Ep 228 - Personal and Professional Growth as an Introvert with guest Caspar Mahoney

Have you ever wondered how understanding your introversion can unlock both personal and professional growth? In this episode, host David Hall sits down with coach Caspar Mahoney for an insightful conversation about embracing introversion and transforming it into a source of strength.

Caspar shares his unique journey from being homeschooled in rural Cornwall to navigating the challenges of shyness, social anxiety, and a later realization of his introverted nature. Listeners will learn about the difference between introversion and shyness, how to overcome limiting beliefs, and why self-awareness is a key to thriving as an introvert. The discussion covers valuable tools and strategies for boosting confidence, managing energy, mastering public speaking, and using mindfulness to enhance everyday life.

Whether you're an introvert looking for ways to better understand yourself, or you want actionable techniques for coaching or leading introverts, this episode offers rich insights and encouragement. You'll also hear myths about introversion busted, including the idea that introverts can't be confident or dynamic speakers.

Tune in to discover practical advice, inspiring personal stories, and fresh perspectives that will help you embrace who you are, accomplish your goals, and be strong.

Episode LInk: QuietandStrong.com/228

Caspar Mahoney was brought up homeschooled, on a remote smallholding. He wasn’t given much social exposure until later in life and found himself to have intense social anxiety, shyness, lack of confidence - in particular around public speaking. He would get hung up on what others thought of him, and was too shy and too proudly independent to ask for help and support. Over time he got over these things through a mixture of trial and error, reading, and coaching. He’s now a coach for introverted men, a triathlete, a 25yr experienced martial artist, and a very confident public speaker.

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Transcript

Caspar Mahoney [00:00:00]:
A super socially confident introvert. You can be a super gregarious, not shy introvert. You can be a fabulous public speaker. And there are many examples of awesome public speakers that are introverted. And the reason for that is you. None of those are. All of those things are treatable in one way or another if you have those struggles with those things. Public speaking in particular is a skill and you can learn the skill whether you're introvert or extrovert.

Caspar Mahoney [00:00:32]:
And introverts can learn that skill very, very well indeed and really be very, very strong in it. So I think, I think, you know, those are definitely, for me, myths that are carried around the world a lot by a lot of people, and not least of which in introverts. And that's a real problem because it holds back a lot of introverts who've got capable of so much more and could offer so much more if they didn't feel stuck in that limited belief world of being socially anxious and shy.

David Hall [00:01:09]:
Hello and welcome to episode 228 of the Quiet Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David hall, The creator of Quietestronk.com this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or rating that would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Casper Mahoney was brought up homeschooled on a remote small holding. He wasn't given much social exposure until much later in life and found himself to have intense social anxiety, shyness, lack of confidence in particular around public speaking.

David Hall [00:02:03]:
He would get hung up on what others thought of him and was too shy and too proudly independent to ask for help and support. Over time he got over these things through a mixture of trial and error, reading and coaching. He's now a coach for introverted men, a triathlete, a 25 year experience martial artist and a very confident public speaker. All right, well, welcome to the Kawaii and Strong podcast. Casper, it's so good to have you.

Caspar Mahoney [00:02:32]:
On today and a pleasure to be here. David, thank you very much for inviting me. I'm delighted to be speaking to you and your audience and making another connection with more than one introvert in a day and talking about a common thread to us.

David Hall [00:02:48]:
Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to get into the coaching work you do, especially with introverted men. But let's just start with your story. Tell us about your journey to what you're doing now.

Caspar Mahoney [00:03:00]:
Yeah, I guess I'm a bit of a weirdo in my background. I serve a light heart and I had a lot of pleasure and joy in my upbringing, but it was quite unusual and my route was a little bit circuitous. I was brought up in rural Cornwall, which is in the far southwest corner of England, for those that don't know it. Pretty isolated, pretty secluded, beautiful place. Quite a lowly populated place, and an unusual place to be brought up. And what was even more unusual was my parents, who were hippies, decided to home educate myself and my brother and sister. So we were not only in an isolated place, but brought up in quite an isolated kind of environment. On top of that, I guess gave me a pretty unique and unusual perspective on things.

Caspar Mahoney [00:03:52]:
And I guess, you know, we're going to talk a bit about coaching and introversion today, I think. And one of the things that I now recollect, and I recall these things differently every year as I learn more about myself, was when I was about 10, I was invited by the girl next door, as we all like to be, as all us young men like to be invited by the girl next door to the school disco. And I went along and I just have this memory of getting to this place where there was lights flashing at the windows, blaring noise coming out of this building, booming music and these kids streaming in. And I just remember turning to my mum and being like, no, just take me home, take me home. This is too much. And. And just that memory of shyness really stands out for me alongside these others that I now look back at with this kind of lens of introversion on them. And after that I have lots of experiences and recollections of pretty profound moments of social anxiety.

Caspar Mahoney [00:05:01]:
I was probably borderline agoraphobic when I was at college. I had a mortal fear of going into a canteen, just a place where people were sat down to eat. I couldn't go in there. And much as my friends and pals would go in there. And I had a few of those, amazingly enough, after a few months of being in college. And there's these little memories, the patches that then I remember carrying through with me into my university and work and my education and career. And my career in education went pretty well and I gradually made progress through management levels and academic qualifications. But I carried a lot of challenges and hurdles that I really struggled to grapple with, went through lots and lots of different career hops across, working in the government sector, working in the tech sector, in private enterprise, as a consultant, working on project management.

Caspar Mahoney [00:06:01]:
Ultimately I became more and more technically adept and took on a product management role in software development, managing quite a big team. But I always had these hurdles that I was constantly trying to tackle, which I ultimately came to realize very late in the day, when I was in, late in my 30s, were things that were probably related to my introversion. And it was through a kind of a fortunate bit of luck that I discovered this kind of introverted characteristic that I wasn't really aware of, which helped me to look back on things, see the hurdles I had, and see that there were lots of things that were very common to other introverts and things that I felt I could help people with, which brought me to a place that I think I was always doing a little bit as a manager, which was coaching people through those things and coaching people through their own individual challenges, be they introverts or extroverts. But I've latterly focused on introverts.

David Hall [00:07:00]:
Yeah. So you were shy and socially anxious. You know, you were homeschooled until I think you told me 16.

Caspar Mahoney [00:07:08]:
That's right. So we caught up a few weeks ago, David, and went into that in a little bit of detail. But, yeah, it was pretty late in life. I was, I was just starting out the qualifications, timing in. In. In the uk and so I was a little bit later on in, in my teenage years when I first started actually spending time with any quantity of people at all. You know, most people exposed to a classroom right, when they're what, three, four, five years old? For me, that was 16, 17, when I really got immersed in that kind of environment and started to see the agoraphobic thing that I hadn't. I wasn't even aware that.

Caspar Mahoney [00:07:49]:
I wouldn't have known to call it that at the time. I wouldn't have even known that I was socially anxious. I just knew I had a problem and was terrified of certain things and didn't know why. Didn't know why.

David Hall [00:08:00]:
Yeah. So it sounds like you, you know, you achieved some success, but was there a moment that's just like, I need to make some changes around understanding my introversion and my social anxiety?

Caspar Mahoney [00:08:15]:
Great, great question. I. I think there wasn't. There wasn't. Like, like, I think with these things it's easy to kind of crystallize on a narrative that kind of. You reflect on and kind of Go that, that was the moment, I think. And there was maybe one or two of those. I, I genuinely feel people take almost a more evolutionary complex kind of gradual development to their personality and, and their, their kind of trajectory is a little bit more complex.

Caspar Mahoney [00:08:48]:
There was something that happened a few years ago which I think was particularly important, which was I applied for a role and got knocked back from it. I applied for a job I really thought was the right natural next step in my career. This is about three years ago now. And I got knocked back. I got to like the second stage of interview, got knocked back and thought. And it kind of really rocked my understanding of my career. Where I was, where I was destined, as I assumed before that in my leadership journey. I was like, right, that's, that's where I'm going next.

Caspar Mahoney [00:09:22]:
That's where I'm going to end up is somewhere like that. Suddenly you get knocked back and you go, oh, okay. So if I'm not destined for that and if it's not going to be a plain sailing kind of thing as I thought it was going to be, what's going on there and why. And why have I hit this kind of blocker, this challenge? And I was very lucky that that coincided with my employer getting me some coaching. And so I got some leadership coaching at the time. Not only did I get that, but I also got quite a lot of psychometric tests done. And they, they weren't mbti, which Myers Briggs, which you and I know are very familiar with, David. They were a mixture of what's called Firob and the Big five personality.

David Hall [00:10:14]:
Yeah, I'm familiar with those across those.

Caspar Mahoney [00:10:18]:
Which are both give you a different lens on a similar thing in a way. And I did those tests and they brought me out as having. One of the things Fire Beat does is it looks at your expressed desire for something. The, the extent to which you publicize and talk about your desire for something and act upon it to in front of other people versus your, your true level of want of that thing. And those things are not the same. And I came out with a particularly unusual score which was very, very low desire for inclusion, which is one of the characteristics Fire B assesses and a very low expressed exclusion. And typically what that means is you're both strongly introverted and you are strongly independent minded. And the thing that really shook me with that piece and the coaching that I got at the same time, which was asking me some very difficult questions to confront my own limiting beliefs.

Caspar Mahoney [00:11:20]:
The thing that really rocked me there was I had assumed until that point I was an extrovert. I assumed until that point I was an extrovert. Not only I had assumed, but I had done a Myers Briggs 10 years prior, which brought me out just on the cusp of extroversion as an entj. And I think, David, I'm right in saying you are an intj, correct?

David Hall [00:11:43]:
Yes.

Caspar Mahoney [00:11:44]:
And so am I, as it turns out.

David Hall [00:11:47]:
Okay.

Caspar Mahoney [00:11:48]:
In common here and intj. And you know a lot about it, David. I think around what this characteristic means, but it's quite an unusual personality type, very distinct set of characteristics. And not what I thought I was, which was this really like, I thought I should be this really outgoing, kind of super sociable person. And that was my norm, my healthy behavior was to be there all the time, which is extroversion. Right. And turned out I wasn't. And the coaching too was asking me some difficult questions that were causing me to think, okay, there's more, there's more to what I thought I was about that I realized there's a self awareness journey, a massive crack in self awareness, which maybe look at all these things I've experienced in the past with this new lens of.

Caspar Mahoney [00:12:34]:
Introversion was sitting behind this social anxiety. Introversion was sitting behind this public speaking terror that I had. Introversion was sitting behind a lot of these things that I'd experienced. And I didn't know that till that point, which is literally like in my late 30s, about three, four years ago now.

David Hall [00:12:55]:
Yeah. So what was it earlier that you thought, oh, I'm an extrovert. What, what did, what was your understanding of it and why did you think that?

Caspar Mahoney [00:13:05]:
Partly I think it was desire. You know, I think a lot of people do this when they're filling in those surveys is if they're not careful, they can almost answer in a way that they want to be rather than.

David Hall [00:13:18]:
Yes, yes.

Caspar Mahoney [00:13:19]:
And I think when I had done Myers Briggs in my late 20s, early 30s, I think I scored myself in a way because I thought those are the answers I want.

David Hall [00:13:30]:
Yes, right. This is how I want to be or want to appear.

Caspar Mahoney [00:13:34]:
Oh, yeah, exactly. And, and if you answer them well enough, it kind of points to entj. An ENTJ isn't kind of like commander, kind of leader of military or political kind of formations or organizations, something I had long really desired, particularly as a, as a young man. I really thought I was going to become a kind of political leader or something. And I then worked very closely with politicians for a long time and decided I totally hated that idea. I think it Was me trying to miss, trying to game. The survey was what was really happening. And then it.

Caspar Mahoney [00:14:23]:
And in reflection, it. It wasn't actually, you know, that the NTJ was reflective of me.

David Hall [00:14:30]:
Yeah.

Caspar Mahoney [00:14:31]:
It was not the ebay.

David Hall [00:14:34]:
Yeah. So how did you finally say, okay, I am an introvert, and then how did you embrace it? Like, it's a good thing.

Caspar Mahoney [00:14:44]:
You know what? I just found it so empowering to be able to know. It's. It's almost like knowing that something's not wrong with you. There's just a. There's just a characteristic that you need to know how to manage. I think if you get like an extroverted finding, you're kind of like, fine, there's nothing there. You get an introvert finding, you can like, okay, now you look back at all these things that are happening in my past. Okay, now I kind of understand some of these things.

Caspar Mahoney [00:15:15]:
Like, why did I struggle when I was going through all these periods with things like eye contact? Like, I found eye contact really uncomfortable. Why did I struggle with, you know, sustaining energy and engagement at social gatherings? And what did I feel the need for rest afterwards? If you don't know about this introvert background, some of the characteristics of introversion that are really important, I don't think you understand what's happening and why it's happening, and that makes it much harder to deal with. So knowing that I'm introverted and looking back at that past, it just explains so much more of it than. Than I had known I had the challenges. I had known I had to tackle the challenges, but I didn't know why I had them and what the causes were and what were what were just limiting beliefs I had to tackle versus things that were related to kind of like some of these. These fundamentals.

David Hall [00:16:15]:
Yeah. And I mean, part of who we are as introverts is we are deep thinkers. And it means that, you know, often we're gonna. We're gonna think before we speak. You know, we need time to process. We need to prepare for things. And if you don't understand all of that, you can be shy, you can be socially anxious. I will say that I overcame those things by understanding my introversion.

David Hall [00:16:41]:
Now, it can be more complicated than. There can be many causes of shyness, social anxiety. But for me, it was understanding. Oh, I think before I speak, I'm not going to talk as much as my extroverted friend over here. It's a strength that I have. And, you know, us deep thinkers, you know, with the intj, it's also Referred to as the Mastermind. So how does that title fit you?

Caspar Mahoney [00:17:07]:
Well, I mean, it's not Commander, but it'll do.

David Hall [00:17:12]:
Yeah, yeah.

Caspar Mahoney [00:17:15]:
My. I'll tell you a funny, funny story. I, I discovered quite recently as, as I got, I've become. So I spent a lot of my time talking to people about introversion, extroversion now. And so I was recently talking to my sister and her husband who were over on holiday to the UK from, from Italy, and we were talking about introversion, extroversion. And, and neither of them had done an mbti. They had never done Myers Briggs. So I said, why don't you, why don't you give it a shot and see what you come out with? And lo and behold, they both came out as intj.

David Hall [00:17:45]:
Oh, wow. And they had, they struggled with anything or I, I.

Caspar Mahoney [00:17:51]:
My sister is an exceptionally socially confident intj. Yeah. And that's absolutely possible. Oh, yeah, that should stop that.

David Hall [00:18:04]:
Yeah. That's an important point is like, there's introverts that have been confident their whole lives and they know who they are, they know what they need. There's some of us that have to learn how to embrace our introversion. So I always like to make that point because we don't all lack confidence, we don't all have to overcome those kinds of things. So that's a really good example.

Caspar Mahoney [00:18:26]:
Absolutely. And another thing that was really interesting speaking to her is it made me appreciate something that's also hard. If you know someone and you think they may be introverted or extroverted, that's an easy thing to get wrong because somebody can display as shy and socially anxious and you might think that they're introverted, but they're just grappling with those problems and extroverted.

David Hall [00:18:50]:
Yeah, that's the thing. It's like shyness occurs in introverts and extroverts and you don't see what's going on in someone's head. You don't see how they're processing information. There's clues, but you don't see it as much and you can guess wrong. And I know some very outspoken and confident introverts that people say, oh, of course they're extra. I'm like, no, they're a deep thinker. That's their brilliance. Yeah.

Caspar Mahoney [00:19:16]:
I think anyone that met, probably people, actually, a lot of my friends that meet me are surprised when I tell them. Those that don't already know it is surprised when I tell them I'm an introvert. Really? Yeah. But you do public speaking, right? You're you're out there, you're gregarious, you got robbed. What's going on here? And it's the same for my sister. People that know my sister, I don't think would ever guess that she was an introvert. The only way you know, and I didn't even realize that, the only way you know is if you were so close to that person's daily life. She lives in Italy now, so she's a little bit removed from me.

Caspar Mahoney [00:19:49]:
You would observe the behavior, the pattern of needing the rest after the, after the social lift. You would observe that kind of energy maintenance need and you would observe that they like a lot of time just pottering away at their own thing.

David Hall [00:20:07]:
Yeah, that's the thing. Like, yes, we need time to recharge, absolutely. But we need a lot of quiet time for a lot of other things too. You know, in our work, we need some time to focus and time to think, some time to think strategically. So it's. But at the same time, we want to be with people. We want to be with those we care about. We also want to collaborate with those we're working with.

David Hall [00:20:31]:
So, you know, there's, there's some myths that we're busting right now.

Caspar Mahoney [00:20:34]:
Indeed, there are plenty more to bust.

David Hall [00:20:37]:
Yeah. Do you have another myth about introversion you want to bust?

Caspar Mahoney [00:20:41]:
Well, I think, I think, you know, we've, we've talked about social anxiety and shyness and, and touched on public speaking. And I think a lot of people might well assume, and in particular, in particular, this is part of my kind of coaching focus, is a lot of introverts believe that those two things are like, tied at the hip. You, if you're introverted, you are stuck with those problems. You can't get past that anxiety. You can't get past that shyness. That's part of who you are. And we've already kind of said this, I guess today though, but I think you and I would agree that that's not the case.

David Hall [00:21:14]:
Right.

Caspar Mahoney [00:21:15]:
A super socially confident introvert. You can be a super gregarious, not shy introvert. You can be a fabulous public speaker. And there are many examples of awesome public speakers that are introverted. And the reason for that is you. None of those are. All of those things are treatable in one way or another if you have those struggles with those things. Public speaking in particular is a skill.

Caspar Mahoney [00:21:44]:
And you can learn the skill whether you're introvert or extrovert. And introverts can learn that skill very, very well indeed and really be very Very strong in it. So I think, I think, you know, those are definitely, for me, myths that are carried around the world a lot by a lot of people, and not least of which in introverts. And that's a real problem because it holds back a lot of introverts who've got capable of so much more and could offer so much more if they didn't feel stuck in that limited belief world of being socially anxious and shy.

David Hall [00:22:15]:
That's our work, Casper. Right. That's our. That's what we're trying to. That's what we're both trying to achieve, is really helping introverts embrace who they are, really have their voices heard, accomplish those things that they want to accomplish. That's what we're all about.

Caspar Mahoney [00:22:29]:
We're on that mission, David. We're going to get there.

David Hall [00:22:32]:
Yeah. So you mentioned public speaking. And again, public speaking can be difficult for introverts or extroverts. But I used to struggle with it. Now I love it. I don't get nervous. And that's not the case for everybody. Some people still get nervous.

David Hall [00:22:48]:
I don't get nervous. But what I learned was, and I had some experiences speaking with an extroverted colleague, and I realized, oh, I prepare differently than she does. She prepares, but she also has element of spontaneity that I don't have. You know, I. I'm going to be a little bit spontaneous, but I'm really going to need to think ahead of time and, you know, just realizing, you know what, you have an important message to share. You aren't perfect, but nobody listening is. And then just also plugging in breaks where I need them. You know, after a speaking event, maybe there is taking some time for yourself, those kinds of things.

David Hall [00:23:33]:
And you know what, what else have you learned about public speaking? What. What were some keys for you?

Caspar Mahoney [00:23:39]:
I mean, I love that I couldn't teach you much, David, by the sounds of it. I think you're. You're there and you touch on some great things. You know, I think, I think a particular thing for true introversion is that. That imperfection piece. I think, yeah, I. I've had training, several types of training in the past, and the one that really cracked it for me as an introvert. I don't know what your experience was, David, where you got to that point where you started to feel much more confident as a speaker, but the bit for me was taking it away from trying to present in really pressured situations into a place where I felt just totally safe to play with it and mess around and get feedback because the purpose of being there was to get feedback and get better at it.

Caspar Mahoney [00:24:24]:
So what I did is I, when I realized I had this problem and I was no longer willing to tolerate it, I had no clue that I was an introvert at this point. The way I handled it is I started attending a public speaking association and I think toastmasters are around the globe. Yeah, association of Public Speakers are a big one in the uk. I honestly would counsel anyone listening that's not confident in public speaking, go and do that. Because the way that worked for me was I was awful at first. I was terrified. I was awful. But you go to enough of those sessions and practice often enough in that kind of space, you will quite quickly get better and you'll know you're getting better because people will give you feedback, which is vital.

Caspar Mahoney [00:25:11]:
You want that feedback to know where you're headed and how you're improving and where you've got to get better. But also just the sense of practicing in that safe place, just practicing in a safe place where it's intended for that purpose. What a lot of people I think try to do is they try to get better at public speaking through practice at work, which will work. But it's hard. It's hard because you don't necessarily feel safe. You feel like you. There's a lot hanging off it. So you don't get that kind of natural comfort.

Caspar Mahoney [00:25:43]:
You just always cling on to that kind of bit of nervousness there. And a bit of nervousness still accompanies me. I think of it now as excitement. I've re badged it. Right. Like excitement, passion and energy.

David Hall [00:25:54]:
Yeah, I like that.

Caspar Mahoney [00:25:55]:
I'm okay with that. One tip that I would give particularly for introverts, but I think applicable to anyone that's got a bit of like bad nervousness that's causing like the, the blood to rush to the face. You know that like the heart rate is, is picking up. One tip I would give is when you're going into a presentation or an important meeting where you know you got to speak in that last bit of time before you're there, last five, ten minutes or half an hour, stop preparing, stop preparing, stop reading. You've got. That's not the time. Because all you'll do is you'll make yourself overly anxious about the content that you're trying to memorize too close to the time. What you need to be worrying when you're that close to presenting about is your state, your physical state.

Caspar Mahoney [00:26:44]:
So what I counsel is breathing control. So think about your breath count. A long breath out and a slightly shorter breath in. So maybe a count to eight out and a count to five in. You do that for 30 seconds, you'll quite quickly send signals to your brain that will bring a much better state of control and calmness. So it kind of almost sends a signal to the brain and body. It's cool, you can chill. There's no fight or flight.

Caspar Mahoney [00:27:12]:
There's no fight, flight or freeze kind of animal brain thing to worry about here. You'll be okay. So I really cancel. That really works for me. I would even do that in the, a little bit in the middle of a presentation if I get a chance. I'll think about the breath. If I feel the breath and the heart tensing up so I feel that physical tension, I'll try to think about the breath. I'll try to physically contact things and think about the connection to, to the body to get better control over the nervous system.

Caspar Mahoney [00:27:42]:
So state, physical state is really important. Really important.

David Hall [00:27:48]:
Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned practice and I think that's an important thing to realize is that we're all, we can continue to get better. And as introverts we, I think we all have a super, a super power of reflection where you can give the speech and you can then, you know what, and, and I always be nice to myself first and say, this went well and maybe I'm going to do this differently next time, that kind of thing.

Caspar Mahoney [00:28:15]:
That's good, that's good. I, and I do the same and, and I think, you know, when I was talking earlier about, you know, self awareness and the importance of that as an introvert and how these kind of tools like Farabee and Big five personality trait and MBTI can help with that. Another good tool for self awareness, particularly in the context of public speaking, is go and get feedback from people. Go and get feedback. And the thing that might surprise you is you might find that people are much more positive in their feedback than you expect. The very first time I got videoed by somebody when I was presenting, when I was absent, sure, I was an awful presenter. The thing that struck me most in the video when I watched it back was I wasn't that bad. I was nowhere near as bad as I thought I was in my own head.

Caspar Mahoney [00:29:06]:
The worst enemy was that, yeah, that's great.

David Hall [00:29:12]:
So when did you decide to be a coach? And then why the focus on introverted men?

Caspar Mahoney [00:29:18]:
Great, great question. So I, so I, when I got to that point of becoming aware that I myself was introverted As I went through this kind of career reflection phase after I got knocked back from a role, I kind of thought, well, if that's not the destiny, what is? What is? And it was at that same time that I was profoundly becoming aware of. Of the impact introversion had had on my career, on my life, on my energy, on my social anxiety, on my public speaking or all these things. How introversion was sitting alongside those things. Not maybe the cause, but something that had an impact on how I managed them and responded to them. And so I thought, okay, there'll be other people that have faced or are facing right now, these very same things, perhaps even worse or very similarly to me, and therefore I should. Maybe I should try to help those. Maybe that's the destiny.

Caspar Mahoney [00:30:21]:
So I thought, and actually it started to ring like a passionate bell of truth in me, like a ding, ding, ding. You. You've always been coaching Casper. Suddenly I was like, oh, yeah, I have, haven't I? I've always been doing that with my friends, with my family. I've been lucky enough to have been given kind of management duties of people in teams since I was in my early mid-20s. And the thing I always loved most was developing people. I was more interested in developing people and better enabling people to achieve their potential than I was almost in the kind of corporate side to things. I was much more interested in that psychology and development of those people and the development of teams and how they could best collaborate than I was in the corporate, kind of, like, climate.

Caspar Mahoney [00:31:12]:
And so I thought, yeah, these things, these things resonate, these things work. And so your question of why introverted men really, and sympathy, really and simply, it's about where I feel I can empathize most deeply and I can bring the most personal experience. So a lot of what I talk about for those that follow me is, yeah, introversion, and it will work and help other introverts, for instance, for instance, introverted women. But when I speak to those people as clients, I know from experience that the way that it works best is if it's people that have gone on a really similar path to me, similar, had similar problems, challenges from maybe a bit of a masculine perspective on things. So it will work. Just that empathy is just so much easier. So. So I.

Caspar Mahoney [00:32:06]:
I know that introverted men will find it a lot easier to share with me their experience, and they will know that I've. I've been through something similar, and I've got a similar mindset, similar hurdles, and there'll be things about a woman's Background that would be harder for me to offer them, like come from a true place of experience. This is the straightforward part to it. So introverted men is where I feel I can be my best experiential self.

David Hall [00:32:34]:
Yeah. So what you're saying that men and women are a little different?

Caspar Mahoney [00:32:39]:
Just a little controversial statement?

David Hall [00:32:43]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing. Like, you know, there are things that understanding introversion is the same, but like you said, you can definitely relate more to the introverted men as, as you know, you've been along a similar pathway and that makes sense. And there are lots of women that focus on women intro. I have many guests on that focus on helping introverted women particularly. So it's good to see there's someone looking out for the men.

Caspar Mahoney [00:33:13]:
See, you're right. And that's another part of it as well. I did do a little research into what kind of help was out there for introverted men right now, and there's really very little and a lot of it is really, really zoned in on dating because I think dating and getting comfortable kind of like with, with building relationships with women is particular pain point for a lot of introverted men, particularly at certain stages of their life. And I thought like, okay, I get that and I could help with that. But I haven't dated for like 10 years. I'm very happily married.

David Hall [00:33:52]:
Yeah, right, right, right.

Caspar Mahoney [00:33:55]:
And I, I thought I can help with these other things maybe that there aren't that many people out there really, really focused on supporting, which, and yeah.

David Hall [00:34:03]:
I, I, I have not dated for much longer and I, I, you know, I could try and help, but I think the general things that I talk about will be helpful. But for this specific dating advice, there are people that do that and I'm grateful for that because that's, that's not going to be me.

Caspar Mahoney [00:34:20]:
Absolutely, absolutely. There's, there's, there's a need and it's being fulfilled.

David Hall [00:34:25]:
Yes.

Caspar Mahoney [00:34:26]:
And then there's a need that isn't being fulfilled.

David Hall [00:34:28]:
Yeah.

Caspar Mahoney [00:34:29]:
The broader introverted men.

David Hall [00:34:32]:
What kind of issues are your clients bringing to you?

Caspar Mahoney [00:34:34]:
I mean, I think, you know, it's, it's very in keeping with some of the things we've already spoken about and particularly the piece that I notice is, and there's a real thing going on right now, globally around this, I think, which is my, my kind of theory, my hypothesis around exhaustion. Exhaustion is a real problem. And another thing that's a real problem is a feeling of being stuck. And a couple of things really inflame that so the, the kind of. The world changed a lot during COVID The world changed a lot during COVID And a lot of companies took a real pivot towards things like remote working and then subsequently kind of ready fight, positive remote, hybrid, flexible options. But a lot of places are rolling back from that. A lot of places are rolling back from that, moving into a return to the office environment. And I get that and I understand the drives behind it.

Caspar Mahoney [00:35:35]:
But what's really important is that kind of thing happens is let's be a little bit sympathetic to the needs of the introverts in the world. Because for introverts, being in the office all day, every day is absolutely not what most introverts would choose to do. And they would find very, very draining. And it would probably mean that there are some days where they're really not at their best simply because they're exhausted. Now, that's not the only cause of exhaustion. There's a lot behind that. And one of the key things I try to focus on with my clients is what can I do to give them a better level, overall level of energy, and how can they sustain that level? They will get peaks and troughs. But what can you do to manage your energy? And the first step there is understanding it.

Caspar Mahoney [00:36:24]:
And the other piece I mentioned is a feeling of stuck, being stuck. And the reason I think a lot of introverted men come to me with, with problems around being stuck is because we introverts tend to overthink things a little bit. We tend to be in a real. And that's a power, that's a superpower, by the way, if used in the right. The right way, you know, preparation being one of those ways. But it can also converse to you like all of these things. The flip side to that is you might overthink a lot of stuff that needs action, just needs action, is begging for action. And there's a part of your brain that knows is begging for action.

Caspar Mahoney [00:37:02]:
And that part of the brain ain't happy with the lack of action. And so you feel stuck. And the reason you're stuck is probably yourself. Probably yourself. And so there's things that have to be talked about, have to be raised from the subconscious sometimes into the conscious around what are the true causes of that feeling. But overthinking is part of the problem, part of the puzzle, and it doesn't help with the energy level either. So there are things we have to do to manage those pieces, to solve those. And they're complex things to be solved, but they can be treated, they can Be treated.

David Hall [00:37:36]:
Yeah. And I mean I do think that we are more prone to overthinking because we are in our heads more often than not. And you know, for me, and like you said, it's, it can be a great thing because we're, we're coming up with great solutions, we're maybe identifying some challenges, all kinds of things, but you just have to kind of give yourself a deadline and maybe someone else has given you a deadline. It's like, okay, I need time to think, but at some point the thinking has to be done. And, and I, I, that's really worked for me is thinking, okay, how long do need. And at this point I have to make a decision.

Caspar Mahoney [00:38:13]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think also, and also being, I, I think if you, if you use some of the kind of right practices like I, I talk to my clients quite a lot about things like mindfulness meditation, things that raise your minute to minute, moment to moment, self awareness. Because what you can get quite good at is labeling. You're labeling what's happening so you can kind of catch yourself in the moment when not through anyone else's judgment but your own, you go, I'm overthinking this. I can see what's happening right now. I'm overthinking something that I could act upon. I know enough right now to act upon it. So when you catch yourself in that, when you've got that energy level that you, you, you've got enough control over yourself and self awareness and, and ability to interrupt pattern, interrupt habitual negative, doom scrolling on your phone or overthinking a simple issue, you can go interrupt.

Caspar Mahoney [00:39:15]:
I can see that I'm overthinking and you can move on. You can just take the action with a level of risk. Now you don't want to do that for every decision because sometimes your overthinking is a superpower and you can really apply that thinking and make a brilliant decision about a very complex, difficult issue that requires thoughtfulness. So it's about using the power, but being aware of the downside to that power and managing that effectively. And I think there are lots of methods like meditation and mindfulness that can really, really help with that.

David Hall [00:39:48]:
Yeah, let's just talk just a bit more about mindfulness. What is that to you and how do you achieve it?

Caspar Mahoney [00:39:54]:
A brilliant question. Yeah, so it's a real buzzword and has been for.

David Hall [00:39:59]:
Yeah, let's get beyond the buzzword.

Caspar Mahoney [00:40:01]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think, you know, mindfulness is a concept I think has been around for maybe millennia if you go into the spiritual roots of it, which I won't do now much as I'm prone to do, you know, for me it's, you know, the self aware badge is not far off. That's pretty close to it. You know, being able to observe your own thought patterns, being able to observe your own patterns to gain more control over where you want to direct them, direct that attention. Which is why, you know, classic, most common practices people think about is things people think are lotus position, meditating. Knees are out there on, you know, arms are on the hands are on the lap, they're meditating. That's mindfulness. That's one way of accessing mindfulness and self awareness because the breathing control and the calmness that it brings to you allows you to gently kind of take a little bit more of a, become a little bit aware of what's happening in your mind and where that attention is going, which is mindfulness.

Caspar Mahoney [00:41:11]:
Right, that's mindfulness. You don't have to use that method to access that level of self awareness. And what I really love to do is encourage people to use the more kind of tiny actionable steps that you can use to get into access that state any point of the day. Any point of the day in any instance. And I mentioned one of those in the public speaking thing earlier ago, talking about where you think about breathing control. That breathing control helps you to get a little bit more connectedness into that self aware. What is my state, what am I thinking about? What do I want it to be thinking about bringing it back to a calm place that I kind of want to gently redirect it. Another one is when I'm walking down the road and I got like a 15 minute walk.

Caspar Mahoney [00:41:59]:
Well, that's peaceful and kind of almost mindfulness anyway. But if I just think about listening to kind of the world around me and focus on what I'm hearing, tuning into sensory perception and away from the kind of the, the kind of talking, the dialogue that's going on in the head by almost effectively redirecting it to senses. That for me is mindfulness. And because that's mindfulness that's accessible at any time you want it, it's always there. You don't have to get into lotus position.

David Hall [00:42:32]:
Right.

Caspar Mahoney [00:42:34]:
Which is beautiful and wonderful and I encourage people to access it frequently.

David Hall [00:42:39]:
Yeah, we've been talking a lot about self awareness. Just tell us just how do you help your clients become more self aware and understand their strengths as introverts?

Caspar Mahoney [00:42:50]:
Yeah, so I think you know a lot of these things we've talked about will help. And you know, mindfulness is a really important piece there because if you don't know what's happening in your mind moment to moment and you don't see the patterns around it, that's going to make it a bit harder to become truly self aware. And patterns are really important for me. So that's, that's key. And I, and I do encourage people to look at mindfulness practices if they're not already pursuing them. And breathing control and meditation is a great entry point. But there are others if that's not your taste. I think those, those psychometric tests that we talked about earlier like Firob, Big five personality traits, mbti, Myers Briggs, those are excellent.

Caspar Mahoney [00:43:38]:
If you want to do Myers Briggs, go and Google 16 personality. You'll find a free test there. You can, you can get your MBT and they will, if you answer it honestly, you get a pretty comprehensive, detailed report on your personality traits. And what's particularly interesting to look at there is how you can be perceived by others because that may be a blind spot. And a lot of introverts may not be aware of how they're perceived by others when all they think they're doing is being quiet. People might perceive them as being distant. That's as much their problem in a way as it is your own in a sense. But those are good for self awareness.

Caspar Mahoney [00:44:20]:
Getting feedback from people is really helpful. Like getting like if you get 360s done in your workplace, 360 degree assessments from peers in your workplace really encourage you to run those and use those and consume the feedback you get. That's a very helpful thing for self awareness number one. The thing that most transformative for me and for many people I've worked with and known whether I coach them or not, is coaching. Coaching I think is very, very transformative, very powerful and in an accelerated way it's very fast at getting that self awareness up. Whereas these other techniques, they can be a little bit more, a little bit more self paced than coaching will drive you a little bit through accountability to another person. So accountability, partnering, that you get through a good coach will really drive that self because they'll ask you every call, where are we at with this? How did you do on that exercise? You said last week you were going to do an mbti. Have you done it yet? They'll ask you those questions and you'll have to answer honestly, why didn't you? You said you would do it yourself.

Caspar Mahoney [00:45:27]:
So that's, that's very Useful. So I think there's a lot of good tools like that. There's a particular technique I recommend I discovered very recently that I've really been enjoying, which is you. I can't remember the name of the author. It was the lady that wrote a very popular book called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.

David Hall [00:45:43]:
Okay.

Caspar Mahoney [00:45:44]:
Very popular book. She does a little matrix that she completes every day, which has your key, kind of almost thematic things that you want to put your day's energy onto. And typically mine will be things like family, friends, fun, career growth. There's about nine boxes and you populate each with these themes, all these things you want to apply yourself to. You do that for a couple of weeks and you pretty much, I guarantee you quite quickly become aware of where you've got gaps you're not attending to and you might become aware of something that you want to improve. Particular one for me over the last few months that I've been really looking at is fun. Every morning I come to the fun box and be like, what am I doing for fun in my life? And I started to become self aware of this. My own limiting blockers around fun and how I wasn't putting.

Caspar Mahoney [00:46:40]:
Being consciously inserting enough of it into my. Into my day. So I quite like that sort of tool as well, to those tools and techniques.

David Hall [00:46:49]:
All right. Are you having enough fun now?

Caspar Mahoney [00:46:51]:
I can never have enough fun, but I'm. I'm having more, David.

David Hall [00:46:57]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Casper, this has been a wonderful conversation. It's gone by really fast. I've really enjoyed talking with you.

Caspar Mahoney [00:47:03]:
You added up already. I could have kept going.

David Hall [00:47:05]:
Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to add today?

Caspar Mahoney [00:47:09]:
No. It's been a wonderful conversation, David. I really enjoyed it. Thank you again so much to you for inviting me along and to your audience for listening in. I hope one day I'll come back and speak to you again.

David Hall [00:47:23]:
Yeah, absolutely. So where can people find out more about you and the great work that you're doing?

Caspar Mahoney [00:47:28]:
I'm lucky enough, very unfortunate enough to have a really odd name. So for those that Google Casper Mahoney, spelled C A S P A R Mahoney, they will find my details. I'm very active on Facebook and Insta, so if you want to ever want to get in touch with me and pick up a bit of coaching with me, I you reach out to me by direct message on one of those and I'll get back to you and we can talk.

David Hall [00:47:53]:
Yeah, sounds great. Thanks again.

Caspar Mahoney [00:47:55]:
Thank you so much, David. Appreciate it.

David Hall [00:47:58]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free type Finder personality Assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyanstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:48:37]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.