.

Michelle Warner [00:16:13]:
Yeah. Agree a %. And we're also usually really good listeners or processors. And I think one thing I have learned is to not feel the need to constantly have something to say. Right? If you are in in a one on one conversation, obviously, that's a little different. But if you are, like, in a small group situation, because it's gonna happen and and I'm probably not gonna be in charge of that or I'm gonna do everything I can to not be in charge of it. But if I'm interacting in in a small group situation, a lot of times there's temptation that to be a proper member of the group, you should be talking at the same pace and as everyone else. And I have found that I'm a fantastic listener.

Michelle Warner [00:16:53]:
And over the course of a conversation, a lot of things will process with me. And I might be the one to tie it all in a bow at the very end and really have something to say that that helps in a really profound way as like a one off versus just constantly adding to the to the volume of content that's happening.

David Hall [00:17:13]:
Yeah. And we need to learn the strength of that. Because you're listening, but you're listening, and likely you're putting together lots of different ideas to share what's more most important. Or you're working with your client and you're listening, and you're thinking about lots of different things, how to best help them, and we can really thrive in that. And and, you know, something that I really was a light bulb moment for me was when I heard introverts think and then speak and extroverts speak in order to think. It's like yeah. And so I used to lack confidence. I used to be shy.

David Hall [00:17:50]:
I I don't get, I'm not nervous for podcasting. I'm not nervous for public speaking. But one thing I realized is I'm never gonna speak as many words as an extrovert and that's okay. But if you're judging people on the number of words that they say, I'm not gonna be there.

Michelle Warner [00:18:07]:
Yep. We will be in the same place. We'll put it that way. Yeah.

David Hall [00:18:11]:
But but in in and you may have had this experience. A lot of introverts, maybe they're not they're they're taking it all in, and maybe it's the person running the meetings. Like, Michelle, what do you think about that? Because they know you have something valuable to say, and a lot of introverts have that experience. So just know that it's normal. You're taking it all in. You're thinking of your best response or what that what that situation needs, and it's normal, but, you know, we're not gonna speak as many words as an extrovert. That's something that I realized, you know, maybe even just recently.

Michelle Warner [00:18:43]:
Yeah. You don't have to take up the space.

David Hall [00:18:45]:
Yeah. So as an introvert, what's the strength that you feel like you have?

Michelle Warner [00:18:52]:
Oh, I think everything we were just talking about without question is understanding my place and how I can contribute the most value. And that's just something I've really embraced is knowing that, not that I'm smarter than anyone in the room or any of that. I don't mean for it to sound that way, but like, I'm probably going to have something really profound to say at the end of a conversation. And again, it's not because I'm smarter than everyone else. It's just how I've been processing things. So if I'm in a group of extroverts, they've all been thrown a bunch of stuff against a board, and I'm going to be the one who's probably going to bring it all together.

David Hall [00:19:27]:
Yeah. And that's a brilliant strength. It's a much longer story. I won't go into it all, but that's where the name quiet and strong came from. And it's not quiet, meaning shy. It's just quiet thinking. And somebody told me that basically, you know, when you have something to say, people are listening, and that's that's where the name came from. And it's not a shy thing.

David Hall [00:19:46]:
It's just I'm thinking, and it's good. Yep. You know, I'm gonna come up with something good. Just, you know, let me think here.

Michelle Warner [00:19:51]:
Yeah. And on the flip side, when if I'm put in an environment where I'm somehow forced to talk through it all, I'm gonna say a bunch of gibberish the whole time and never come to anything good. Right? And so there's a little bit of, I think, maybe education we could do or whatever for folks who maybe think that your lack of talking is a sign of disinterest or not engaging. You know, I always hated, like, participation points in classes. This is just like, I don't have something to say throughout the throughout the class. Like, ask me at the end to sum something up and because you're not gonna get anything of value If you're just asking me to throw things around in the middle, because I have no idea what I'm talking about at that point.

David Hall [00:20:29]:
Yeah, I just felt a little dread from that when you said that from my college days, the participant

Michelle Warner [00:20:35]:
100%.

David Hall [00:20:37]:
Yep. Oh, man. So let's let's talk a little bit more about, you know, what what you were speaking of on the podcast. I heard, you know, your course networking that pays.

Michelle Warner [00:20:47]:
Yeah. This is a funny one. I never expected this course to even exist. So I'll just tell you how it came to exist because I think it's interesting. I I shared that my original background was in mass marketing, and I did a lot of traffic based marketing. And this is back in, you know, 02/2005, so back in the back in the day when that was just starting. And then when I got into founding this this this startup, I was in a situation where my customers were not gonna sign up to an email list. They weren't gonna respond to mass marketing.

Michelle Warner [00:21:16]:
I was trying to sell to local government organizations and nonprofits. I was based in Denver at the time. I'm trying to sell into Philadelphia city government, Boston city government. They are not interested in hearing from someone from Denver. Right? They're all very local places and understandably so. And so I was a little lost, and I could not figure out how to make any gains because I was used to building an email list and mass marketing. Luckily, it occurred to me that I had very randomly taken two quarters of networking science classes when I got, when I was in business school. I'm still not sure how that all came together, but I'm so glad it did.

Michelle Warner [00:21:53]:
And I learned that there's actually a science to how our networks work. And I got to reflecting on that, and I developed a system for myself. Because as an introvert, I think that's one of the best things we can do is give ourselves assignments rather than just say, go meet people. And I used all the networking science that I had learned to kind of build a methodical system of how I could meet these people and then how they could become my customers. Fast forward, you know, five, ten years, I had my own business. I was trying to help my clients turn their businesses around. Over and over and over again, I saw that the biggest thing in their way was they didn't have a good network. And so I jotted down my system into a Google document, started sharing it with my one on one clients.

Michelle Warner [00:22:38]:
Some friends who had large programs got wind of it and said, can you come teach my people this? This looks really valuable. So I would go and guest teach. And then eventually, a friend who has a very large program said, you know what, if you don't get this into a course that my people can buy, I'm gonna steal all your material and do it myself. So she was kidding, of course, but not really. And so I just sat down and created the course out of it. And it's been a real joy because it is my belief that the same way we say you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. I can tell you and I I keep quoting different time frames, but I've been doing this work for twenty, twenty five years in some form or another, and I've seen over and over and over again that a small business is the average of its network. And so it is not acceptable to me if an introvert becomes a small business owner and then feels like they can't build a network because it's too important.

Michelle Warner [00:23:29]:
And so it's this course is important to me because it it makes it doable for introverts, and we can talk about why. But also the most surprising thing I found was that it also makes it more effective for extroverts. And it's interesting when you look at how both groups screw up networking, because I think that also helps introverts understand that extroverts aren't like some magical species that just gets this right out of the gate. They screw up a lot of things too. And having a system that helps both has been really rewarding and also really eye opening.

David Hall [00:24:03]:
Yeah. And that's that's funny that you say that because we all need to continuously improve and get better. Yeah. But the way is gonna be different. So it you know, the extroverts aren't all perfect either, but just the way they network and the way an introvert would network are gonna look different, and you need to learn what works best for you. But it's not that extroverts necessarily have it all down.

Michelle Warner [00:24:25]:
No. They are wasting so much time, you know, and it's really the exact same problem. It just looks differently. Introverts, if you don't have a system, just don't do it. And again, I've been there. Like, I get it. They just avoid it. Scared of it.

Michelle Warner [00:24:37]:
Extroverts just go to town and talk to anyone or everyone for forty to eighty hours a week, have no clue who they're talking about, to what end, or anything. And so the end result for both is nothing. Because extroverts are wasting all of their time talking to people who make no sense to talk to, but they just popped up. So sure, let's grab coffee. And introverts are doing nothing. And the sum summation of both of those things is is nothing on both ends. And but I think introverts allow themselves to feel bad because they see extroverts doing all this activity. It's kinda like what we're talking about posting on LinkedIn all day.

Michelle Warner [00:25:13]:
They see all this activity and assume that it is ending in a lot of business or whatever. I can tell you it's not. And so let's just take that shame right off of it. And just assume both groups are doing a terrible job of networking because networking is just weird.

David Hall [00:25:28]:
Yeah. I'm I'm curious. You said you, you actually took a couple of networking science classes. Was there anything about introversion in that or just, it helps you understand and then you, you built the introversion part.

Michelle Warner [00:25:41]:
Yeah, there wasn't a lot of introversion in it, but it did, it helped. This is weird because I'm generally not a big science person, but understanding the science helped me build a system. And when I build a system, it is easier to follow. I understand what the rules are. I understand why I'm doing things. And more importantly, I have a reason for why I'm reaching out to people. And that makes it doable made it doable for me, and I will say makes it doable for my students who are in this course. Because a lot of the problem with introversion is when you're just dropped into a room, or you're just dropped onto the Internet and told meet people.

Michelle Warner [00:26:18]:
It's a sequence over strategy problem. There's 10 steps you should take before you get dropped into that space. And when we're just dropped in that space without any of that preparation, we panic, understandably. Because I'm not getting into a small room and figuring out how to make small talk with people. But if I have an assignment and if I know when I'm there, honestly, I'm still probably gonna skip the event because there are better ways to do it. But if I have a purpose for reaching out to someone, I can reach out to them. It's when I'm just told to vaguely go meet people that it gets real ugly.

David Hall [00:26:55]:
Yeah. And that's the thing, like, whatever form of networking, it's like, what's the purpose here? What's my goal? And is it it's okay if my goal is different from that person's goal. You know, what's my goal? And that's that's been really key for me too.

Michelle Warner [00:27:09]:
Yeah. And so we we teach that, you know, not only what is the goal, and we get very specific on that. It's not just a vague go make money or go find leads because that's not specific enough for an introvert. But then we talk about like the very specific, like what are different strategies to get introduced to people that aren't weird and that you can figure out on your own. And again, give you an excuse to reach out to someone that's not just, Hi, I'm Michelle. How are you today? Right? Like, let's put reasoning behind all the outreach that we do and allow you to make choices to reach out in ways that don't make you feel like you're getting in someone's way.

David Hall [00:27:47]:
Yeah. So we've been talking about this, but just maybe summarize, like, why why do we need to have a great network? And it might not be really big, but what's the purpose of it? And how do we go about building that network?

Michelle Warner [00:28:01]:
You know, I just think that we're social beings. And so if you're out there trying to build a business or you're trying to accomplish anything else, everything is gonna be easier if there are a couple of people who have your back. And I don't just mean in a support way to keep cheering you on, although that's important. But it is going to be easier if you can collaborate on different things and bring together two different audiences. It is going to be easier if you are building relationships with people who work with your folks either right before or right after you or even at the same time. You know, the wedding industry is a perfect example of this. Every wedding caterer should know every wedding DJ in the area, should know every, you know, photographer in the area, every event planner. Your lives just get easier.

Michelle Warner [00:28:46]:
You, because you can trade information, you can all work with the same clients, and it just makes life easier whether you are selling one to one or even if you're selling mass market products. You know, you can go I call it borrowing an audience. If you're selling a mass market product and you can build a relationship with somebody who has an audience of people who might want that product, well, if you have a relationship, you can figure out how to collaborate in some way. And so you're not always starting from scratch having to find all of your leads on your own. We're a collaborative world. And so having thinking about networking as collaboration with other people who are trying to reach your same clients rather than networking in order to meet your clients is a real game changer. Right? We're looking to build long term relationships with people who are trying to reach the same people you are in a non competitive way. We're not trying to go meet our, you know, future clients all the time.

Michelle Warner [00:29:41]:
That's exhausting. That's like cold calling.

David Hall [00:29:44]:
Yeah. And like we've been talking about, introverts are very good at building relationships one on one. But just sometimes the message is that that's not the right way. We need to do more. And what other obstacles are introverts facing when it comes to building a network?

Michelle Warner [00:30:01]:
You know, a lot of it comes down to having confidence and how am I gonna reach out and what am I gonna do. And so when we're looking at the process, the first step we do is set a networking goal, just figure out what you're trying to do. Second step is to build what I call ideal connection avatar profiles. So a lot of us have talked about our client persona or our client avatar. You also have what I call ideal connection avatars. And this keys into what we were just talking about in terms of who are those groups or profiles of people that already have access to your clients. And let's profile that out because that's going to tell you who you should be building relationships with. So an example, a lot of times, if you're a service provider, it is looking at who's working with your clients right before or right after you.

Michelle Warner [00:30:46]:
Those are great clues. I tell the story of, I live in a pretty small town on Lake Michigan, and we had a really fun collaboration and you wouldn't immediately see how they share clients, but they do. We have an ax throwing bar. We live in the Midwest like we do ax throwing here. We pretend like we're from Canada sometimes. We had a new yoga studio in town open. So those two owners got together and on a Friday night, everyone went and threw axes for an hour to get out the aggression of the week and then walked over to the yoga studio a few doors down and had this long, you know, just kinda meditation so that they could enter the weekend in a chilled way. And when you think about it, those are the same clientele.

Michelle Warner [00:31:26]:
People who go out to an Axe bar are also probably at yoga on Sunday mornings in a weird way. And so thinking through who are these people who are already on my clients and doing some of these collaborations is really helpful. So when you know that ideal connection avatar, then you can start saying, okay, how should I reach out to them in a way that respects that we have something in common? And that outreach gets a lot easier if you were the Axe Bar owner who's like, cool. The yoga studio opened. Now I have a reason to go say, hey. We share the same clients. What could we cook up? Wouldn't that be fun? And that is such an easy conversation because it's a win win conversation. It's not these awkward conversations we have when we haven't thought through that profile where you're just talking to anyone and everyone and trying to kinda hope that you figure out some sort of mutual benefit.

Michelle Warner [00:32:13]:
And at the end, you just say, oh, how can I help you? And the other person says, how can I help you? And nobody has a really good idea, and it goes nowhere. If you can think through who these profiles are of people who share your clients, that connection becomes so much easier because there's purpose behind it.

David Hall [00:32:29]:
Yeah, absolutely. So you're making these connections. As an introvert. How do you build and continue to foster relationships? What's your tips on that?

Michelle Warner [00:32:41]:
Yeah, well, number one, we talk about what is the most effective way to actually build the initial connection. And I will tell you what it is in ROI order in terms of, like, what's the most successful. Most successful way is if you have a mutual connection who can introduce you. It's not always available, but if it is, that's the one you should use. The second is if you can create what I call a project of some sort. What do I mean by that? I mean, having an excuse to reach out to people because you're writing a white paper or because maybe you have a podcast and you can invite them to be a guest. Something that is a value to the person you're reaching out to so that you're offering something before you're asking something of them. And this is how I ultimately solved my problem with my startup.

Michelle Warner [00:33:25]:
I was in a situation where we had some media buzz, but I had no sales. So I could weirdly book any keynote that existed in my industry. I was in a very fortunate position there, and I acknowledge not everyone is. But I could not get anybody to have a sales conversation with me. So what I started doing was turning down the keynotes and asking for a panel instead. And then all those people who I needed to meet to get, you know, in the in the doors of my future clients, I asked them to come to these events. A lot of them, again, were nonprofits. They wanna tell their story.

Michelle Warner [00:33:59]:
They wanna be featured. They feel like no one ever sees them. I was able to create a project where I had these panel discussions, and I invited them. And I said, please, come tell your story. I'm gonna facilitate a panel. And so I built a relationship that way before ever trying to sell anybody anything or asking for an introduction. And that's an extreme example, but we can all do that in different forms of our business. If you have a podcast, please, 50% of your guests should be used as a way to meet people who might be collaborators down the line.

Michelle Warner [00:34:31]:
If you're a b to b consultant, you can write white papers. We do this a lot. That gives you an excuse to reach out to the people that you need to meet. There are ways to do that when you think about that project. And then the third way is is something I call a thank you, where you're just reaching out to people and sincerely saying, hey, because I heard you say this publicly, so this is for people with public platforms, or even people who just post on social, because you said this the other week, you really got me thinking in this way, and thank you for that. And it's just a little more genuine than, hi, I'm Michelle. How are you? You know, can we have a virtual coffee? So those are the ways that, number one, we kind of give you an assignment to meet people and couch it under something of value. And then once you have met them and once you've built that connection, we have some other tricks where, you know, we have catch up days and thank you days and and different types of days where you can think through how to how to keep those connections alive.

David Hall [00:35:25]:
Yeah. I heard somebody say once that they built relationships by rolling up their sleeves with somebody else. And so I just really relate to what you're saying. Like when you're working on something together, that's where you really get to know each other, especially as introverts, like, I'm not going to make great connections, just making small talk here and there. I've learned to get better at it. I usually don't love it. I know it's a way to get to the deeper conversations I wanna have, but working alongside someone in some way is a great way to go. And I mean, that's why I love my podcast.

David Hall [00:36:00]:
This is a form of networking for me. I meet so many great people like yourself. It's amazing.

Michelle Warner [00:36:05]:
Exactly. And that's such a great starting point and such a strong starting point, because also introverts are great when you can spend time with people. And so us having a conversation that the meaty conversation here that tie is going to be is is gonna be a little bit little bit harder. And then, you know, related to that, something that introverts struggle with is making an ask. And so I do a lot of encouraging of learning about small, tiny asks because that is how relationships are built. Again, humans are wired for connection and for helping each other. And so I think introverts are more prone to being scared and to waiting because they have this, like, big ask of what they eventually wanna do with this person hanging over them. And so it becomes how much small talk, how much follow-up do I need to do before I can ask the big thing? And I say start asking from day one, but just tiny stuff.

Michelle Warner [00:36:58]:
Right? Because that builds relationships. So you can just reach out and say, hey. I was thinking of option a or option b. Is there one that's better? Or, hey. I'm gonna do this. What am I missing? Is there a big red flag here? So once you've made a connection with someone, you can ask them tiny little favors, and that actually really, really builds the connection. And also people get really weird when you don't ask for anything. So if you just keep trying to follow-up with people, people get uncomfortable with that.

Michelle Warner [00:37:27]:
And and I use myself as an excuse because I'm not great at this. And I have these great neighbors next door, and they ask me for favors all the time, and I don't think twice about it, and I do it. They work long hours. I work from home. I can go grab a package. Like, I just don't think anything of it. But I don't ask for help from them very often. I was just I grew up independent, whatever.

Michelle Warner [00:37:46]:
I forget. And my neighbor said to me once, she said, I'm so scared to ask you for anything because I feel bad because you never ask for the favor in return. And I felt awful. And I realized, like, when you don't ask people for things, it actually hurts the relationship. So it's thinking through what are those little things that you can ask for and knowing that people aren't judging you for it, but it's actually a relationship builder.

David Hall [00:38:10]:
Yeah. And sometimes maybe you have a particular expertise. And when people aren't asking you about it, you know, it can feel like, hey, why why didn't you ask me about that? You know, I could have helped you with that.

Michelle Warner [00:38:23]:
Exactly. And I think we think in such extremes of that ask, we think it either has to be, can I borrow your brain for an hour? Or, hey, you know, I have this whole collaboration, and I just met you, but let's talk about partnering on something. And those can feel like too much, but then we default to doing nothing. And it's like there are little tiny asks, you know, that take people less than thirty seconds that can build relationships along the way.

David Hall [00:38:46]:
Yeah. Any other tips just on the long term of building relationships, especially as an introvert?

Michelle Warner [00:38:52]:
You know what my other one is? I started calling it this. I don't know why, but stop, drop, and thank you. And that's just a rule I have for myself and encourage everyone who comes around me to do. And that is whenever you think of someone, thank them for that moment. So I have this ridiculous dog who needs like three hours of walks a day. So as I'm walking this dog, I will remember a project I did with somebody, or I'll have a flashback to a business dinner we had, or a conversation we had, or I will think through something, you know, a question will pop into mind for someone. And I don't allow those things to be fleeting. I make a little note of it.

Michelle Warner [00:39:31]:
Now it's become very natural to me. I don't even have to make a note of it. I come back to my desk and I immediately send an email or a text that is nothing more than, hey, I was walking Watson. I remembered that time we talked about this and it just made me laugh. Like, thanks for being here. And those go so far because nobody does that. And so as introverts, that's one of our powers. We do remember interactions with people.

Michelle Warner [00:39:58]:
They matter to us. And so if we can just remember to tell people that, it really, really solidifies relationships because it goes back to what we're saying. Like, we're always observing and listening, and extroverts don't remember any of those details. But we remember things that happened two years ago. And we can come back and say, hey, this morning I was working on a project and it reminded me of a conversation I had two years ago. I am so grateful for that thing you told me because I'm realizing it stuck with me. And that goes so far. So I've turned that into stop, drop, and thank you.

Michelle Warner [00:40:30]:
If somebody crosses your mind for having had an experience that helped you, tell them it takes less than thirty seconds. Shoot off a text, shoot off an email, however you communicate with them.

David Hall [00:40:39]:
Yeah. I love that. Stop, drop, and thank you. And, you know, you were kinda saying this before. Also, be specific, you know, say something that's meaningful to them. It's not just, you know, hey, you did great on this thing. Say something that you really got from that interaction.

Michelle Warner [00:40:55]:
Absolutely. I make that comparison. We see so many people trying to connect by posting on social media, like in response to a post. They'll say, oh, thanks. I needed to hear this today. Nobody is gonna remember that. Yeah. What did you need

David Hall [00:41:07]:
to hear? What did you need to hear today?

Michelle Warner [00:41:09]:
Yeah. What did you need to hear and what did you take out of it? That does not take any extra time to say, but the person will remember it.

David Hall [00:41:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because

Michelle Warner [00:41:17]:
because nobody else it's it's kind of like sticking out like a sore thumb, but in a good way, because nobody takes the effort. And it extrovert sure aren't taking the effort. So if we're talking about introvert superpowers, you have that thirty extra seconds to give a specific answer, and that one is gonna stick.

David Hall [00:41:35]:
Yeah. Very good. Michelle, this time has gone by fast.

Michelle Warner [00:41:39]:
Oh, it has.

David Hall [00:41:40]:
And it's been a great conversation. Is there anything else that you wanna add today?

Michelle Warner [00:41:46]:
I don't think so. Other than to pump everyone up and let like, this is possible. You can build a network if it feels difficult. I get it. It's understandable. I mean, I am the first one to hide in the bathroom if you plop me into an event. But it's doable, and know that it's doable. If you get a little bit of a process, answer some of these questions we've talked about today, it is possible.

David Hall [00:42:07]:
Yeah. And I'll just add, like we've been talking about, it's not that you can't do it, that you don't wanna do it, but often using your introverted strengths, honoring your introverted needs, that's where success is gonna be. And that path may look different from somebody else in your life, you know, honoring yourself, using your strengths, that's where you're gonna be successful.

Michelle Warner [00:42:27]:
%. Cannot agree more.

David Hall [00:42:29]:
Alright. And of course, where can people find out more about the great work that you do?

Michelle Warner [00:42:34]:
Yeah. You can visit my website at the michellewarner.com. Somebody else has michellewarner.com buried, so I had to throw the the in front of it.

David Hall [00:42:42]:
Okay.

Michelle Warner [00:42:43]:
And you can always find me on LinkedIn and the the Sequence Over Strategy podcast if you wanna check that out. There are some different episodes on certainly on networking and a lot of other topics.

David Hall [00:42:54]:
Well, thanks again.

Michelle Warner [00:42:55]:
Yeah. Thanks for having me. This was a fun conversation.

David Hall [00:42:58]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more.

David Hall [00:43:35]:
Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert, and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs, and be strong.