The Quiet and Strong Podcast, Especially for Introverts
The Quiet and Strong Podcast, Especially for Introverts
Ep 214 - Boosting Career Success, Especially for Introverts with Guest Lissa Appiah
Are you ready to unlock the power of your introversion and boost your career success? In this episode of The Quiet and Strong Podcast, host David Hall welcomes certified career strategist and introvert advocate Lissa Appiah. Together, they explore overcoming introverted challenges and maximizing your inherent strengths to thrive in your professional journey.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into embracing self-awareness, building a personal brand, and discovering how introverts can effectively stand out in the workplace. Key takeaways include strategies for speaking up in meetings, initiating meaningful conversations, and leveraging your unique strengths for leadership success.
Tune in to learn how to articulate your strengths, become more visible in your career, and balance your need for solitude with professional demands. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand and harness their introverted gifts for career advancement.
Listen in, embrace your introversion, and be strong.
Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/214
###
Lissa Appiah is a Certified Career Strategist, Certified Organizational Coach, Personal Branding Consultant, and the Founder of WeApply, with over a decade of experience in public policy, program operations, and human resources. She helps quiet leaders and their teams uncover their unique strengths and win at work while staying true to themselves.
Corporate leaders work with Lissa to deliver career and leadership workshops and training that boost engagement and retain talent. Career changers and promotion seekers choose Lissa to find their voice and stand out for opportunities. She has helped thousands secure roles with Fortune 500 companies and various government levels in Canada and the U.S.
Connect with Lissa:
Website: WeApply.ca
Take Lissa's Introverts at Work Quiz
- - -
Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:
David Hall
Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster
quietandstrong.com
Gobio.link/quietandstrong
david [at] quietandstrong.com
Take the FREE Personality Assessment:
Typefinder Personality Assessment
Follow David on your favorite social platform:
Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | Youtube
Get David's book:
Minding Your Time: Time Management, Productivity, and Success, Especially for Introverts
You may also like:
Quiet & Strong Merchandise
Lissa Appiah [00:00:00]:
But once you take the time to actually look back at your stories, at your accomplishments, we recognize that there are different elements or different things that we do that come naturally to us often that we can then brand, to help support us in our career advancement. So that's typically what I do. I start off by helping people really understand their backgrounds. How did they get to where they are? What strengths did they use? And sometimes people know what they're good at, but they don't have the words to be able to articulate it.
David Hall [00:00:43]:
Hello, and welcome to episode two fourteen of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and also help others find the show.
David Hall [00:01:12]:
Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Lisa Appiah is a certified career strategist, certified organizational coach, personal branding consultant, and the founder of WeApply. With over a decade of experience in public policy, program operations, and human resources. She helps quiet leaders and their teams uncover their unique strengths and win at work while staying true to themselves. Corporate leaders work with Lisa to deliver career and leadership workshops and training that boost engagement and retain talent. Career changers and promotion seekers choose Lisa define their voice, and stand out for opportunities. She's helped thousands secure roles with Fortune 500 companies and various government levels in Canada and The US. Welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Lisa.
David Hall [00:02:09]:
Lisa, it's so good to have you on today.
Lissa Appiah [00:02:11]:
Thank you. It's my pleasure.
David Hall [00:02:14]:
We're gonna talk about the great work you do, especially, with introverts. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey to the work that you're doing now.
Lissa Appiah [00:02:23]:
So I am an introvert. It took me a while to discover that I am one. But it was through work that I realized that, okay, there's something going on here. I'm not like everyone else. And initially, yes, I did think there was something wrong with me. But, really, I was in a place where I was starting off my career. I had been academically as much as I like being on my own. It wasn't that much of an issue because at the end of the day, it's based on your grades.
Lissa Appiah [00:02:56]:
It's not always based on how involved you are with people. I didn't do any sports or extracurricular stuff. I just did the academics. That's what I excelled in, and that's what was important to me. So once I started my professional career, I realized in the first year or two that the people that were getting ahead were not necessarily the ones who were doing the great work, which was what I was used to in school. You do good work, you get rewarded for it and you move to the next level. But now I was realizing, okay, it's also about being able to build relationships. It's also about being able to speak up for yourself in meetings.
Lissa Appiah [00:03:38]:
And that whole element of self advocacy was not something that I was used to, partly just because of my upbringing and then also just my personality as an introvert. So that's where the journey began. And so I eventually was able to create a system that worked for me. I landed five promotions in less than eight years, moving from a junior analyst to becoming part of the management team. And then I also, in the background, had always had a love for career development. And at some point I realized that these two things go very closely together. So I started my business, which is we apply, and we help introverts to be able to land and succeed in their first leadership role.
David Hall [00:04:29]:
Amazing. Amazing. So so when you were a young professional, what were the struggles that you were having?
Lissa Appiah [00:04:36]:
Yeah. I can you know, there's, like, a image that's clear in my mind, you know, going back in time. But the moment that really caught my attention, there was a guy. We we were both junior analysts. And, there was a trip coming up to be able to go to I think it was to New York to represent the team. We what we used to do was negotiating agreements on behalf of the government. And so, usually, junior analysts are not part of those negotiations. But then the opportunity came up that one person could go in addition to the management team, and he got selected over me, although I was part of the group that was working on The US file.
Lissa Appiah [00:05:22]:
So that already caught my attention that, why did he get selected if I'm doing the work? So that was the one moment that really caught my attention. And then over time, I was seeing that, okay, he got a bump up. So he was he got a promotion after that trip. And, eventually, his career just started moving so quickly. And in me just analyzing and and thinking about it, all that he was doing that was different than what I was doing is that he was great at being everybody's friend. Like, he was just that guy. Right? So, that's when I realized, okay, I need to adjust my strategy to be able to also succeed in my career.
David Hall [00:06:06]:
So you would say your work was pretty comparable?
Lissa Appiah [00:06:09]:
Because we were at the same level, we were both junior analysts basically doing the same work. But then when the opportunity came that was related to my work, I wasn't the one who was called to be at the forefront to attend this this, negotiation. He got called on and he wasn't working on the file at all. So that was a big yeah. That was a moment for me where I realized, okay. There's something going on here.
David Hall [00:06:35]:
And when did you put the name to that you were an introvert, and how did you embrace it?
Lissa Appiah [00:06:43]:
Yeah. I would say because that that was a time when I started doing a lot more research, becoming more self aware and really understanding what are the strengths that I bring to the work place. I may be different, but I'm sure there is value that I can bring. So I would say it was around the same time that I was now looking at, you know, different assessments, Myers Briggs, and doing those various assessments and understanding that,
David Hall [00:07:09]:
okay, there is actually a
Lissa Appiah [00:07:09]:
word for this. It's actually a word for this. It's being an introvert. Now, you know, getting to know what that means and trying to understand how could I leverage this to still succeed in my career.
David Hall [00:07:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. The Myers Briggs was a big turning point for me too. I got Oh, yeah? I I remember I got certified to give it, and the facilitator in the session said she said a lot of things that were wonderful, but she said introverts think and then speak, and extroverts speak in order to think. And that was one of my light bulb moments. I'm like, oh, yeah. I am thinking first and then speaking, and extroverts are sharing a lot more naturally, and neither is good or bad. It just is, and and that was a big turning point.
David Hall [00:07:54]:
The Myers Briggs has definitely been helpful for me as well.
Lissa Appiah [00:07:57]:
Oh, that's neat.
David Hall [00:07:58]:
So what other strengths have you learned about that you have as an introvert?
Lissa Appiah [00:08:03]:
As I began to move into leadership, I think the big thing that I recognized as a strength is because I'm very observant and I do take the time to actually know people one on one. I've been able to better understand the strength that other people have to build strong teams. And, I think that's a a huge strength, especially as a leader to be able to recognize what value does everyone bring to the team and being able to support them for their own growth. But you actually have to be intentional about that. Sometimes what we see with a lot of leaders is just like results. Let's get this done. Let's get that done. But are you actually taking the time to get to know the people you're working with to support them so that they're operating in their own zone of genius so that it can eventually lead to the result that the organization is looking for.
Lissa Appiah [00:08:56]:
So that's definitely a huge strength that I've recognized in myself, especially as I became a leader.
David Hall [00:09:04]:
Yeah. I like that zone of genius because that's that's what it's all about because, you know, we are we each have our unique strengths whether we're an introvert or extrovert. And, of course, you know, not all introverts are the same. I I think you and I probably have a lot in common, but as we get to know each other more, then, you know, there's gonna be strengths that you have that I don't have and vice versa. But it's so important as a leader to get to know your team's strengths, and it does take some time. But, you know, what does this person bring? You also mentioned, you know, working one on one, and often that's a gift that we have as introverts. Because we bust on this show, people say, oh, introverts don't like people. No.
David Hall [00:09:45]:
No. It's just we have different skills and strengths, and we thrive often in the one on one or the small group. And I
Lissa Appiah [00:09:53]:
completely agree. And even as a business model, initially, I had started with group coaching and that was the focus. Obviously, you know, that's what you hear. People say online, when you wanna scale your coaching business, you need a group coaching program, but then I'm serving introvert. So, you know, I realized it is the one on one. The same way we thrive one on one, in our careers, in our relationships. It's the same thing. So that's the model that I I have seen has worked, especially when I'm working with introverts as well.
Lissa Appiah [00:10:25]:
So I am an advocate for one on one for sure.
David Hall [00:10:29]:
You know, is there any other myths that you wanna bust today about introverts?
Lissa Appiah [00:10:32]:
A big one that you hear all the time is that introverts are shy. You know, at some point in my in my life, yes, I was a shy person. But eventually, I knew that I had I was no longer shy. I was confident, but I was just introverted. And even myself making that distinction was something that took time to understand. You know, extroverts can be shy depending on the social setting, what's happening. It's not a a personality. It could be more situational depending on what is going on.
Lissa Appiah [00:11:07]:
So I think that's a big myth, that people have that introverts are shy. I've read articles that just use the words interchangeably sometimes. And and, you know, there is a a huge misconception around that. There's the one that you mentioned earlier about introverts not like people. Like, introverts typically we gain our energies by being alone, and that's typically how we reenergize ourselves. And that's why for me, you know, strategies like, you know, if I know I'm gonna have a meeting, I'm going to be talking a lot or something. Even preparing for this podcast, I take, like, ten, fifteen minutes before just to get myself grounded. Like, okay.
Lissa Appiah [00:11:49]:
This is what we're going to do. And then after I'm gonna do the same thing as well. And that's how I get my energy. But an extrovert on the other hand, they get their energy through socializing, through social interactions, through people. So that's just the distinction. It's not about liking people. It's more about how we interact with people, how we manage our energy. So, yeah, that's that's some of them, but there are so many more.
David Hall [00:12:15]:
And, I also was shy when I was younger. And for me and there could be lots of causes of shyness, you know, and as you mentioned, it can be an extrovert, introvert, you know, lack of confidence, not not able to do that thing that you wanna do. But for me, it was learning things like, oh, yeah. I'm a deep thinker. I I do think and then speak. Because just that one thing, if you don't understand that and someone's talking, talking, talking, and they're saying that dreaded, why are you so quiet? You can you can definitely feel shy and lack confidence if you feel run over like that. This is a gift of mine. I'm gonna think I'm gonna think of something great, but I'm not gonna say as many words, and that's okay.
David Hall [00:12:57]:
You know?
Lissa Appiah [00:12:58]:
I love that you called it a gift because that's really what it is. That's really what it is. And once you have that self awareness of who you are, then you can own that gift and that's the most important thing.
David Hall [00:13:09]:
So let's talk about self awareness. How do you bring help other people in the work that you're doing become self aware?
Lissa Appiah [00:13:17]:
Yeah. The big thing that I do, I do use assessments like we talked about, some assessments earlier. But really the most important thing is I help people understand their story and understand their path. And really through our stories, that's where we're able to understand what are the strengths that we have. Because oftentimes, there are certain things that you do at work that may come very naturally to you that you don't even think that this is a strength that I can leverage to succeed or excel in my career. But once you take the time to actually look back at your stories, at your accomplishments, We recognize that there are different elements or different things that we do that come naturally to us often that we can then brand, to help support us in our career advancement. So that's typically what I do. I start off by helping people really understand their backgrounds.
Lissa Appiah [00:14:11]:
How did they get to where they are? What strengths did they use? And sometimes people know what they're good at, but they don't have the words to be able to articulate it. So that's another part of what we do, helping them articulate it and in a in a corporate way because we know there's the corporate jargon that goes with it. Right? So helping people really express what they already have in to match the language of the industry or the field that they're in. And then now how do you position that as a strength that other people will recognize? And it all starts with you acknowledging it. And you know how you were talking about the gift. It's all about you recognizing and acknowledging the gift that you have, and then eventually other people will as well. But it all starts with you. So that's the big part of of what I do.
Lissa Appiah [00:15:01]:
And then, obviously, you know, once we we have articulated what it is, some people may be job searching, so we'll work on the resume, the LinkedIn profile, and all that. And others, it's to excel in their leadership. So how do we apply this to your current workplace so that you can improve your communications with your colleagues? Or how do we apply it to improve your presentation skills as a leader or your speaking skills as a leader? So that's where we support people.
David Hall [00:15:31]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And a lot of that is helping people articulate, hey, you know what? I need this, and it's okay. Like, I I you know, guess what? I also gave myself time before and after this podcast
Lissa Appiah [00:15:46]:
Oh, nice.
David Hall [00:15:47]:
For your same reasons. You know? I wanted to get in the right head space, and also, you know, I I'm enjoying this conversation. I'm not feeling drained, but I might need a break after, you know, as much as I enjoy the conversations. And then so being able to articulate that to people because other people don't need as much recharge time as we do. And it's not just recharge, it's like I need time alone for a lot of things. I need time alone to get certain work type of things done, you know, or to think or to plan. And just being able to share that with people, like, hey, you know what? I need this time, and and it's okay. And and, you know, whereas your extroverted friend or colleague may not need that same time, but you need to be able to share, hey.
David Hall [00:16:34]:
You know what? Give me a moment, and then you use your great skills and come up with something brilliant. But you might need a a moment to think about it. Or sometimes, you might say, oh, I'll call you tomorrow. You know?
Lissa Appiah [00:16:45]:
Yeah. Exactly.
David Hall [00:16:46]:
You know?
Lissa Appiah [00:16:47]:
Yeah. That's awesome.
David Hall [00:16:49]:
So I know, you talk a lot about and you, you know, you shared your struggle in the beginning. You talk a lot about helping introverts become visible. You know, it's not just about the work. You say, you know, your work doesn't speak for itself. You you have to do some other things. Tell us more about how the introvert doing good work, but how they can become more visible and have their voice heard.
Lissa Appiah [00:17:12]:
Sure. I'll I'll respond that by giving an example of something that I did in my career in the early days that really helped me. So in that same role that I I was talking about where I discovered that there was this issue, basically, what I started doing is just paying attention to what needs the organization had. And over time, I would hear a lot of the senior analysts talking about, corporate reporting that it was something they found challenging, something they didn't like doing. And it wasn't directly in line with what I had to do, but I decided that I wanted to position myself as the solution to that problem that they had. So I started to learn all that I can learn about corporate reporting. I figured out how it's structured within our organization, the reporting cycle, and and all that. And when opportunities came up to go to meetings with senior management or an analyst would say, you know, I'm drowning.
Lissa Appiah [00:18:11]:
I can't go to this reporting meeting. I would put my hand up and just say, yeah. I can go for you. You know? So, eventually, I started to build a brand around corporate reporting. And, eventually, people started to see me as the expert in corporate reporting. So when there was anything related to that, go ask Lisa. Oh, Lisa knows. She can help you.
Lissa Appiah [00:18:33]:
And that started to become my brand. In one of our meetings that we had with an an executive was there, he mentioned to me that, hey. I'm building a new team. We're focusing on corporate reporting. There's the application is going out soon. I think you should apply. And I did apply, and that's how I landed my one of the first promotions out of the five. So for me, it was it wasn't necessarily about having to be the person that is the most vocal in meetings or always putting my hand up or look, you know, look at me.
Lissa Appiah [00:19:07]:
I'm here. It has something to say, but it was about being strategic, recognizing what needs the organization has and then being a solution to that need in a way that felt natural and comfortable to me. And that's basically what I teach my clients as well, you know. Look out for the need and see how you can position yourself as that solution while staying true to yourself.
David Hall [00:19:32]:
Yeah. You said a couple of really important things there. It's like, you know, become the expert, you know, and and we should be doing that anyway.
Lissa Appiah [00:19:39]:
Yeah.
David Hall [00:19:39]:
But also you know, be willing, look for opportunities because, you know, maybe you don't feel like giving a presentation and an opportunity arises and, you know, it could go to a couple different people. Make sure it's you, you know? Volunteer, put yourself out there that you're you like you said, you know, go to that meeting that you may not have to go to or give that presentation that you may not have to do, but those kinds of things will really help. And, yeah, we're we're never going to, talk all the time, and that's that's good. But, you know, make sure that you are speaking up. And that's another thing I've really learned, so let's talk about that a little bit, is I've learned that in these situations, I have to be prepared. You know? Mhmm. So like you said, you volunteered to go to this meeting. It's really important that you're prepared for the meeting because, you know, thinking ahead of time, like, hey.
David Hall [00:20:38]:
What's gonna be talked about? Do I need to research anything? Are there points I wanna make? And I would actually write those down. Or are there questions that I have that are relevant? You know? So how do introverts prepare for meetings and presentations?
Lissa Appiah [00:20:51]:
That's a great one. So I'm the same as you as well in terms of, taking notes and and and preparing ahead of time, and I find that most introverts are like that as well. So if you're going to a meeting, make sure there is a meeting agenda. If there isn't one, you can request that find out from the meeting organizer, is there a meeting agenda? So you can know what is going to be discussed, and that will help you prepare for the meeting. So that's a big thing that helps in terms of preparation. Definitely, how I was talking about earlier having that buffer time before and after helps. Especially during the pandemic, one of the things that I would hear from a lot of my clients is that, like, meetings are literally back to back because everybody was just getting used to the fact that we're online. And it's like, oh, but you're online.
Lissa Appiah [00:21:40]:
You're home. Why can't you do a meeting, you know, back to but that also is draining. Right? So, if you need to set the time in your calendar, just block off the time so that you know that, okay, this is the time that I need to recharge in between meetings before you go to the next one. Something that also helps is even when you're in the meeting, trying to be strategic, looking for opportunities to speak. You know? Is there a natural pause in the conversation that gives you the opportunity to actually say something? Or even if you're someone who you're just getting started and you feel like, okay, I don't wanna I just wanna say what I have to say. So you don't spend the whole time ruminating and then, you know, you don't end up saying anything at all. Then I would say, go at it the first point that you get the first opportunity you get, even if you wanna be the first to speak, get your thoughts out there. So you don't spend the whole meeting wondering, okay, will I get a chance? Oh, no.
Lissa Appiah [00:22:39]:
Someone said what I said. Now I have to go back to my notes and we do that internal dialogue sometimes. And so to avoid that, if you need to speak first, just go ahead. Other things that can help with meetings is, asking questions. Sometimes you don't have to be the person to have all the solutions. Maybe you're the person who wants to ask a question that can help guide the conversation. Or even after maybe it's the end of the meeting, you realize you haven't said anything. Maybe you can be the person to summarize and and give okay.
Lissa Appiah [00:23:10]:
So what are the action items from our conversation? Which is something that we lack in a lot of corporate meetings. Like, okay. What was the point? What was the point of this meeting? What are we taking away? So you can be that person to help put things together and let everybody know, okay. This is what we're taking away from the conversation. So there are lots of opportunities for you to still get your voice heard in a meeting, but it's all about being intentional about it and just finding those opportunities, to to speak up. And it doesn't have to be speaking about you all the time. And that's the thing that sometimes a lot of people are like, oh, I feel like I'm bragging. Why do I have to talk about my accomplishments? It's not that you're, you're constantly going to a work meeting and speaking about how you did this and how you did that.
Lissa Appiah [00:23:54]:
Like, no, you, you don't wanna become that person, but it's just about being intentional about getting your voice heard when it matters.
David Hall [00:24:02]:
Yeah. Great advice. And, yes, have an agenda. You know? And and if you're a participant and you don't have one, ask ask about it. Is there an agenda? And I've heard other people say that as well. It's like speak first or speak early. And you really are you know, even if you're not dominating the converse conversation, you're establishing yourself early that I have something to say, and and the conversation isn't moving on without you. And so that's part of the preparation is making sure you do have something to say that you are contributing to the conversation.
David Hall [00:24:41]:
Or as you mentioned earlier, we're keen observers, so we might ask some very relevant questions. You know? Like, what about this? What about that? And that's questions are are very important too, as you said.
Lissa Appiah [00:24:53]:
Yeah. I completely agree with that. And that's a strategy I used for many years. You know? Because I knew that I would sometimes just get in my head so much and not say anything, I just, you know, remove that pressure and just listen to the conversation and then just look out for times where, you know, maybe people aren't considering something, and then you ask that question. So that that is a strategy that works very well.
David Hall [00:25:19]:
And as we establish ourselves, as you establish yourself as the expert in something, you may say something in the meeting, but then maybe they might even say, hey, Lisa. What do you think about this? Because they know you're thinking. Once they get to know you and may happen, you know, they they recognize that you're the expert.
Lissa Appiah [00:25:36]:
Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. I leverage LinkedIn. Obviously, it's not the only platform for building your personal brand, but it's one of the main ones just because it's a professional, networking platform. But, what I focus on, especially when I'm working with my clients, is supporting them in building their personal brands. Because what I found even through my own journey and with my my clients is that your personal brand helps you attract opportunities instead of chasing them. So and that's sometimes a challenge that a lot of introverts have is that, you know, I don't wanna constantly put myself out there.
Lissa Appiah [00:26:15]:
I don't wanna constantly have to pitch for this. I don't wanna have to you know, so to avoid all that that you don't want to do because it's not natural natural to you, you
David Hall [00:26:26]:
can build your
Lissa Appiah [00:26:26]:
personal brand, which allows people to understand your expertise. It allows people to understand what you have to offer. And eventually what happens is that you start attracting people instead of always chasing opportunities. And this is a strategy that I help my clients with also even for networking. Sometimes something that I will recommend to my clients is when you're going to a networking event, wear something bright, wear something that will get people's attention, jewelry that will catch someone's attention. I've seen some people, like, even wear t shirts with certain words, like, come talk to me or something like that. But that is a way to attract people towards you instead of always having to be the person to to start the conversation. And the reason I found that it works with introverts is because a lot of times we're we're good at sustaining conversations because we're thinkers, you know, as you're talking, we're thinking about, oh, okay.
Lissa Appiah [00:27:20]:
This is how the conversation with will go, But we're not always great at initiating conversations. So as much as possible, if you can start attracting the people towards you, then it makes the work a lot easier.
David Hall [00:27:32]:
Yeah. Do you have any advice on initiating the conversations?
Lissa Appiah [00:27:36]:
You know, for me, I it's still some I I would say I'm still not I I haven't reached I haven't mastered it. I'm not the best at small talk. I know it. Something that I do often is if I go to a networking event, I will sometimes go with someone else. My husband is is is an extrovert. So for example, I will go somewhere with him because I call him the king of small talk. He'll just talk about anything and start a long conversation. So sometimes I will go to a networking event with someone like that to be able to you know, they'll initiate the conversation, and then I can kind of jump in at some point.
Lissa Appiah [00:28:17]:
So that does help. For me, you know, I there are the easy go tos like the weather or, you know, stuff like that that you can you can start a conversation, especially I'm in Canada. So, you know, the weather is just part of our our daily lives. But, other thing that I found is just asking good questions again. Like, sometimes, instead of saying, like, how was your weekend? I'll ask something like, is there anything exciting that you did this weekend? So that helps someone think, oh, okay. Like, what was exciting about my weekend? And often, they'll share a lot more than just saying how was your weekend. They'll say, oh, good. You know? So trying to ask questions that allow people to share more so that you have more to work with when you wanna start the conversation.
David Hall [00:29:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. And we definitely, you know, we we don't wanna stay in the small talk. We don't wanna stay there forever. We wanna get to stuff that we're interested in. And I've learned, I I you know, you can definitely get better at it, and, you know, don't beat yourself up about it. But, you know, I've learned, you know, just, like, kinda be observant, you know, what's going on. Maybe you're in an event and, you know, you could talk about what's being the food that's being served or the speaker that, you know, is coming up or whatever.
David Hall [00:29:39]:
Just be observant about what's going on around you. You know? Yeah. The weather. I I think things like the weather, it's like sometimes it's like, well, I don't care about the weather, so why would I ask them about it? But it it is a common one for sure.
Lissa Appiah [00:29:54]:
It is definitely. Yeah. And I feel the same way. It's like even when I, you know, even when we have the conversation, it's just like, yeah, it's just it doesn't add value. And that's the thing with me. I want I want to get to Yeah. Like, I want to get to the beat of the conversation. So yeah.
David Hall [00:30:13]:
Absolutely. Also, Lisa, in your work, you you work a lot with leaders and leadership. Mhmm. What makes a great leader?
Lissa Appiah [00:30:22]:
Oh, what a question. I like it. What makes a great leader? I think someone who is definitely able to understand the people that they work with. Because at the end of the day, leadership is not about your expertise solely. It's about being able to manage and empower the expertise that you have around you. So I would say a great leader is someone who's able to recognize the value that every person brings to the team and knows how to leverage that to ultimately achieve the goal that you're trying to achieve. So it's all about people. I I would say, definitely, a great leader is someone who knows how to connect with people and then, empower them to deliver the result that the company or the organization wants.
David Hall [00:31:12]:
Yeah. And there's gonna be a wide variety of people. The diversity of personalities for sure, and it does take some time. But a lot of the things we're talking about are important for people to know. You know, whether you're an introvert or extroverted leader, leading introverts or extroverts, you know, most likely, you're you're gonna be leading both introverts and extroverts and need to understand those differences.
Lissa Appiah [00:31:36]:
Exactly. And, you know, a lot of times people what will happen is they ultimately want people who are like them. But if you want to build a team that is is brings a diversity of of different approaches, you can't just have a team of just extroverts. It's not it's not going to lead you to where you want to go. So, yes, most teams have a difference in personalities, difference in points of view, and that's what helps us get to where we want to go. Because somebody will notice something in a conversation. Another person will ask a question that will lead to the result that we're looking for.
David Hall [00:32:14]:
And, of course, we know that's not true.
Lissa Appiah [00:32:17]:
A big one and, you know, I would say this one is often underrated, but listening. I feel like introverts lead by listening and that is a huge win, especially with you know, there's been so many changes in corporate culture in the last couple of years from, you know, quiet quitting, great resignation, return to office. Like, there's been a lot of change. And so even being able to hear people out, understanding their needs and being able to support them. I think that's a huge strength that introverts have, just being able to lead by listening. And I would say another strength that introverts have, when we've talked about is just being observant and being able to recognize when, there's a person may have a need or even just being observant to call out something in a meeting that maybe everyone is overlooking. But because you're that person who's in the meeting, analyzing, paying attention, observing, you may notice things that other people overlook. You're you're often that person who can read between the lines and get to the solution that we're looking for.
Lissa Appiah [00:33:35]:
So I think those are huge strengths that introverts tend to have very naturally, and that are often overlooked, but can for career success.
David Hall [00:33:44]:
And I think those go hand in hand, the listening and observing, and just really just taking it all in. Like, what what's going on here? Where could we tweak something? What could we do differently? Wow. All of those things are are definitely introverted strengths.
Lissa Appiah [00:34:01]:
And even just calm. You know? Like, sometimes the level of stress in a in a meeting or when a decision needs to be made and just having that leader that is able to stay calm, composed, and, you know, yes, obviously, some situations can be stressful, but still being able to manage that without, it be being an issue for those who are working around you and just keeping that calm so everyone can go in the direction that's necessary. I feel like that's, a huge trend and that, you know, that's something that people have told me a lot of times just like, you know, it was so stressful, but you kept calm and that's what helped us get to where we needed to go. So and people notice those things. Right? They notice, how you respond to stress, how you respond to to various situations. So that does impact people as well. For me, it's just I try to think, like, what's the worst case scenario? Is this really the end of the world? Some things sometimes are made a bigger deal than they have to be. And for me, that's kind of how I see it.
Lissa Appiah [00:35:11]:
So for little things.
David Hall [00:35:13]:
Yeah. That's great. And I'm the same. What is gonna happen? I always have a plan. I always have a backup plan, and that keeps me calm because I'm like, yeah, this might not work because sometimes things don't work. But if it doesn't, here's what's gonna be. And I had that situation just the other day where someone was stressing about something. I'm like, it's gonna be alright.
David Hall [00:35:33]:
They said that to me that, oh, I appreciate how calm you are, exterior. You know? And sometimes I I've learned as a leader that you have to share. Yeah. Yeah. This is stressful. You know? We're gonna get through it, but because I might seem like I'm not caring because I have a calm exterior because a lot of stuff's going on inside. So sometimes as a leader, you just need to share. Yeah.
David Hall [00:35:55]:
Yeah. I'm I'm stressed about this too. But as you said, we're gonna get through this because, you know, this is gonna work out or or we'll do this thing or or whatever it is.
Lissa Appiah [00:36:05]:
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
David Hall [00:36:08]:
So for the introvert that isn't confident and I say that because, again, we busted the myth that introversion doesn't equal shyness.
Lissa Appiah [00:36:18]:
Yes.
David Hall [00:36:19]:
Some introverts are incredibly confident and incredibly outspoken. You know? So and that and sometimes they're not called introverts when they should be. But anyway so for those that aren't that way and want to be, what's your advice on being confident as an introvert, being a confident introverted leader?
Lissa Appiah [00:36:38]:
I would say, really, get the take the time that you have alone. You know, we often like being alone. Take that time to get to know yourself and get to know what you bring to the table. And as I was saying, sometimes it's things that we overlook that we do naturally that can be leveraged for our advancement. So firstly, take the time to get to know yourself. And then also take the time to get to understand what are you looking to achieve. Because for some people, maybe career advancement is not even a goal for them. And which is fine.
Lissa Appiah [00:37:11]:
Maybe leadership is not where they want to go. And that's completely okay. But then understanding what it is that you want to achieve and then fill the gap. Because if, you know, you understand yourself, you know what you're able to do, you also understand that there's a goal you're trying to achieve. Often what happens is that there's a gap. Maybe you're not the best public speaker. Maybe you're not the best at, being able to, articulate the skills that you have or the strength that you have. So then based on the gap that exists, if you need to get support, get support.
Lissa Appiah [00:37:45]:
If you need to get training, get training. You need to read a book, read the book. You know? There's so many resources that we have now available online that can support us, in our our personal and personal development. But then sometimes you may need someone to support you through the journey, then seek that support to be able to get where you want to be. But my best like, the most important thing I would say is don't stay stuck because that's where you you can find yourself becoming stagnant. So, ultimately, once you've done that assessment, find the gap and see how you can bridge the gap.
David Hall [00:38:22]:
How do we get unstuck if we find ourselves stuck?
Lissa Appiah [00:38:26]:
Definitely, I would say getting the right resources. And then, also, if you need support, get support. Because that place of being stuck, you can you're gonna stay there for a while if you don't get yourself out. But also, what I would say also makes a huge difference is what are you thinking? Sometimes we are, you know, we are people who analyze things a lot, and we have a lot of thoughts, which is great. But what are those thoughts? Are they the right thoughts that will help you get to where you want to be? Or are these thoughts just keeping you stuck in that same position? So, you know, listen to yourself as you're thinking. What are you telling yourself? What is the narrative that you are telling yourself? And how is that influencing the actions that you're actually taking? Because a lot of times, the things that we do, the actions that we take, they start from our thoughts. It was a thought that you had that ultimately caused you to wear this shirt today instead of that shirt. It all starts from your thoughts.
Lissa Appiah [00:39:29]:
So your thoughts have a lot more power than we think. And so being able to recognize that and sometimes adjust the narrative can help you get unstuck.
David Hall [00:39:42]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And you also were mentioning that, you know, introverted leaders, we do need some time alone. How do you find that balance of the time alone that you need and the time that you need with your team and with others?
Lissa Appiah [00:39:57]:
Yeah. I'm very intentional in terms of, like, blocking off time in my calendar. I I have, like, blocks of times depending on the day and how many meetings I have, but I do block off, quite a bit. Earlier in my career, sometimes I would do a meeting free day. Now it's not it's not possible to have days without meetings, but, you know, those are some of the strategies that can can help whether you wanna do a meeting free day or even a meeting free afternoon, or you if it's only an hour or half an hour that you're able to block off, like, managing your time properly so that you can balance your energy level. I think that has been the most important thing for me as an introverted leader. And then also communicating with people. Like, you know, I've communicated to the people that I work with that I do prefer to, you know, text or email is my preference.
Lissa Appiah [00:40:53]:
But then I obviously, if we need to talk something through, yes, let's have a phone call. But do we have to be on video all the time? No. Not necessarily. You know? Sometimes we can do a phone call. Other times, you know, you can communicate that by email. So even the ways in which we communicate can have an impact on our energy levels. And so letting people know that, hey, this is the way I prefer to communicate and finding out for them how do they prefer to communicate and then where can we find a balance.
David Hall [00:41:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. So your calendar and communication, those are two very important things. You know, finding even if you can't have a meeting free day, make blocks of time. And like I said earlier, it's not just about recharge. That's important. But sometimes, to use your gifts of thinking, you need to give yourself some time to make some plans, to focus on some work. So there's there's different reasons we need.
David Hall [00:41:51]:
So definitely, managing your calendar and telling people, here's what I need. You know? I need this time alone to work on this thing, or here's my communication preference that you talked about. Those things are are so key to our success as introverts.
Lissa Appiah [00:42:08]:
Definitely. Yeah.
David Hall [00:42:11]:
Lisa, we've talked a little about a lot of great things today.
Lissa Appiah [00:42:13]:
We did. Is there
David Hall [00:42:14]:
anything else you wanna you wanna discuss?
Lissa Appiah [00:42:18]:
No. Really just letting people know that being an introvert, it's not a hindrance. It doesn't hinder your career. And for a long time, that's what I thought. Like, I thought that I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to succeed because of my personality. But it's not a hindrance. It's just about you understanding what you have to offer and leveraging it. So, yeah, sometimes it can feel like it's it's, oh, you got through it and now we understand ourselves and and that's just part of the journey.
David Hall [00:42:46]:
So where can people find you and find out the great work that you're doing?
Lissa Appiah [00:42:51]:
Yeah. To find me, I would say LinkedIn is the best place. I do spend quite a bit of time on LinkedIn, so I would be glad to connect with you on LinkedIn. And then in terms of the services that I offer, you can go through my website, which is weapply.ca, and I would be glad to have a call with you, talk about your goals, and take things from there.
David Hall [00:43:12]:
Yeah. I've also seen you on YouTube.
Lissa Appiah [00:43:14]:
Yes. I am on YouTube. Oh, I I forget my YouTube sometimes, but, yes, I I am on YouTube.
David Hall [00:43:20]:
Alright. Well, thanks again, Lisa. This has been a wonderful conversation.
Lissa Appiah [00:43:24]:
Thank you. Thank you. It's been great, David.
David Hall [00:43:26]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more.
David Hall [00:44:03]:
Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert, and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs, and be strong.