Ep 215 - 0vercoming the Fear of Public Speaking, Especially for Introverts with guest Salvatore Manzi

Are you an introvert who shies away from the spotlight, especially when it comes to public speaking? 

Tune into this episode of The Quiet and Strong Podcast, where host David Hall sits down with Salvatore Manzi, a seasoned leadership communications coach and self-proclaimed introvert, to uncover strategies that transform the way introverted leaders approach public speaking. 

You'll learn how to leverage your natural strengths, build confidence, and create memorable and compelling speeches, all while staying true to yourself. Listen in as Salvatore shares his insights into understanding key differences between introverts and extroverts and how these unique attributes can be channeled into your communication style. 

Hear about the power of preparation, the significance of storytelling, and the art of mastering your energy when presenting. This episode not only promises to inspire, but also equip you with practical tools to face public speaking with ease and authenticity. 

Embrace your introverted strengths—and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/215

Salvatore Manzi, a leadership communications coach with over 20 years of experience helps technical, analytical and introverted leaders amplify their influence and impact. With emphasis on frameworks, principles, and techniques, Salvatore empowers leaders to connect authentically and navigate high-stakes engagements with confidence. He’s an introvert who learned to harness the power of owning the spotlights and shares his passion for collaborative team environments through effective communication.

Connect with Salvatore:

Website: SalvatoreManzi.com
Socials: LinkedIn

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
Gobio.link/quietandstrong
david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Transcript

Salvatore Menzi [00:00:00]:
I got my start because my father was a conference presenter. He would go out and he would speak at conferences and such, and so it seemed like a natural thing to do. And when I got into it in college, I realized that most of the training and such was geared towards extroverts. Like, it was tips and techniques or whatever for extroverts and not so much for introverts. And so I dove into psychology and neuroscience and understanding how the brain interprets processes, hears information, and started using frameworks. And I have been using that and helping other people pretty much within the technical, scientific, analytical fields, introverts, that develop more tools for presentation whether they have to speak to the entire company or on all hands or even go in from the United Nations.

David Hall [00:01:01]:
Hello, and welcome to episode two fifteen of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall, and the creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we will our each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show.

David Hall [00:01:30]:
Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there. The introversion is a beautiful thing. Today's guest is Salvatore Menzi, a leadership communications coach with over twenty years of experience helping technical, analytical, and introverted leaders amplify their influence and impact. With emphasis on frameworks, principles, and techniques, Salvatore empowers leaders to connect authentically and navigate high stakes engagement with confidence. He's an introvert who's learned to harness the power of owning the spotlight and sharing his passion for collaborative team environments through effective communication. Alright. Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Salvatore. It's very great to have you on today.

Salvatore Menzi [00:02:17]:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

David Hall [00:02:19]:
So we're gonna get into the work that you do. Tell us about that. Tell us about your journey at to the work that you do now.

Salvatore Menzi [00:02:27]:
Thank you. I am a leadership communication coach. I help people overcome their fear of public speaking. I help them create frameworks and master techniques of delivery and work on the underlying, like, beliefs, history, expectations that drive our sense of resourcefulness when we stand up to present. And I've been doing this for a little over twenty years now. I got my start because my father was a conference presenter. He would go out and he would speak at conferences and such, and so it seemed like a natural thing to do. And when I got into it in college, I realized that most of the training and such was geared towards extroverts.

Salvatore Menzi [00:03:11]:
Like, it was tips and techniques or whatever for extroverts and not so much for introverts. And so I dove into psychology and neuroscience and understanding how the brain interprets processes, hears information, and started using frameworks. And I have been using that and helping other people pretty much within the technical, scientific, analytical fields, introverts, that develop more tools for presentation, whether they have to speak to the entire company or on all hands or even go in front of the United Nations. So that's

David Hall [00:03:46]:
Alright. Very cool. So did you well, at what point did you figure out you were an introvert?

Salvatore Menzi [00:03:52]:
Yeah. This is a tricky one because I didn't have the word for it. I'm curious about like, I'm curious to hear your story on this too. Yeah. Of course. I remember in high school, I took some sort of my best friend, she had this, like, Vogue magazine personality test kinda thing, and I took it and I I came out as, like, the the wah wah, like, the the quiet.

Salvatore Menzi [00:04:15]:
And she was like, that's okay. You don't have to be that way. And I I developed this perception that it's not okay to simply be quiet. I have to, like, perform. I have to show up. And because I was around her and I don't know about you, but I have always had an emotional support extrovert in my life, like, somebody who I could go to a a party with, who would do all the talking and stuff like that. Because of her, I I I've started to see this duality within myself of, like, the expenditure it would take to show up and perform, and then when I would have the time to, like, just drop and just be more myself in a quieter space. And so it was in college when I took the Myers Briggs.

Salvatore Menzi [00:04:58]:
I know you're certified in that. And I understood the the polarity between the two, and I was like, introvert right here. That's me. What about you? Like, how did that how did that come about for you?

David Hall [00:05:12]:
Similar. I think it might have taken me a little longer. It was after college for sure. But the Myers you know, and and like a lot of people on the show, sounds like a little bit of you too, was I thought something was wrong with me. You know? Why can't I be more like this person or that person? And I got a degree in psychology and a master's in counseling, and and it really was the turning point taking the Myers Briggs, getting certified in it, and hearing hearing the facilitators say introverts think and then speak, extroverts speak in order to think. I'm like, oh, yeah. That like you said, that's me. That's me.

David Hall [00:05:52]:
I also did I got certified in doing the CliftonStrengths, and that's not about introversion, extroversion, but it is about naturally occurring strengths. And so the combination of those things was really life changing for me. It's like, yeah. I'm an introvert. I have certain needs, but I also have some great strengths, and everybody does. They're just different. They're not all the same. That that so that was real.

David Hall [00:06:17]:
Myers Briggs was instrumental for me too.

Salvatore Menzi [00:06:20]:
That was a question I wanted to ask you. I've done the CliftonStrengths as well, and strategic came out as one of my top ones. And that's also attributed to introversion. Like, a lot of introverts are strategic finding. Do you find within the strengths finder that there are particular like, introverts tend to gravitate towards these?

David Hall [00:06:40]:
I think so. I definitely would like to do some more research on it. And if people don't know and it's been called. So I originally took it as strengths quest. It's strengths finder. Now it's called CliftonStrengths. And it it looks at 34 strengths, and it gives you your top five because the idea behind it is you focus on your strengths, not your fixing your weaknesses. We have to deal with our weaknesses, but the main focus is the strengths.

David Hall [00:07:06]:
And there are certain things, like in my top five is intellection. If you look and read that one, I think that sounds like introversion to me. Or I think Relator is one that where you're really good one on one. I think a lot of introverts are that way. The strategic, I think that's definitely a a strength that that introverts have because we're always thinking. And I think if a extrovert has that one, they're probably just it's a little different. You know? It's a little different the way they approach it. And that's the whole thing.

David Hall [00:07:36]:
It's like, we have our gifts, but our approach to success can look different from our colleagues because we have our own gifts, especially. And there's a lot more to it than introversion, extroversion.

Salvatore Menzi [00:07:48]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:07:48]:
I just focus here because there's a big difference that's misunderstood. And we're gonna definitely talk about that, especially around public speaking. If you can understand introversion and being successful in public speaking in other areas of life and work, then then that's a a big key.

Salvatore Menzi [00:08:06]:
It really is. It really is. Yeah. And my number one strength was individualization. Yeah. I was like, okay. And are they just calling me out as an introvert here?

David Hall [00:08:16]:
Yeah. And, I mean, I'm sure that comes into play because, you know, and the people that you're working with, you see them. You see their strengths. You see their uniqueness, and that that's amazing.

Salvatore Menzi [00:08:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So, of the strengths of the in introversion strengths, it was strategic is really the one that, like, highlights the most for me. I think and you mentioned this. We are more thoughtful, typically tend to be more thoughtful. I would offer more observant. When people ask me what sets me apart as an introvert, I will often point to I'm really in tune with my intuition.

Salvatore Menzi [00:08:52]:
And I think that comes from being more observant and being more reflective. And in those that combination, I'm able to anticipate what's happening in the room to the point that I can have empathy for that person before they even really get to that point of, like, disclosure around what's happening. Or I can anticipate what's happening so that I can start to prepare for what I need to present afterward. So, yeah, looking at my gifts of being an introvert versus, like, my high school friend telling me that she used the phrase, you know, watermelon can become a cantaloupe, and I'm like, that makes no sense. But her idea was she wanted me to play as a watermelon with her, and now, like, just embrace my own cantaloupeness, I guess.

David Hall [00:09:43]:
Well, I mean, what she said is true if you change a word in there. This is a watermelon can't be a cantaloupe.

Salvatore Menzi [00:09:50]:
Thank you.

David Hall [00:09:52]:
And it it's like it's there's so many misconceptions, and it's really that we turn inward more often than not, which is you just well said. There's strengths that come from that. You're very observant, and you can see things, often things that other people are missing, you know, because of that. And we process things internally. You know? We often and I always you know, I don't speak in absolutes. We often think before we speak, and it's just natural because we're taking in information. We're putting it all together and then sharing what we think is most important, whereas extroverts are probably sharing just about everything. And and as I talk about this, I'm not saying either is good or bad.

David Hall [00:10:32]:
You know? You can be a watermelon or a cantaloupe. We both

Salvatore Menzi [00:10:35]:
agree. Hello. We're gonna stick with this phrase. Like, this is this is something in public speaking because I speaking because I I judge when somebody asks a question, especially in a meeting, there there's what's called the delay bias. It's an unconscious bias that we all have. If a person doesn't answer within a certain amount of time, we somehow see them as less than. Right? So and we all know this. We know this from growing up in schools where the teacher would call on you.

Salvatore Menzi [00:11:02]:
If you didn't have an answer, she'd go to somebody else or she would say something or he. Sorry. The the idea being in that that extrovert is going to just start spitballing and bring the class along with their thinking to get to their point. Most of us are exhausted by the time they get to it if they take too long to get there. An introvert on the other side doesn't respond right away, wants to think, but because of the setting, I find introverts feel obligated to jump in and say something. And that double pressure of, like, okay. Now I have to say something quickly, and I can't really be my natural self here. It creates this loop that prevents prevents us from being our most resourceful self in situations.

Salvatore Menzi [00:11:48]:
A lot of people go into psychological safety. Like, do I feel safe to just make a mistake here? Like, we could argue that, but, like, I don't think a lot of spaces are set up for an introvert to process and then deliver the way that I would like to, generally, in that regard. So I don't know. I kinda went on a riff there. But, like, that idea of, like, think before you speak. Yes. And in a lot of context, we're not allowed to. It's simply not allowed.

Salvatore Menzi [00:12:17]:
So we have to perform and go outside our comfort zone to do so.

David Hall [00:12:22]:
Yeah. And it's not even going outside your comfort zone. It may not be your best thoughts. You know? And often our best thoughts come with time. And, you know, we definitely talk a lot about the need to prep to prepare, and that's something I learned. As we as we start talking about public speaking, I learned that I used to present a lot with a extroverted friend, and my preparation looks so much different than hers. She prepared, of course, but she was better at the you know, getting up there and being more spontaneous than me. And, you know, I was like, well, I could be jealous, or I could just learn what my gifts are and and prepare like I should.

David Hall [00:13:00]:
And then what you were saying, so many people, both introverts and extroverts, fear the silence in conversations or in a meeting, and it's like, let me think about this. And sometimes sometimes we don't need that. Like, I bet as we're talking about public speaking and ways to be successful, you're not gonna need a lot of time to think. This is your expertise, so you're not gonna need that. But if we start talking about something that's not your expertise, you might like, yeah. Give me a moment to think about that. And that's the thing. We need to not be afraid.

David Hall [00:13:35]:
We need to prepare as introverts, but we all need to not be afraid of a little silence. It's healthy. You know? It's like, let the introvert think, and and that's that's a good thing.

Salvatore Menzi [00:13:46]:
Yeah. I teach a lot of classes on meeting facilitation, especially for our team leads. And one of the things I teach is, like, give a ten second pause after asking a question. Don't let anybody raise their hand or put the answer out there. Like, give it ten seconds for the entire room to do it. Research shows we all need to process, turn it around, and then send it. And as you said, extroverts are starting out somewhere, not exactly what they mean, whereas introverts are going to process through all the background, look for the outsider information, put it together, and then come up with a answer rather than take us on a journey to an answer.

David Hall [00:14:26]:
Yeah.

Salvatore Menzi [00:14:28]:
It's not fair to the introvert to, like, not have that moment to to actually gather our thoughts before we speak, which I wish everybody would do.

David Hall [00:14:38]:
But Yeah. Well and, I mean, for us, it's not that we're sensory you know, it's not a self censoring thing. It's just a natural way that we mostly process. And extroverts, they they process out loud most of the time, and neither is good or bad. But if you don't understand, there could be some definitely some clashes in communication. It's like, okay. Why isn't he speaking? Or why is it that person let me get a word in? You know? And we need to understand this, on both sides of introversion, extroversion.

Salvatore Menzi [00:15:10]:
Yeah. And to that point, like, a lot of times when I'm working with a highly analytical, data driven engineer type person, I will offer, like, get used to saying things like, give me a second to think about that, or let me think about that, or even just say, thinking, and let the audience or let the listeners know that the wheels are turning kind of a thing so that their delay bias isn't confused and nobody else jumps in ahead of you kind of thing. I I call it share what you're thinking. Like, take, like, the don't follow the page of the extrovert and take us all the way through the whole thing, but, like, let us know that you're you're actively working on it, thinking. Like, even just tapping your head will help the the listener know that you're still connected. Right? Not every one of us can stare into the eyes of the person while we're holding a pause. Like, you know, like, it's it's kinda uncomfortable. So, like, doing this while while I look away and then coming up with an answer.

Salvatore Menzi [00:16:12]:
I mean, my favorite introvert of all times is Barack Obama. I mean, I I'm in communication, so I I'd hold him as the pinnacle of a good orator, eloquence, and he commanded that silence. They even called it they named it the Obama pause because he somebody would ask him an a question, and he would thoughtfully pause, reflect. And it just became such a a cadence that people got used to it and came to appreciate it because we knew what he did say after the pause was going to be on point, and it was direct. So

David Hall [00:16:49]:
Yeah. That's a great example, and we do need to just just say it or signal it. You know? Like, I'm thinking or give me a moment to think about that. Some cases, it might be, you know what? Let's talk about that tomorrow. Great. Pretty

Salvatore Menzi [00:17:06]:
much something to get back to

David Hall [00:17:07]:
you tomorrow. Yeah. It just depends on the situation. You can't do that in the podcast today, though.

Salvatore Menzi [00:17:12]:
Oh, darn. Thanks for the warning.

David Hall [00:17:16]:
Yeah. I'm I'm curious. So you said you started researching. So early on, you figured out there was a difference between introverts and extroverts at the beginning of your career?

Salvatore Menzi [00:17:26]:
No. It wasn't so much that. And, again, in my mind, it was analyst and, like, I kinda kinda kinda kinda thought of it as, like, analyst scientists, data driven.

David Hall [00:17:37]:
Okay.

Salvatore Menzi [00:17:37]:
This is the colorful storytelling, blah blah blah.

David Hall [00:17:40]:
Gotcha. Gotcha.

Salvatore Menzi [00:17:41]:
And I put them in these two buckets, and I was what what kinda sparked I know this is gonna sound a little off tangent, but it was a language class. I started taking a foreign language. And I don't know why, but it was an in my mind when they said the word ciao. It comes from the word ciao, which means I am your slave. So when Italian says ciao, they're actually saying I am your slave. We would translate to be more like I'm at your service. How can I help you? I'm here for you. All that kind of thing.

Salvatore Menzi [00:18:12]:
And it was an for me that words aren't taken at face value. There's always a deeper meaning, and there's a way of layering the meanings by, like, stacking the words in a particular order to help the brain understand what is meant to be conveyed. Like, we're all trying to communicate our thoughts, which are not words, into words to a person. And that's why I went down this rabbit hole of research of psychology and neuroscience of how these things come together so that we can communicate more effectively. And I've come up with a whole list of frameworks now for different contexts that can be deployed especially for analytical, technical, introverted people so that it can become more fluid and easy, like a muscle that you can pull on in those moments, whether it's an impromptu talk or it's the opening of a presentation or you're answering a question. Like, there's frameworks that can that research shows will help to unlock the listener's mind as we're explaining the information. That's how I got into this, like, analytical side, and then I started helping other people. Like, okay.

Salvatore Menzi [00:19:23]:
You wanna get up on the stage. Good for you. I don't crave the spotlight. I want you up on the spotlight. Let's help make sure that your message is going to land and have impact and have meaning. So

David Hall [00:19:33]:
Yeah. So when did you put a name to it for the people you're working with? When did you say, yes. The the this is introversion?

Salvatore Menzi [00:19:42]:
I I think it was probably about ten years ago when I was working deep in, technology sector and working primarily with engineers.

David Hall [00:19:52]:
Okay.

Salvatore Menzi [00:19:52]:
And somebody in the class used the term introvert. I'm like, am I allowed to say this? I don't wanna label anybody. But I started calling it introvert, and people started resonating with it. And then I was able to, like, become more of a a champion for introverts, like, telling managers there needs to be time for an introvert to think. There needs to be a structure that would allow those strengths to rise naturally, not just in an extroverted type of meeting.

David Hall [00:20:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you did if if this doesn't make it into a clip, you did a good thinking face just now. Yeah.

Salvatore Menzi [00:20:31]:
It's real. It's real.

David Hall [00:20:32]:
It's real. So you do a lot of work with public speaking. What let's start with what makes a good speech?

Salvatore Menzi [00:20:39]:
Love the question, and I fear it's possibly a little subjective. I would say Okay. Objectively, a good speech is gonna be one that's memorable and compelling. If it's if I hear a great speech and three days later, I don't even remember what it was about, was it a speech or was it just really entertaining? Right? To me, a great speech is gonna be memorable, and it's gonna be compelling. It's going to give me something that's gonna get my noodle going, and it's going to inspire me in a way that's going to drive me in a particular direction, even if it's just to ask more questions or do more research or whatever it is. So I would say compelling and woah. I forgot it. Compelling and memorable.

Salvatore Menzi [00:21:26]:
But would you how would you qualify subjective or objective? What makes a good speech for you?

David Hall [00:21:33]:
The same thing. You know? That it really it it it's inspiring to do something, you know, and and not just like you just said, forget it and, you know, think, oh, that was great, but just really give some ideas and some things to think about.

Salvatore Menzi [00:21:54]:
Yeah. And everybody has the possibility of doing that when with the right framework, we can make things memorable when we know how the brain works, interprets information. Myers' big question. There's sensing and perceiving and feeling. Like, these are all ways that we perceive our environment. Like, to you, what's the biggest difference between those given your expertise?

David Hall [00:22:21]:
Yeah. So with the Myers Briggs, there's there's, you know, four different letters, and they could be mixed up, you know, 16 different ways. And there's introversion, extraversion. There is the the next one is n or s, and the n should be I, but the I is already taken. So it's intuitive or sensing. And so there's many types of introverts and extroverts. So the intuitive is really a big picture person. You know? Lots of other things, but and the sensing is they really need the details.

David Hall [00:22:55]:
And you have to understand that. You know? You have to understand No.

Salvatore Menzi [00:23:00]:
I get it.

David Hall [00:23:01]:
Yeah. And then the feeling or thinking, it's the thinking is more of a analytical approach. And the feeling, some people are actually empaths where they feel the feelings of others. I'm a thinking person, and so I for whatever reason, why ever I was created to be more of a thinker than a feeler. I don't know. But I use my imagination when I'm trying to have empathy for somebody, whereas somebody that's feeling might actually just actually feel those feelings and, you know, both are gifts. But just like introversion, extroversion, if you don't understand you're a thinker and the other person's a feeler, you can really you could there can be some hurt feelings as as the way we approach people.

Salvatore Menzi [00:23:46]:
A %. And that is to me the key of communication. It's understanding my audience and having a framework that allows you to communicate to all the different types of people. Like, I need to make sure when I make an opening statement that I'm not just talking to one particular part of the audience. I wanna talk to the feelers and the thinkers in there.

David Hall [00:24:09]:
Yeah. And then the last one is is judging, which doesn't mean judgment. It means more like you're organized and that kind of planned, and perceiving is more spontaneous. Me and my wife have the first three letters are the same, and the last two are different. So I'm the j for judging, and she's the perceiver. And she is a lot more spontaneous than me, and she also can reduce my anxiety that I get because I am more planned. And, you know, she would probably disagree if she was right here with me that I bring order to her life, But we do we do. That that is that is something.

David Hall [00:24:50]:
And and it it's not gonna change. Like, I could try to make her, you know, more of the j or she could try to make me more of the p, but it wouldn't work. We wouldn't be happy. Instead, we're happy because we realized, hey. You know, this is this is a good thing. And and that's so, yeah, thanks for talking more about the Myers Briggs. It's

Salvatore Menzi [00:25:06]:
Yeah. I'm fascinated by that. And they and it's actually helping me as you're talking more about it. And I love that you and your partner have found a way of balancing each other. Like Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely on the j side as well. Like, this one, you spoke to me.

Salvatore Menzi [00:25:20]:
No. I need a plan.

David Hall [00:25:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Salvatore Menzi [00:25:23]:
What time does the event start? Yeah.

David Hall [00:25:26]:
Yeah. And that that's what keeps me calm most of the time is that I have a plan. Yeah. You know? But sometimes, you you could still get stressed, and it's it's nice to have that more calming attitude. You know? And it it does help. But and that's the whole thing with all of this. It's like we we do come naturally different. What what are those differences, and how can we complement each other?

Salvatore Menzi [00:25:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that planning and preparing really goes into the public speaking or or presenting and so forth. Like, how do we prepare ourselves, especially as introverts, to be ready for either that impromptu meeting that could turn into a high stakes, like, magnifying glass at our work? Or how do we prepare for that presentation that we're doing that we already have the facts and we can just go through? There's still gonna be that unknown variable at the end of the q and a, typically. Typically, there's a q and a. And as a communication coach, when I'm working with a client, one of the first things I always say is, like, what's the question you don't want them to ask?

David Hall [00:26:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. We dread that.

Salvatore Menzi [00:26:34]:
Right? But start there. Start there. What's the question you don't wanna get that out of the way. Have a plan in place for how to answer the dreaded question. And so much of the pressure is over. I'm no longer trying to prove or cover up or whatever. I'm like, I'm prepared to talk about this thing that is, you know, the the ugly dog in the room. I don't know.

Salvatore Menzi [00:27:01]:
Is there a good metaphor for that? Anyway, the maybe I should just skip skip it altogether.

David Hall [00:27:07]:
What what about so you try to think of the dreaded questions. You try to think of those. What about you get stumped by a question in the q and a? What what's some advice you have for that?

Salvatore Menzi [00:27:19]:
Number one advice for being stumped or in q and a, first of all, is a reframe. Q and phrase q and a is not a test of your knowledge. Q and a is a test of the relationship. Okay. So if I am not looking at, like, a q and a sec session as some sort of, like, jeopardy, I gotta, like, I gotta score. It's not a test. I'm looking at it as, like, how can I build more of a relationship with this person? It changes my frame of mind. Right? The second thing is, like, I don't have to have the answer.

Salvatore Menzi [00:27:54]:
I have to help them get to the answer. Right? And so rather than seeing them as my my nemesis, always bringing up the bad facts, like, okay. What do you mean point 2% off? Like, okay. Our data was correct. Why are you pointing out this point two? Like, rather than seeing that, like, seeing them as, like, a willing partner. I mean, they're asking questions is the highest level of engagement. This is like this means that our work is working. So it's a reframe in our mind.

Salvatore Menzi [00:28:22]:
This is not a test, and this person asking the question is actually a an example of how good my work is. Like, they're wanting to engage with me on this. Right? They're wanting to lock horns and wrestle about it, but I don't need to play that way. And I make a partner out of that person. And I'll, number one, validate or share something I appreciate about their question. Alright? This is really important, and this is critical when I'm working with a client is, number one, validate or share an appreciation for their question. And the insight I'm thinking, oh, you silly person, you stupid moron. Why are you asking that crazy question again? But I'm not gonna say any of that.

Salvatore Menzi [00:29:04]:
I'm gonna say, I really appreciate that you're expanding this conversation deeper into this area. Like, I want it to be authentic. I'm not gonna just be s, but I wanna say, what do I really appreciate about that? I appreciate that you took time to look at the numbers and that you have numbers to bring and present that we could look at as well. Like, I appreciate that you put time into this. I appreciate time that, you know, all this, like, start with appreciation because it diffuses the tension. That person starts to feel heard or seen or whatever. And then we can go into I you can go into a number of different pivots of, like, here's the answer have. I can't answer that, but here's what I can answer.

Salvatore Menzi [00:29:48]:
Or I can answer that right now, but I can get you an answer on it. One of those three is gonna be your runway towards moving the conversation along.

David Hall [00:29:58]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So how does an introvert prepare, and does it look different from a way an extrovert might prepare for that presentation or or speech?

Salvatore Menzi [00:30:10]:
Well, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on how you prepare, but I I would offer that because we tend to be better preparers anyway. Ideally, have your key points ready. Just have your key points ready. Don't ever write a script. People don't write scripts before a presentation because what happens is if I get a word off in the script, then everything kind of falls like dominoes. Have bullet points. Have your key points ready. Secondly, practice.

Salvatore Menzi [00:30:40]:
Literally practice, ideally in a mirror or record yourself on a phone, and then watch yourself to see what you appreciate from your practice. And then also possibly get a friend to listen to you prepare and deliver. What I always share though is don't make a big to do about memorizing or knowing the whole presentation. Just know how you're gonna start, how you're gonna end. Focus on those two things if you have no time for anything else. How are you going to start? What are the first words out of your mouth? How are you going to engage them, connect with them, get them in interested in your information? And where are you leaving today? You don't wanna end with a like, I guess that's that's all I have to say. You don't wanna end like that. You wanna end with a a solid ending.

Salvatore Menzi [00:31:30]:
So have your final, like, closing lines prepared so that whatever happens in the middle, even if you just flail out and come back in and out or whatever during the thing, you can land strong. Law of primacy, law of recency. First thing you say out of your mouth is gonna be something that has a greater weight than the rest of the presentation. Last thing you say, lot of recency, last thing you say out of your presentation is going to stick with them for the longest. So those two things are the things you wanna prepare for to make sure that your your listeners are left with a good impression. What about you? How do you what are your tips for preparing?

David Hall [00:32:14]:
Definitely, as introverts, we need to give this thought ahead of time. You know? So however ahead of time, whatever that is, you know, I'll I'll put together, like you said, the bullet points. I'm not writing a script, but the bullet points. I'm thinking of of the examples and stories I wanna tell. And then at some point, I let it sit. But, also, I let it sit in my back of my mind and the time between the when I, you know, kinda finish off my bullet points and the time I'm actually giving the presentation. My mind is still working on the presentation, and it's still, oh, yeah. You should say this or tell this story.

David Hall [00:33:00]:
And trying to capture those ideas as they come. You know? Whether it's just making a quick note on my phone or or or whatever. But my mind is still still working on the presentation. And I love how you said, yeah, the beginning and the end. Those are those those are the crucial pieces, aren't they?

Salvatore Menzi [00:33:19]:
Yeah. It's for the it's heavily weighted towards those two ends. And if I can get those two, then I'm gonna be I'm gonna do pretty well.

David Hall [00:33:27]:
Yeah. What are what's your advice for introverts for managing your energy around presentations?

Salvatore Menzi [00:33:33]:
Oh, such a good one. This is like everybody everybody experiences nerves. Right? Everybody has a fear of speaking in front of people, and this is biological, right, where our primitive brain sees a bunch of eyes staring at us and interprets danger. Danger. Run for your life. Right? So first thing to do is a mental reframe. Know that the nerves that are coming up are really excitement. It's a sign that you care.

Salvatore Menzi [00:34:04]:
This is a really good thing. If you're if you're feeling nerve before nerves before a presentation, that that's that proves you're not a psychopath. It's a very positive thing that you can find. So reframing it mentally to I am excited. This is excitement. And we can reinterpret our brain. It helps change a lot of it. Secondly, there is physiological things to take care of.

Salvatore Menzi [00:34:29]:
Like, if you have the ability to get up and move around, shake off some of the energy, it's ideal. Having to stay stuck still in a meeting waiting for your turn to present is harder, but you can still grip your hands and release. Like, you wanna not just hold the energy in. You wanna let it out. Secondly, along with the physiology, you can use your breath. I practice box breathing before a presentation where I count my breath, count my inhale, hold the inhale, count the exhale, hold the exhale, keep going at least three times, it lowers the nervous system and calms the body a great deal. And then, lastly, I would say that you've got the you've got your mental reframe. You've got your physiology in in place.

Salvatore Menzi [00:35:20]:
The the last thing just to think about is pause. Take time for yourself. Give yourself permission to be grounded and thoughtful and be yourself in there. So take a few seconds. The like Adam Grant used to say that, you know, one to three second pause, people think you might have lost your space. Fun fact, if you go beyond three seconds, people think it's on purpose. So if you did lose your space, forget what you're saying, just go a little bit further in your pause, but hold it up to 10. My when I was working with a communications coach, he had me get all the way to ten seconds, and it felt like a lifetime.

Salvatore Menzi [00:36:03]:
But once I got used to that, it became something that I could naturally pull on. And in those ten seconds, I can reground myself and prepare to get up in front of people. The last thing I'll leave with you, it's a little bit controversial, but I'll just say it. It's not about me. I have a hashtag not about me. I have to say it 10 times before a presentation. This is not about me. This is not about me.

Salvatore Menzi [00:36:29]:
This is not about me. This is not about me 10 times because I wanna focus on my message and the audience rather than focusing on myself. And when I can focus on the audience and my message, it becomes less about, like, did I say the right words? Did I get the right presentation? It becomes more about, did my message get out there? Did they understand it? And that becomes my focus. It lowers my internal stress as well.

David Hall [00:36:59]:
Also, talk let's talk more about that. And it's not about you. How does that also impact your speech as we were talking about earlier being compelling and memorable when you realize it's not about you? Let's talk more about that.

Salvatore Menzi [00:37:14]:
Yeah. The there's a natural human tendency to be self conscious. There is something called the spotlight effect where we believe that people are paying more attention to us than they really are. And the reality is when you get up to talk, people are thinking about the last meeting. They're thinking about that email they didn't send out. They're thinking about the lunch that they wanna have that day. They're not really thinking about us. So when I can change my mindset to be, this is not about me, it's about my message, it helps me focus more on what is the message that I want to bring and stay more connected with my audience so that I can see when they are actually getting it or not.

Salvatore Menzi [00:38:00]:
I can read the room a little better. Like, don't get too much into it. I I developed the not about me thing after the sour face. You know? Somebody gave me a sour face when I was presenting, and I was like, oh my god. This person is really offended by what I'm saying. Why are they so offended? And I was like, my my my dad is correct here, and everybody else in the room is loving this. Right? Why are you why are you giving me the sour face? And then afterwards, she came up to me, and she's like, that was the best presentation ever. And I'm like, honey, you should tell your face that because that's not the message you were sending.

Salvatore Menzi [00:38:34]:
So I I convinced myself. I used the not about me repeatedly because I don't know, maybe that person just has gas, or maybe that person is just, like, really sleepy or whatever. Like, I don't know what's going on in their mind, but it's easy for me to misinterpret their cues as something other than what they actually are. So

David Hall [00:38:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, it it can be an introvert problem that our thoughts in our head don't always match our face, our facial expressions. So, yeah, learn to not take things personally for sure.

Salvatore Menzi [00:39:12]:
Resting well.

David Hall [00:39:14]:
Yeah. Also, talk about just the message that people aren't really coming to hear about you. They're coming to hear what's in it for them kind of thing. So how do how do we work with that?

Salvatore Menzi [00:39:30]:
It it it I love that we're kind of peeling the layers here on this thing, and it's it's about being judged. Right? Are they coming to judge me as a person? The way I'm dressed today, the way I'm speaking, the way my hair looks. Are they like, how how much am I anticipating them judging me versus judging my material, my information, my data, my what I wanna share with them. If I'm focused on them judging me, it shuts down my ability to be resourceful and reach for creative ways of explaining what it is that I wanna share. If I'm I don't care what they think about me. If I have no more f's to give about what's going on, then I can focus just on my message. And I can focus on, like, creating, like, a really great experience for the listeners to engage with the information and the thought leadership that I'm providing to them. So it's it really is about, like, shifting that focus.

Salvatore Menzi [00:40:35]:
It's not about me. It's about that.

David Hall [00:40:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And then tell us a little bit about how stories play into all this, the power of stories, how you could prepare to bring some stories into your your speech or presentation.

Salvatore Menzi [00:40:50]:
Yeah. This is the good stuff. I see we're moving into the good stuff. Right? The stories are how the brain processes. Right? They they are intrinsically visual and emotional, and that is how the brain works. That's why it's so much easier to remember a story than it is a data point. It's so much easier to remember a metaphor than a data point. And with again, a lot of my clients are technical analytical scientists, those.

Salvatore Menzi [00:41:21]:
They have a lot of data, but they have to make that data relatable with some sort of a metaphor or analogy so that the it becomes memorable for them as well. I'm not gonna remember how many how many plastic straws are being released into the ocean right now, But I could remember, like, the size of a state being dropped in the middle of an ocean kind of a thing. It becomes that way. Stories engage a different part of our brain that allow us to remember and retain the information. But the most important part of a story is that it it's emotional. There's an emotional tie to it, and people don't make decisions based on facts. They make decisions based on emotions. All research shows this.

Salvatore Menzi [00:42:11]:
They've done brain scans on people as they were thinking, and the person will get a feeling and then start using thinking to justify the feeling. So if you're attempting to persuade your organization, team, whatever, to move in a direction, throwing tons of data is not gonna work. It's gotta be coupled with a story so that they can stand behind and feel the energy of what you're driving for.

David Hall [00:42:40]:
Yeah.

Salvatore Menzi [00:42:40]:
How do you use stories? You're you're you're a professor. You you speak all the time. Like, how do you see them showing up for you?

David Hall [00:42:49]:
It's just like you're describing. You know, we're built on stories, and I didn't always. You know? I I got this impression early on that, oh, well, you know, present the facts. And I definitely became much better at giving presentations when I started figuring out stories that people could relate to, like you're saying. And, you know, you have to give it it's not you just it's part of the preparation like I was talking about earlier. It's like thinking about, okay. This is this is a good story to talk about this thing. I'm not gonna be great.

David Hall [00:43:27]:
I might think of some stories on the spot, but in general, I'm gonna be better if I try to plan them ahead of time. And, again, after I've made my outline, my brain's working on stories. I'm, you know, I'm putting it in the back of my head, and it's saying, hey. You know what? This would be a really good example for this point you wanna make. And I try and capture that because if you don't capture it, it might get away.

Salvatore Menzi [00:43:51]:
Elusive. Yes. It's true. That's great. That's great.

David Hall [00:43:56]:
So you also talk about executive presence. How do you develop that while staying authentic to yourself?

Salvatore Menzi [00:44:02]:
I appreciate this question. A lot of people are have come to me because they are told they don't have enough executive presence in a meeting and any settings. Executive presence is not about volume. That's the first thing I would say. It's not about how loud you are. Executive presence is about space. Are you taking up all of the space that you are offered? Sit with your feet wide. Put your elbows out.

Salvatore Menzi [00:44:36]:
Throw your shoulders back. Sit up straight. If you're sitting at a table, spread your stuff out on the table. Take up literally space. Presence expands. Lack of presence constricts. When you see somebody who's at a meeting and they're like this, you know that they don't feel a % confident about being there. But if you are if you see somebody who's open and expansive and they've taken up space and they've got one arm over the back of their shoulder and one leg out, they are so comfortable you're wondering if they know where they are.

Salvatore Menzi [00:45:11]:
Right? Like, that's present. So that's the first. Second, voice. Calm confidence exudes executive presence. Now calm confidence is when my voice is one degree lower pitch and at least one degree slower in cadence. It's deliberate. It has enunciation. It's very focused.

Salvatore Menzi [00:45:39]:
We don't want to stay this way the entire time because people will think we're pedantic or patronizing. So you gotta vary it, but when you can master going into a calm confidence, tone of voice, and cadence while you're talking, you will exude that presence. The last thing I would say in terms of creating presence, executive presence, and being authentic with yourself. And I think this is where introvers are like, it's an easy one for us. Concision. The more a person continues to talk, the more we start to doubt the credibility of what they're saying. Person with great executive presence doesn't justify, defend, go on giving example after example after that. Introvert naturally falls into this category.

Salvatore Menzi [00:46:31]:
So lean into that concision and let what you said be what you said.

David Hall [00:46:38]:
Yes. Yes. And I definitely lean to the concise side, and I love that you said that because we're not saying everything. We're not sharing everything, but we're trying to share what we think is most important. And so that could be great. And, you know, when I'm talking about quiet, it doesn't mean shy, like quiet and strong. It just means often we're thinking. You know? And that's a good thing.

Salvatore Menzi [00:47:01]:
It is a good thing.

David Hall [00:47:04]:
So, Salvatore, we've talked about a lot of great stuff today. Is there anything else that you wanna discuss?

Salvatore Menzi [00:47:10]:
One thing I like to leave with people is the idea of spot it, got it. If you see somebody give a presentation and you think, wow. That was great, just your ability to spot that means that you have the capability of doing that. So make a list and push yourself out there courageously to try it. And whatever you spot somebody else doing, you've got to do as well.

David Hall [00:47:37]:
Yeah. And I often say that we have a superpower of reflection. I think all introverts share that. And so you can always think about, okay. You know? How'd that go? And what what is there anything I wanna, you know, look at and spot? You know? So I love that.

Salvatore Menzi [00:47:56]:
Yeah. Great. Thank you. Oh, thank you. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate, you know, partnering, collaborating with a fellow introvert and especially with your mastery of Myers Briggs and the strengths CliftonStrengths now. I wanna get the right word there.

David Hall [00:48:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Salvatore Menzi [00:48:12]:
It, like, it brought, like, the sensing perceiving. I'm gonna be chewing on the judging, sensing for the rest of the day. Like, thank you for

David Hall [00:48:18]:
sharing with me. Absolutely. Where can where can people find out more about you and the great work you do?

Salvatore Menzi [00:48:25]:
There's a my website is youthenmeplaybook.com. You then me you then me playbook Com. It's a workbook on communication strategies, and it's based on the principle of you then me, my number one principle of communication, which is if I can talk about you before I get to my agenda, there's a better chance of communication happening in a positive way. So you than meplaybook.com. I'm also available on LinkedIn.

David Hall [00:48:53]:
Very good. Thanks again. Great conversation.

Salvatore Menzi [00:48:56]:
Agreed. Thank you.

David Hall [00:48:58]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more.

David Hall [00:49:35]:
Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert, and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.