The Quiet and Strong Podcast, Especially for Introverts
The Quiet and Strong Podcast, Especially for Introverts
Ep 222 - Become The “Go-To Expert” Through Podcast Guesting, Especially For Introverts with guest Christina Lenkowski
Are you ready to move from “best kept secret” to the go-to expert in your field—without having to shout from the rooftops? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall is joined by podcast publicist and educator Christina Lenkowski to break down how podcast guesting can become your most powerful tool for personal branding and business growth, especially for introverts.
Christina shares her journey from PR pro to podcasting powerhouse, and together, they explore why podcast guesting is uniquely suited for introverts who want to expand their impact while staying true to themselves. You’ll discover practical strategies for finding the right podcasts, preparing for guest appearances in ways that suit your style, and building strong relationships with show hosts—all while authentically sharing your expertise. Christina and David also discuss the differences in preparation between introverts and extroverts, how to overcome the anxiety of being a guest, and why you definitely don’t have to be “perfect” to make a lasting impression.
If you’ve thought about sharing your message on podcasts but felt unsure where to start or worried you might not have what it takes, this episode is your sign to begin. Tune in, learn how to harness your introverted strengths for powerful results, and be strong.
Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/222
Christina Lenkowski is a forward-thinking podcast publicist and educator for business owners, speakers and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from “best-kept secret” to “go-to expert” in their industries through being a guest on other people’s podcasts.
In 2019, after 13 years working in the PR realm, Christina discovered what being a guest on podcasts did for her online-based business -- since then she’s dedicated her work to helping other business owners, particularly women, see the same kind of results. She’s been a guest on almost 100 podcasts.
Connect with Christina
Website: PublicityxChristina.com
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Christina Lenkowski [00:00:00]:
And that's the thing about podcast guessing is it's a muscle. It's a muscle. The first couple times you do it, I don't care if you're an introvert or an extrovert, you are gonna sweat and stumble your way through it for the most part. Okay? We all do that. I've been on almost a hundred podcasts. In fact, it may be even over a hundred at this point. And but if you were to listen to my first, I'm sure, five, ten, you know, whatever, they sound very different than I do now. And so I think that that's an important point to make is, like, you will get better over time.
Christina Lenkowski [00:00:30]:
It will get easier over time. That doesn't mean you're not prepping. That doesn't mean you're not putting the same amount of work into it, but it does just mean that you you feel a bit more comfortable if a question does get thrown at you that maybe you weren't necessarily prepared for, but you've done this before now.
David Hall [00:00:54]:
Hello, and welcome to episode 222 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David Hall and creator of quietandstrong.com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or rating. That would mean a lot to me.
David Hall [00:01:22]:
Help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast. Help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Christina Linkowski is a forward thinking podcast publicist and educator for business owners, speakers, and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from best kept secret to go to expert in their industries through being a guest on other people's podcasts. In 02/2019, after thirteen years working in the PR realm, Christina discovered what being a guest on podcast did for her online based business. Since then, she's dedicated her work to helping other business owners, particularly women, see the same kind of results. She's been a guest on almost a hundred podcasts. Alright.
David Hall [00:02:10]:
Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Christina. Christina, it's so good to have you on today.
Christina Lenkowski [00:02:15]:
Thank you, David. I'm so excited. I'm you know, we were talking a bunch before this and just kind of playing off some of the differences that we see between extroverts and introverts and kind of the publicity space. And so I'm really excited to dive into this today because there is absolutely room for all types of people to be successful once they know how to kinda manage that.
David Hall [00:02:35]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And you are an extrovert. We do let a few extroverts on the show.
Christina Lenkowski [00:02:39]:
I am. I know. I feel very I feel I feel really privileged that I get to be one of the the few extroverts you have on here, but I love the people. I love them. I wanna be around all the people. That's where I get all my energy from, and so I am just kind of that Enneagram seven full blown extrovert there.
David Hall [00:02:58]:
Yeah. And the other thing is we need everybody.
Christina Lenkowski [00:03:02]:
%.
David Hall [00:03:02]:
But, you know, in our conversation just now, you have a great understanding of the differences, and you appreciate the differences. You know? We we all bring different strengths, and we're gonna get into that today
Christina Lenkowski [00:03:11]:
Yes.
David Hall [00:03:12]:
Especially when it comes to using podcasting in marketing and things like that. So let's start. Just tell us a little bit more about you and your journey and why you do what you do now.
Christina Lenkowski [00:03:23]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So I have been in the PR and marketing world for a little over twenty years now, which makes me feel really old, but that is the way that it is. And I always grew up that I was gonna be a journalist, that I was gonna be in that world. And I remember my mom who was the director of a large nonprofit in my home state of Oregon was like, I think you're gonna be in PR, and I was like, no way. You don't even know me. You don't even get me. You know what I mean? I was, like, so sure that I was gonna do this thing.
Christina Lenkowski [00:03:51]:
And then I went on to edit the paper at my university, and I realized that it actually wasn't what I wanted to necessarily do. And people are always like, oh, that's such a bummer. You got your degree in this, and then it didn't even necessarily it wasn't necessarily what you wanted. But I was like, but that was actually the greatest thing of all was I learned really young that that wasn't exactly what I wanted to do, but I still wanted to be able to write. And so after college, after traveling for a year, I was offered a couple jobs, and one was in a PR department, and one was in a news at a newspaper. And I decided to go the PR route, and I've never really looked back. It's been a good blend for me of writing and still being able to be creative, but then also the social aspect that I really enjoy about that. And about five or so years ago, I started this agency that I have now, so right in 2020 kind of at the the beginning of the pandemic, if you will.
Christina Lenkowski [00:04:51]:
And I narrowed down into podcasts specifically. So that is the only type of publicity work that we do at our agency because I really do believe that it is the best way to build trust and authority with the audiences that wanna hear from you.
David Hall [00:05:10]:
Awesome. So that leads to my next question. I liked that you know, on your website, it says you help people through podcasting go from the best kept secret to go to expert. How how do you how do you do that?
Christina Lenkowski [00:05:24]:
That's such a great question. And the reason why I love to point that out is there are a lot of people out there. I'm sure people that are listening to this who are really freaking good at what they do. They are one of the best at what they do, but nobody knows it, right, outside of them and maybe some of their clients and maybe a couple other people. And I have a lot of people that come to me that have built their business based on referrals. Right? So they're like, I just put my head down. I'm really, really good at what I do, and that's what's built my business to where it is today. But they come to me at a certain point because they are not getting new leads into their business.
Christina Lenkowski [00:06:05]:
They're not getting new business. All those kind of referrals have not necessarily dried up, but they're just may not be coming in at the pace that maybe they were at a certain point. And so they're realizing that they need to be out there more. I think this is one of the biggest mistakes that entrepreneurs make is they kind of have that field of dreams mentality of if you build it, they will come. But in actuality, you need to also be putting yourself out into situations where you're getting in front of new audiences regularly.
David Hall [00:06:36]:
Yeah. And how does podcasting help with that?
Christina Lenkowski [00:06:40]:
You know, the thing about podcasting that is so wonderful and the thing that I really love about it is you are leveraging someone else's audience. Right? So I am getting out in front of someone else's audience. I am talking to them about something that hopefully is gonna bring a lot of value to them, make them look at something a little differently, etcetera. And in exchange, like, in exchange here, David is getting me in front of his regular listeners, the people that really respect and care about what he's saying day in and day out. And so this is a really important thing to note is, like, 70% of listeners of podcasts feel like they have a real connection with the hosts and the guests that they hear on that podcast. And I will say that for me personally, there are a couple podcast hosts where I'm like, I know them. Like, I feel like I really know them even though I don't know them. If I was to come up to them somewhere, they wouldn't know me from Eve.
Christina Lenkowski [00:07:35]:
But it is absolutely where I feel like I have that personal connection to them. And so podcasting, I mean, really, there's no better way to have people feel that type of connection with you. You're gonna be in their head, in their ears for thirty minutes, forty minutes, you know, whatever. And, love you or hate you, they're gonna have a feeling about you one way or the other at the end of that.
David Hall [00:08:00]:
Yeah. And then is the approach to podcast guesting, is it different for introverts than extroverts, do you think?
Christina Lenkowski [00:08:08]:
I would love to hear your opinion on this, David, but I will definitely give some thoughts on, like, how I prepare and kind of the things that I say. There are a lot of people that I speak at events or someone hears me on a podcast, and they're like, I love what you do, but I'm an introvert. Right? I could never see myself going out there on being on podcast. And I always like to shift that mentality because most of my clients are introverts. And the fact of the matter is when you do a podcast recording like what David and I are doing right now, it's just the two of us. There's no big I mean, my dog's barking, but there's no big, you know, big crowd of people or anything like that that's listening in to us. There's no expectation on that. If I mess something up and David was kind enough to say this before we hit record, you know, I do I can edit if something goes awry.
Christina Lenkowski [00:08:55]:
Right? So the pressure is really down. I'm having a one on one conversation. I'm able to be really authentic, and that's why it works so well for introverts. They really can feel comfortable and in their best space because they're doing what they do best, which is having a conversation. It's not that introverts, and you know this, don't like to connect with people, right, or talk with people. It's just that maybe it looks a little different. When it comes to the prep, what I was saying beforehand and, David, I know you can chime in on this. It's like, he sent over this beautiful list of questions, you know, beforehand of, like, hey.
Christina Lenkowski [00:09:29]:
Here's some of the stuff that I'm gonna ask you. Me personally and my extroverted are, I don't wanna look at the questions. I want to have him ask me them and me be able to give my, you know, real response in the moment. To me, that's what feels authentic. But, David, why don't you talk like, I would love for you to tell people a little bit about how you feel about that and kind of the example you even gave
David Hall [00:09:53]:
earlier. Yeah. Absolutely. And, yes, I am absolutely an introvert, and I love this conversation that we're having. I love podcasting. I don't get nervous anymore. I used to.
Christina Lenkowski [00:10:07]:
Love that.
David Hall [00:10:08]:
You know? But what it was was understanding that I'm a deep thinker.
Christina Lenkowski [00:10:14]:
Mhmm.
David Hall [00:10:14]:
I often need to think before I speak. It's just and it's not it's not a choice. It's just that's how I'm that's how
Christina Lenkowski [00:10:20]:
I'm wired.
David Hall [00:10:21]:
You know? Where often and and I use these words, you know, I I I say things, like, often or generally. Often, you probably are gonna think out loud, you know, and and and that's how you help form form your ideas. And it's just a difference, and it's not something that we choose. So with the preparation, and I have a lot of experience with this as I was telling you. I get all kinds of responses. I do send questions. And there it's not a script. You know? Like, I'm not looking at everything.
Christina Lenkowski [00:10:50]:
No. No. No. No.
David Hall [00:10:51]:
But it's a framework. It's
Christina Lenkowski [00:10:52]:
like Exactly.
David Hall [00:10:53]:
Here's and I do my preparation. That's really important, and we all do. You you're gonna prep in your way, and everybody's gonna do some preparation. But I am gonna say, here's what I would like to talk about. Please let me know if if we're going in a direction you don't wanna go or if there's something else that I'm not I'm not aware of that you want me to be aware of. So that's why I do that. Mhmm. You know, it's up to the guest how they prepare.
David Hall [00:11:18]:
Now Mhmm. Maybe someone doesn't send you questions and you're an introvert. You can ask for them, or you could also just do a lot of re you could listen to a lot of their shows. You could do a lot of other things to help prepare you for that episode. But there's the yeah. Go ahead.
Christina Lenkowski [00:11:36]:
Oh, no. I was just gonna say, absolutely, there are different ways to be prepared. So, like, the questions, like you said, sometimes hosts send them, sometimes they don't. It totally does depend. To your point, you can ask them. Some hosts are gonna say no. You know, they're not gonna send that stuff beforehand, but other ones are are definitely gonna be open to doing that. But like you said, that's actually how I prepare for any podcast episode is I always listen to an episode of that podcast within forty eight hours of when I'm gonna do my episode recording.
Christina Lenkowski [00:12:03]:
So I want it to be really fresh in my mind. I listened to at least one. I was saying to David, like, right before we hopped on. I was like, hey. I was listening to your episode this morning with Sal about public speaking. I really loved it. You guys got into CliftonStrengths. Like, you know, we kinda talked about that a little bit.
Christina Lenkowski [00:12:20]:
So there are all kinds of different ways to to prepare. There's also the knowledge that you will generally know the topic that you're gonna be talking about. Right? So you can really take a look at that topic. I, again, always do this, and I take a look and I think about a couple things, a couple points that I might wanna make around that topic on this particular podcast. And if I if I make them, great. But, also, if I don't, that's okay too. But I know that I went into that episode prepared as much as possible, again, even if I didn't have those questions ready for me. And one thing David said that I think is so important for every single person to hear is he's done it enough now.
Christina Lenkowski [00:12:58]:
He's not nervous about it. And that's the thing about podcast guessing is it's a muscle. It's a muscle. The first couple times you do it, I don't care if you're an introvert or an extrovert, You are gonna sweat and stumble your way through it for the most part. Okay? We all do that. I've been on almost a hundred podcasts. In fact, it may be even over a hundred at this point. And but if you were to listen to my first, I'm sure, five, ten, you know, whatever, they sound very different than I do now.
Christina Lenkowski [00:13:26]:
And so I think that that's an important point to make is, like, you will get better over time. It will get easier over time. That doesn't mean you're not prepping. That doesn't mean you're not putting the same amount of work into it, but it does just mean that you you feel a bit more comfortable if a question does get thrown at you that maybe you weren't necessarily prepared for, but you've done this before now.
David Hall [00:13:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I I'd like to think I started off great when I, I started this. We I'm going, I'm over four years now,
Christina Lenkowski [00:13:56]:
but I know,
David Hall [00:13:57]:
I know what you're saying is true. I know I'm absolutely better than I was four years ago.
Christina Lenkowski [00:14:02]:
We all are absolutely. That's just the natural progression. Yeah.
David Hall [00:14:05]:
And I remember the first podcast I was on. It was before I started this.
Christina Lenkowski [00:14:10]:
Yeah.
David Hall [00:14:10]:
And they they gave me a couple questions that I just had really never thought of before, and I was kinda thrown by them.
Christina Lenkowski [00:14:16]:
Yeah.
David Hall [00:14:16]:
But now if the same thing happened, I wouldn't be thrown. I would just you know, I'd have a great response because I've just so practiced now.
Christina Lenkowski [00:14:23]:
Yeah.
David Hall [00:14:23]:
And that and and that's what you just gotta start and do your best. Yep. You know, this applies to me podcasting or public speaking. I I've really told myself, you know, as far as, like, perfectionism goes, because that gets in a lot of our our way Mhmm. Is that, guess what? You're not perfect. You're gonna do your best preparation. But guess what? Nobody that's listening is perfect either.
Christina Lenkowski [00:14:48]:
Nope. Nope. And they're honestly not thinking about how you're not perfect too. Like like Right. You know what I mean? Like, I I have literally never been listening to a podcast guest and been like, they are not being perfect right now. You know what I mean? And if anything, I feel the opposite. Love when someone accidentally swears or there's, you know, something that doesn't quite go the way maybe they they thought it was gonna go. And it really makes you it it makes you realize, like, oh, this is a real human.
Christina Lenkowski [00:15:17]:
Right? This isn't just a polished machine. This is someone going through it. And I do those things all the time, and sometimes they get edited out. Some I mean, I don't mind if things stay in there because this is real life. Right? I I mean, I have had moments when, like, my daughter walks in in the middle of an interview. You know, something like that where I'm like, we could take that out. But, you know, for the most part, this is real life, and this is what it's like. And that's what people actually really relate to.
David Hall [00:15:42]:
Yeah. And as I think you said, a myth that we regularly bust on this show is the introverts don't like people. That's ridiculous. Absolutely. Yeah. Everybody likes people. We just may wanna connect differently.
Christina Lenkowski [00:15:54]:
Exactly.
David Hall [00:15:55]:
And I have found for myself, this has been such a great way to network. How how is podcasting a a great way to build relationships?
Christina Lenkowski [00:16:05]:
I mean, I think that there's so many different ways that I can look at it, but one of the biggest ones is your relationship with the host. So a lot of people sleep on that, in my opinion. This is something that I really harp on my clients with, and I actually will get on them a little bit about it because where I see, like, some of the biggest opportunity in podcast guest scene is not necessarily when the podcast airs. That is one part of it. Don't get me wrong. I kind of think there's three parts to podcast guesting. And one of those benefits or three benefits, I should say, to it. And one of those big benefits is, of course, the podcast airs you get in front of new people.
Christina Lenkowski [00:16:43]:
Right? But another big one is that you are having a real genuine conversation with a host. Right? And that host relationship has brought so many opportunities my way and, quite frankly, so much money my way that I always want people to know, like, this is something to not sleep on. Right? This is something to be prepared for because you have now had a real authentic conversation with someone. You guys have really gotten in. You've had questions asked. You know, you've been able to give opinions. So the my point of that being, this isn't just like you're meeting each other at a networking event, just shaking hands and saying what you do. Right? You guys are really getting into it on something that you both care about.
Christina Lenkowski [00:17:26]:
Right? Something that you both kind of naturally gravitate towards. And then the third thing that I always say is a big benefit of podcast guessing is the content that comes out of it. As business owners, we are kind of always in that, like, content struggle. You know what I mean? Always kind of like, alright. I need to have new stuff. I need to be doing this or that, etcetera. And being a guest on podcast is one of I mean, it's like standing at the top of instead of, like, pushing something up a mountain, it's like standing at the top of a mountain and just, like, letting us like, like, like, let's say it's a snowball, letting it roll down. Right? From every podcast episode, you can be creating all kinds of different content for your business.
Christina Lenkowski [00:18:03]:
So there's multiple ways that being on a podcast guest benefits you. But networking wise, I really, really believe that host relationship is kind of the number one thing that you can see from being a guest.
David Hall [00:18:16]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I have found that myself. So how do you recommend that people even find the right podcast to be on?
Christina Lenkowski [00:18:26]:
Great question. There's a couple different ways that I that we really do our research. One is and here's something that all of you can be doing. Like, literally, I'm gonna challenge you to do this in the next forty eight hours after this episode. Ask your audience what podcast they listen to. Okay? I think this is just a really great low hanging fruit way to find out what people are listening to. Right? Now sometimes they're gonna send you podcasts that make no sense. Right? Like, my client you know, people know that I really love true crime.
Christina Lenkowski [00:18:55]:
Okay? So, like, I get sent a lot of true crime podcasts when I ask this. But, like, if I'm suddenly pitching clients to a true crime podcast, things have gone horribly awry. Okay? So, like, that's not necessarily what makes sense in that way, but I will always get ideas on shows that I've never heard of before. Right? Or someone may even send their own show in that. Right? And it might be something that I haven't seen before. So that's a really good good place to start. But other than that, go into Apple Podcasts and just put in a keyword. Right? Or put in something they also have search by categories.
Christina Lenkowski [00:19:28]:
You can just go and start looking that way. I also like to one thing that I really teach when I'm teaching on how to find shows is think about someone that has a similar audience to you. Okay? So a similar audience to you. They could be a competitor or it could be someone that's more just like you have complimentary services. Right? But you have the same audience. Drop their name into Spotify. Drop their name into apple Apple Podcasts. See what shows they've been on.
Christina Lenkowski [00:19:54]:
That's a really good place for you to start searching for shows because you can also scroll down to the you might also like or the people that listen to this listen to and find some shows that are gonna be the right fit. The key to all this and what I'm saying, though, is get in front of people that are looking to hire you. Get in front of people that are looking to spend money with you. I think people get way too caught up in wanting to be with their peers or being on shows that's just full of their peers. And I'm not saying that that's wrong, but I'm saying if you're doing this to make money, which is how we're usually using podcasts, then you need to be getting in front of your ideal clients.
David Hall [00:20:34]:
Yeah. And so then how do people pitch to be on a show? What are some good things to do? Maybe what are some things not to do?
Christina Lenkowski [00:20:44]:
I can definitely give some thoughts, but I bet, David, you're gonna have some insight into this too as someone that receives a lot of pitches. But, really, I think what it comes down to is research. You know, people, when they hear what I do, they're like like, you know, it's almost like a winemaker. Like, people are like, oh, that's so that sounds so awesome. You know, whatever. And I'm like, I mean, honestly, I'm just, like, researching most of the day. You know what I mean? Because that's really what it is and listening to podcasts and, you know, sending our pitches. But the difference between getting a yes and getting a no a lot of times comes down to making sure you have the topics that make sense for their audience.
Christina Lenkowski [00:21:19]:
It's stuff that they haven't really talked about before. And then also like I said personalizing it making it so that that host actually knows that you have been paying attention to the show that you're you understand who their audience is and you can bring value to that audience. A lot of people do and, David, I know you can attest to this. They do what we call the spray and pray method to pitching, which is they just write a pitch, and it probably isn't even that good of a pitch. They find a list of hosts, and they just send it out to a bunch and kinda cross their fingers. And that that is not the way that we pitch here or at my agency, but, also, that's just not it's not gonna get you on usually the quality of shows that you're wanting to be getting on.
David Hall [00:22:04]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And I I get many pitches, and I'll tell you what. If they have don't even mention the show, what's it about? It makes it really difficult. Yeah. Even the ones that are good yeah. I I appreciate the topics.
David Hall [00:22:21]:
Mhmm. Or, you know, a little flattery goes a long way, like, a %
Christina Lenkowski [00:22:25]:
episode. You know?
David Hall [00:22:27]:
And it's just really expressing why. Because if I don't get that, then it is gonna be a lot of work to kind of vet and and see, is this someone I wanna have? So save that person the work. Tell them what you wanna talk about and, you know, why why they you want they want to be on your show will go a long way, and you'll get a lot more yeses that way.
Christina Lenkowski [00:22:49]:
I love that you just said that, David. Like, I can't even tell you how much I love that you just said that, because that is so true. And the it goes back to those journalism day. My journalism days at Oregon State University of make it as easy to get to the yes as possible. And that is our philosophy here as well. It's like you you as the guest need to be doing the heavy lifting. Sometimes there's a mindset shift that has to happen where people are like, well, they should they should be they'd be lucky to have me on their show. No.
Christina Lenkowski [00:23:21]:
Okay? Like, no. You they like, I wanna put it this way. A podcast host and for any of you that have your own podcast, you know this. Having a podcast is a lot of work. There is a lot of work that goes into putting on a podcast. Weekly, you know, even if you're doing a biweekly, I don't care. A lot of stuff that's going into that, editing, promoting it, getting out on the channels, etcetera. You as a guest, we you have the easy part.
Christina Lenkowski [00:23:48]:
Okay? That doesn't mean that, again, you're not prepping. That doesn't mean you're just showing up without any thoughts. But what I am saying is you show up, you drop your knowledge, and then, of course, I want you to be promoting it when it goes live, and the host also wants you to be promoting it when it goes live. But they are really doing the bulk of the work there. So you need to be making it as easy as possible on your end so that they can show up, have a great interview, take all the information that you've given them, and make it as easy on their end as possible. So that's why I really love that you said that because I think I think sometimes people think that they are making it easier for a host if they have, like, a really broad topic. Right? Like, if they're like, hey. I would love to come, and I can talk about marketing, branding, sales.
Christina Lenkowski [00:24:36]:
Right? And they just kinda bullet out a couple things that they're an expert in. But at that point, the host would then have to figure out what exact topics you guys are talking about. If you come with those exact topics, which, by the way, they can give opinion on, you can shift them. Right? But you're giving those ideas there. It's, again, going to make that host much more likely to give you a yes.
David Hall [00:24:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. And just one more personal example. So this show, a lot of you know, we talk about the strengths and needs of introverts. We bust myths. We talk about strategies for success. So what I have to be really careful on and, you know, we don't always talk about introversion, extroversion. Sometimes people have a great way you know, strategy for success, and it can apply to everybody.
David Hall [00:25:23]:
But what I I don't want is I don't want someone to come on that has a misunderstanding of introversion and is spreading those myths I'm working so hard to bust. So Mhmm. You know, the more you can show how you align with their show, the better.
Christina Lenkowski [00:25:39]:
Exactly. For someone pitching you, that's something they're gonna need to make very clear. Right? It's like, hey. I understand that this show is geared toward introverts. Either I myself are an introvert or I work with a lot of introverts, and here's what I've learned. You know what I mean? Over time, if someone doesn't even bring up the word introvert when they're pitching your show, that's gonna be an immediate red flag for you of, like, they don't actually know what this show is about. Right? Or we hear from hosts sometimes, like, maybe it's, like, literally of, like, women in business, you know, show, and they'll be like, people pitching men to them all the time. You know what I mean? And not even really mentioning anything about that.
Christina Lenkowski [00:26:16]:
And so that's what that's exactly what Dave was saying is so true is, like, just make sure you are acknowledging, like, hey. I know who your audience is, and here's why I think that would make sense for me to come and be on your show.
David Hall [00:26:28]:
Yeah. We've talked a little bit about this, but maybe let's expand a little bit more. Someone that is thinking, that's listening that, hey. You know what? I really should be on podcast. I have something to share, but I'm nervous. I don't think I can do it. I'm anxious. What's what's your techniques for that?
Christina Lenkowski [00:26:47]:
First of all, everyone like, I think that is a very common no matter what feeling when you're first getting started. Like, we spoke about the the when you're first getting started, it's gonna be a little more you know, you're gonna be a little more anxious and stressed about it than, you know, when you get a little bit further down the road. But the ways that I would say to kind of best think about that is always go into it with a mindset of service over self promotion. Right? I am not going on shows to just talk about how great I am. Right? No one wants to no one wants to listen into a show over 30 and I've heard shows like that. It is not fun when you just have someone come on and they're just talking about themselves the whole time, you know, not really giving a lot of value, etcetera. You are going in there to provide that value. And at the end, of course, you're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, where people can find out more from you, if it, you know, makes sense to talk about what service you offer, etcetera.
Christina Lenkowski [00:27:40]:
But, really, you're getting into that value positioning there. So I think that mindset's really, really important. The other thing is prepare. Listen to a couple episodes of the show before you hop on to do the recording. And then just like you said, get started and know that, like, the first couple, like we talked about, they're not gonna be your favorite, you know, that maybe you're ever on, but they are necessary to get going. I actually have I'm looking at it right now right in front of me at my desk at home. I have a key chain, and it says, don't be afraid to suck at something new. Okay? And so I really, really think that that is such a great, like, mindset to have when you're feeling anxious.
Christina Lenkowski [00:28:22]:
It's like, I just gotta do it. And you know what? For all of y'all that started your own businesses, you did that. You've already done that. Right? And if if you're a parent like I am, that was sucking at something new also when that came out, you know, when when my child came out, you know, etcetera. All kinds of different thing because I just didn't know what to do. But then that muscle kicked in, and, obviously, we're ten years in now. So it, obviously, it looks a little different. But I just mean, if we didn't have the courage to be doing those things, we would never get started with anything new in our life.
Christina Lenkowski [00:28:56]:
Right? So just kinda know that we gotta get through that bumpy period, and then it's gonna feel a lot better.
David Hall [00:29:03]:
Yeah. And, you know, I just tell people you have something important to share. Remind yourself of that. You know? You have you have an expertise Yeah. That somebody needs to hear. So that also seems to help.
Christina Lenkowski [00:29:18]:
So true. And knowing that people like to hear they can even hear similar things from different people and feel different ways about it. Right? So one thing I mentioned when we were talking about how to find shows is I'm like, hey. Let's say one of your competitors was on a show, let's say, a year ago or something like that, and you're like, hey. They were already on it, so I can't pitch that show. No. No. You can absolutely be pitching that show.
Christina Lenkowski [00:29:43]:
I wouldn't pitch them if it was, like, they were just on it, like, a month ago. You know what I mean? But if it was something like a year ago, you know, maybe even nine months ago, something like that, what I would actually do and what we do is point that out. When you're pitching, just say, hey. I know you had so and so on to talk about podcast guesting, for instance. I loved what you guys had to say about x y z. Now what I would love to do is come on and take your audience to the next level. Right? There are people are gonna hear from that person, and they're also gonna hear from you, or they're only gonna hear hear from one or the other. But people really relate to certain people more than they relate to others.
Christina Lenkowski [00:30:22]:
Right? And I know that with my introverts who are big connectors, who are deep thinkers, like you were saying, there are gonna be some people that are gonna naturally align with that more than maybe someone that is a more natural extrovert and vice versa. Right? So don't ever think that, again, just because someone was already on a show or someone's already talked about a certain thing on a show, that you don't have an opportunity there because people, again, will gravitate towards who they kind of naturally gravitate towards.
David Hall [00:30:52]:
Yeah. Okay. So you've gotten over your fear. You're on the show. What what's some advice for people to learn to connect and engage with the audience on the podcast?
Christina Lenkowski [00:31:03]:
Always stories. So always think about what stories you wanna be telling. And I'm not talking, like, give us your life history or, you know, tell us a ten minute story or anything like that. But I do think it's great to have client examples, for instance, case study examples. Those are really the things that people love to hear, and those are the things that they really remember. I was just on a podcast last week, and we were talking about, the power of vulnerability, right, on podcasts and being really authentic and having these real conversations. Right? And I was able to give examples of a couple different clients and literally what we've seen when they've opened up and been more vulnerable and what that's looked like in their life, in their business, etcetera. That is the type of stuff that people really remember.
Christina Lenkowski [00:31:50]:
They remember the stories. They remember either the things that happened in your life or when you're telling a client story, etcetera. They really, really relate to that. So I would kind of have almost like a story bank. I've heard that term before, which I think is good so that you are prepared with kind of those different examples there.
David Hall [00:32:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. We're built on stories, human beings. We that's what we learn from. And, I mean, people can talk about theory, and it's not gonna relate as much as if you have some examples of how you applied that theory.
Christina Lenkowski [00:32:21]:
Exactly.
David Hall [00:32:21]:
And, yeah, I I think that's a good idea. I know in my preparation as an introvert, I'm not gonna I'm not ever gonna script something like, you know, podcast or as public speech, but I am gonna think ahead of time. Okay. Who's my audience? What's some good stories that I have that I wanna share? And, you know, just as I as I'm preparing, I let that roll around in my head, you know, in advance of the podcast or speech. Mhmm.
Christina Lenkowski [00:32:49]:
And I
David Hall [00:32:49]:
just those kinds of stories come to me, and, you know, I need to capture that and think, yeah. This is a good story in in for this particular thing.
Christina Lenkowski [00:32:57]:
Absolutely. I mean, just to give an example of yesterday when I started to prepare for this podcast, that's exactly what I did. I started thinking about, what are some of my introverted clients? Like, what does that kind of look like for them, and what are the things that they've told me about doing this work? Right? So that I am prepared as much as possible, you know, with those examples. Again, I'm not I didn't even I didn't write stuff down. I didn't, like, do anything like that, but just having it in my head of, like, knowing I've already thought about this a little bit so that I am prepared for if and when those questions come.
David Hall [00:33:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. And maybe some people don't need to write stuff down. But if you do, write it down.
Christina Lenkowski [00:33:33]:
That's fine. I mean, I write stuff down all day. So don't don't get me wrong, you guys. Yeah. But in that instance, I I I was ready with, like, what those examples would be, but you gotta do what works for you. Right? I mean, you gotta do what what makes the most sense for you.
David Hall [00:33:48]:
So related to podcast guesting, you know, there might also be opportunities for speaking or or media appearances. How does all this that we're talking about apply to that?
Christina Lenkowski [00:34:00]:
I mean, I think that the the more podcast guesting is a great place to start for doing more public speaking and these other types of of opportunities. And kind of the reason we've we've said is, like, getting that muscle of being really comfortable talking about your message, talking about these other things in front of other people. Right? So even if you're having a one on one conversation in a podcast setting or recording, that's still going out to a lot of people. Right? Other people are gonna be listening in on that conversation whenever it airs. Right? So it's getting you kind of mentally ready for the knowledge of, like, other people have now heard me. Right? This isn't like my the no one's ever heard me before or heard me speak or anything like that, but getting ready for those public speaking opportunities. And one thing that I am a big, big fan of, because we do public speaking pitching for our some of our clients as well, is I love showing up where people have opted in to hear from me. Okay? And I think that this is something that really resonates, like, across, especially entrepreneurs, right, where someone is literally hitting play on a podcast episode to hear me.
Christina Lenkowski [00:35:07]:
Right? Someone is going to an event, and they're gonna hear me at that event. What I mean by that is it's not just them scrolling socials and just hearing my voice, right, or happening to stumble across something. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way, but I just mean that, like, that means these audiences are bought in. Right? They are wanting to hear what it is that, you know, we are saying or we are going to talk about, etcetera. And having do having done the podcast work is going to prepare you even further for that those stages, that public speaking work, etcetera, and to feel more comfortable. We actually have a client of ours, Crystal Lynn, who's an amazing bookkeeper. And, she was telling me when we work with our clients over a year, we get them booked on 24 podcasts over a year. Okay? And so that's a lot of podcasts to have been on over a year and get really comfortable.
Christina Lenkowski [00:35:56]:
You know, you you you definitely feel different or she felt very different from episode one and two to episode, you know, 24. Right? Feeling much more comfortable in what she's saying, etcetera. But she was telling me how she then was just, like, at a local networking event or something like that, and they unexpectedly called her up to the stage to introduce herself. Right? But she was like, I was ready. Like, I was ready to go. I wasn't stressed. I wasn't anything. Like, I've been on all these podcasts.
Christina Lenkowski [00:36:24]:
I feel extremely comfortable now talking about what it is I do, who I do it for, etcetera. So even just that repetition had made it so that when that kind of public speaking opportunity, even though it was a little unexpected came up, she was ready and prepared to do that. Yeah.
David Hall [00:36:40]:
And back on the introvert extrovert differences, we talked about preparation, and this is the same for public speaking. Mhmm. And, you know, as I get to know you better, we we do differ in the way that we might prepare. Mhmm. And I just need to understand that's fine. That's good. Yeah. I I I can't be jealous that Christina is able to be more spontaneous than me.
David Hall [00:37:03]:
I just have to figure out what do I need to do
Christina Lenkowski [00:37:06]:
and Exactly.
David Hall [00:37:07]:
And not not compare myself to other people.
Christina Lenkowski [00:37:10]:
Mhmm. Not compare yourself because, I mean, what is that saying? Comparison is a thief of joy. Absolutely.
David Hall [00:37:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Christina Lenkowski [00:37:15]:
You know, we are who we are. And now it's also just figuring out how do we make the best of those skills that we all have, those strengths that we have, and what's gonna work for us.
David Hall [00:37:26]:
And the other thing I don't think we talked about, but the other difference is I need to figure out how to manage my energy. Like, you know, maybe I'm enjoying giving a speech because I do. I, you know, I love it. But I it might be draining to me even if I enjoyed it, and I might need a break afterward. And I just might need to plan that in. I often talk about with the podcast, I am loving this conversation with you, but I have a hour after where I'm not doing anything.
Christina Lenkowski [00:37:53]:
I love that. I love that. I love that. Whereas I'm like, okay. As soon as this is done, go get your coffee because you gotta finish a mill do do do do do. You know what I mean? Because this will actually energize me. Right? Like, having a conversation with someone because, usually, I'm just sitting at home by myself. Right? I'm kinda doing my thing.
Christina Lenkowski [00:38:08]:
But this will be really good. But on the flip side of that, I am that way after events. So, like, I was just at that's, like, a lot of extroverted. Like, that's a that's a lot because my energy is so high during events, and it, like, is nonstop. I was just at podcast movement podcast one of the podcast movement events in Chicago last week. And the day after I got back home, I I will try to build in a day actually after an event at the location where I can just decompress. Like, literally just, like, watch TV, get room service, and, like, not do anything because I need that decompression time. Because the second I get back home, I'm right back into, you know, being a wife and a mother and being a business owner and x y z.
Christina Lenkowski [00:38:53]:
Right? So I am so with you. Like, knowing what you need for that decompression time is so important as well. Whatever that looks like, whether it's to your point building an hour in after a podcast interview, or for me, it's like building a day in after I go to an event, whatever that looks like, but knowing that, like, it's okay to have that kind of rest time to get back up to you know, you know it's like that pull back to fly forward or whatever that stuff is. You kinda know that you need that, you know, to to manage your energy.
David Hall [00:39:27]:
Yeah. And then is finding opportunities for public speaking different than finding a podcast?
Christina Lenkowski [00:39:35]:
Yes. They are different. The public speaking opportunities, they're a lot more limited, right, in the sense that with podcasts, there's well, it's actually when I was at the event I was at last week, I learned that there's, I wanna say, like, 700,000 active podcasts. Okay? Like, on Apple Podcasts or something like that. Everyone always likes to throw these stats out of there's millions and millions of podcasts. There are millions of podcasts, but a lot of them are inactive. Okay? So let's say there's about 750 k that are active. That's still a huge amount of opportunities.
Christina Lenkowski [00:40:12]:
Of course, that's across all different kinds of genres. That's across all different kinds of things. But the point of that being, even if whatever you're doing you know, you're there's gonna be hundreds, if not thousands of shows, right, in whatever particular niche that you're doing. So you get a no from shows, which, by the way, you will get a no from shows. Okay? I so be prepared. No. Just know that that's gonna happen. Whereas with public speaking opportunities, there's not 750,000 speaking opportunities.
Christina Lenkowski [00:40:39]:
Right? So it just is a bit more limited. It also is something where you do have the opportunity to be getting paid. So with podcasts, you're not gonna get paid to be a guest on a podcast, at least not really that we've ever dealt with or anything like that. And you're certainly never gonna pay to be a guest on a podcast. I will go off on that if you give me the opportunity, David. But I will tell
David Hall [00:41:00]:
you right
Christina Lenkowski [00:41:01]:
now, that is not what's happening. Okay?
David Hall [00:41:03]:
Right. Right.
Christina Lenkowski [00:41:03]:
So with like, when we're pitching our clients to public speaking opportunities, we are trying to find opportunities. This doesn't always happen, but where there is a payment involved. Right? You are getting paid for your time because people are paying to be a part of that event. Right? Whereas with podcasts, people aren't there's no money being exchanged. Like, y'all that are listening to this podcast didn't pay to listen to this podcast. Right? So it just means that there's kind of a different level of application involved typically there. We're having to submit maybe even outlines, maybe even slides, you know, kind of a different level of stuff than we are when we're pitching our clients to podcasts.
David Hall [00:41:43]:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Christina Lenkowski [00:41:45]:
But that but to be clear, though, there is still a lot of great opportunity in public speaking. And, I mean, when you talk about, like, getting in great leads to your business, I do still believe that speaking on stages is one of the highest converters for that. Absolutely.
David Hall [00:42:00]:
Yeah. Wow. We've had a great conversation. Time's gone by fast. Is there anything else you wanna add today, Christina?
Christina Lenkowski [00:42:08]:
I think the one thing I'd love to add is just you can do this. I know that there's gonna be people listening, and this happens on every podcast I'm in, where they are like, this is this sounds great. I'm never gonna do that. Right? Like, they're like, that is just I can't ever imagine doing this, you know, etcetera. And we've talked about it a bit, but it is really just a matter of getting started. A question that I really like to ask people is, what do you think is the worst thing that's gonna happen? Like, what do you what do you think is the worst thing that's gonna happen from putting yourself out there and doing this? And for a lot of people, it's they say the wrong thing. Right? They stumble over their words. People think that they don't know what they're talking about.
Christina Lenkowski [00:42:43]:
Right? Etcetera. We've kind of already busted those myths a bit during this episode, but I am here to tell you that I truly believe the worst thing that can happen is you don't put yourself out there and out in front of new audiences because our businesses will not grow. If we are not getting in front of new audiences regularly, we're not seeing that growth. No stages equals no growth. That's a big saying that we have at our company. You gotta be getting out there. And podcasts are stages. I consider podcasts a stage as well.
Christina Lenkowski [00:43:13]:
Right? A platform for you to get on. So please know that this is something you can do. You can do it yourself. You can hire someone to do it for you. There's all kinds of different ways to do it. But so many business owners and entrepreneurs sleep on publicity and getting out in front of their audience through leveraged ways. And so I wanna make sure that no one listening today falls into that same trap, and you're getting out there and and doing the damn thing.
David Hall [00:43:39]:
That's right. That's right. So, of course, how could people find out more about you and the great work you do?
Christina Lenkowski [00:43:44]:
Yes. I would love to have folks go to publicitybychristina.com backslash booked. And I thought I was being really clever, and so it's publicityxchristina.com. When I first started my business, I was like, oh, look at you. Like, South by Southwest, like, so trendy. And now it's the bane of my existence, but that is what it is. So publicity bychristina backslash book. I have free download there.
Christina Lenkowski [00:44:07]:
You can connect with me in different ways there. You can also find me on Instagram at publicity x Christina, and I'm always chatting about my adventure and my business and all that type of stuff over there.
David Hall [00:44:18]:
Alright. Well, thanks again, Christina. This has been a wonderful conversation.
Christina Lenkowski [00:44:22]:
Thank you, David. I really, really appreciate it, and I love the conversation and getting the opposing viewpoints. It's awesome.
David Hall [00:44:28]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website, which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more.
David Hall [00:45:05]:
Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert, and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs, and be strong.