Ep 229 - How to Lead Authentically as an Introvert or HSP with guest Clare Emma Wild

Are you an introvert or highly sensitive person (HSP) who’s ever wondered how to thrive as a leader while staying true to yourself? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with Clare Emma Wild—certified coach, quiet leader, and expert in helping introverts and HSPs step into leadership with authenticity and strength. Together, they unpack how you can stop people pleasing, overcome imposter syndrome, and embrace your natural strengths as a quieter leader.

Listen in to discover practical strategies for harnessing your empathy and intuition as superpowers, learn steps to stop people-pleasing, and find the best ways to recharge and process after high-energy days. Clare also shares her journey from burnout to self-acceptance, highlights the unique strengths that introverts and HSPs bring to the workplace, and busts common myths—like the idea that introverts can’t be effective leaders or that enjoying people is exclusive to extroverts.

If you’re ready to learn how to lead authentically, gain actionable advice for managing your energy, and unlock ways to celebrate your accomplishments without falling prey to imposter syndrome, this episode is for you. Tune in and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/229 

Clare Emma Wild is a certified and accredited coach for Quiet Leaders, helping them to stop people pleasing and overcome their imposter syndrome, so they can take action and enjoy the success they deserve. As well as leading senior teams and winning awards she has bounced back from two periods of burnout, so she understands the importance of not trying to lead as others do, Instead use your strengths, and support yourself. She blends mindset coaching with a somatic approach, tailored for the introverted, sensitive and empathic, and this is why her coaching is powerful for quieter people.

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Transcript

Clare Emma Wild [00:00:00]:
I'm really fed up that I said yes, and I'm fed up with that person. And they should have known I wanted to say no, and they should have known I'm tired. And it sometimes can be really hard to recognize, to acknowledge. I'm actually really, really annoyed. And it's okay to be frustrated because that's telling you something, but we can really beat ourselves up for then going, oh, you know, I was so awful because I'm thinking bad thoughts about that person. You know, I'm like, oh, God, they should know. So that may be the first thing. And the next thing is building in a pause.

Clare Emma Wild [00:00:32]:
You know, if you keep saying yes to things that people are asking you to do, build in a pause. Don't go for no straight away. Building a pause. Come with that phrase that you can say and practice and be ready for when that thing comes in. So if it is work, maybe the phrase, and it's your boss that keeps asking you, you'd say, let me just check with the team and I'll come back to you by closer Play something like that to give yourself time. And I would. That's where I would start.

David Hall [00:01:11]:
Hello and welcome to episode 229 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David hall, the creator of quietandstrong.com. this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced normally. We'll air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and also help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Claire Emma Wild is a certified and accredited coach for quiet leaders, helping them to stop people pleasing and overcome their imposter syndrome so that they can take action and enjoy the success they deserve, as well as leading senior teams and winning awards.

David Hall [00:02:02]:
She has bounced back from two periods of burnout, so she understands the importance of not trying to lead as others do. Instead, use your strengths and and support yourself. She blends mindset coaching with the somatic approach tailored for the introverted, sensitive and empathic. And this is why her coaching is so powerful for quieter people. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Claire. Claire, it's so good to have you on today.

Clare Emma Wild [00:02:30]:
Oh, it's amazing. Thank you, David, for inviting me. It's so cool to be here.

David Hall [00:02:34]:
Yeah, and we're going to get into the work you do, you know, coaching introverts, coaching introverted leaders. Tell us about yourself and your journey to the work that you're doing now.

Clare Emma Wild [00:02:46]:
Yeah, cool. That's a great question. So some of started a long time ago, but I started, I don't know, when I was 14 years old. Hey, we're going back a bit. No, I trained to be a, decided I wanted to be a veterinarian. So that was what I was going to do. And from that point on, it was about working hard, head down, work hard, head down, work hard. And I think, you know, I, I then became a vet and worked out there with dogs and cats and cows and, and horses.

Clare Emma Wild [00:03:19]:
And that was all really cool. And then I started working for the federal government. I moved into that role. And I think for me, what changed was you. You, I moved from the. That getting your head down and doing stuff, you just do your job, you go home. I say that glibly, but of course stuff played on my mind, you know, the things that didn't go so well, maybe I could have done them better, et cetera. But then I.

Clare Emma Wild [00:03:43]:
And I loved it. But I moved into federal government because of a health issue and for six months, and I'm still there 20 years later, but never mind, that's another story. But I think the thing that changed for me was, although I'd done leadership roles in the past and I captained sports teams and things, things, I started moving into leadership and suddenly the get your head down and work harder didn't work. And it wasn't sudden, I suppose it was slow, but it didn't work so much, you know, anymore. And thinking that, you know, I just need to work and the results will show for themselves. And it wasn't working so much. And I always knew I was a little bit different from other people, I guess, but it's like, yeah, this isn't working, so I just need to learn how to be a better leader. So that was really, really drove me and that didn't work so well.

Clare Emma Wild [00:04:31]:
I burnt out a couple of times. This isn't working. So this isn't working so much. So I know we'll come onto it. But that really started my journey into, well, who am I then? Because either I need to give this up, this isn't working, I'm exhausted, I'm burnt out, I've had six and then four months off, something isn't working. Either this isn't suited for me or I'm not suited for it, or something needs to really change. And that's when coaching came in for me and really changing the way I led and showed up in the workplace for me.

David Hall [00:05:04]:
Yeah, I relate so much to what you're saying. What was it that was particularly challenging? What were you saying? This isn't working for me. About hit the nail on the head.

Clare Emma Wild [00:05:14]:
It wasn't just one thing, you know, I think if it was one thing it would have almost been easy. But it was. I was looking at other leaders and thinking I needed to be like that. But what I was doing was looking at extroverted leaders and people who are very different from me rather than understanding. I needed to be myself and then look at how I could be a leader. And I think it was that emulating, trying to emulate them and beating myself up about the things I found difficult and not recognizing the things I found, you know, the things that came intuitively to me, dismissing them because they weren't that important and they were easy. So why would that be important?

David Hall [00:06:01]:
Yeah, yeah. That comparison can be killer for us. You know, trying to be someone that has different strengths than we do. We have our own strengths and the comparison can really be troublesome.

Clare Emma Wild [00:06:14]:
Yeah, totally. And we can just kick ourselves down, you know, with that. And I was just thinking about, you know, difficult conversations would rock me for days because I thought I should be fine. Would never give myself any space to decompress or look at how, you know, what support I needed, that kind of thing. Maybe a bit of time on my own. I wouldn't do any of that. I'd be like, it should be fine. Everyone else just gets on with this, it's fine.

David Hall [00:06:40]:
Yeah.

Clare Emma Wild [00:06:41]:
You know, being away, being in company and just simple things like, you know, you'd go away for conferences or you'd spend a full on day not understanding that. Actually what I needed then was a bit of time on my own and then I'd be fine.

David Hall [00:06:53]:
Yeah, yeah. And the people you're working with, the extroverts that you're working with, they may not need that time. And sometimes you're made to feel like, well, that's kind of strange, you know, why do you need that?

Clare Emma Wild [00:07:04]:
Oh yeah, totally. I'm a bit of an audible. I'm a bit weird.

David Hall [00:07:08]:
Yeah.

Clare Emma Wild [00:07:09]:
Why would I need to not go out for a drink? It's like, I really need to go like, no, but that's weird. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I'll come out then it'll all be fine.

David Hall [00:07:18]:
Yeah. When did you put a, a name to it that you were an introvert? And also a highly sensitive person. When did you figure that out?

Clare Emma Wild [00:07:26]:
Oh, late on, by many standards. And it happened gradually, and the understanding happened gradually. I think the first time I got or I had, I got the label was I did a really, really good leadership course. And we did a Myers Briggs as part of that. And I came out as infj. And I think it was like, oh, oh, okay, I'm an introvert. But I didn't really understand what that meant then. And I think that was in my late 30s, so 10 years ago.

Clare Emma Wild [00:08:02]:
And I put the negative connotations on it, you know, okay, so that's me. But that's not good. So what can I do differently to be a different leader? Same old, same old stuff. And then it was just. And then it was gradually, through reading, researching Susan Cain's book. I read around quiet, being introverted. The. As I say, the periods of burnout really made me.

Clare Emma Wild [00:08:33]:
I had to do something differently. So it's a real, like, dive into what does being an introvert mean? Research. And then that. And I had a second lead. I had some coaching, and that really helped me understand that I could solve things myself. It wasn't actually about mentoring. It wasn't about other people telling me what to do. And then I did.

Clare Emma Wild [00:08:55]:
The thing was understanding that I could do things differently and figure it out.

David Hall [00:08:59]:
Yeah. Many people. Many people have brought up Susan Cain's book as really helping them feel like, oh, I'm an introvert. That's okay. And not only am I okay, but there's great strengths that come from this. Was it also coaching? Like when you were in coaching, was it to help you embrace your introversion?

Clare Emma Wild [00:09:19]:
Yeah. Because that for me was about, you're okay. You know, it's not about you being this other person. You're okay. How do we work together to make. How do we work together to solve whatever it is or issues or things you have problems with, but challenges. Yeah. And so there was.

Clare Emma Wild [00:09:42]:
Yeah. And totally. Yeah. And that was just a different outlook, I guess, because I think it's the same. It's back to what you said about introverts. You're just looking at other people. Think I need to be like that.

David Hall [00:09:53]:
Yeah.

Clare Emma Wild [00:09:53]:
I don't.

David Hall [00:09:55]:
That was me. That was me, too.

Clare Emma Wild [00:09:57]:
Yeah. It's like, I need to be like that. And then if I'm like that, everything will be fine. And I won't be so exhausted and I won't be so wired and I won't be so drained and it'll all be cool. But it didn't do that. And I. And I don't think until I really understood through that and through coaching, almost when I did the coaching course and back just before COVID and then as part of the course, you kind of did some. You coached each other.

Clare Emma Wild [00:10:25]:
And I was beginning to understand what an introvert was like, really understand it, not just read it and get it. That actually it's about my energy, and it's okay to look after my energy. And if I look after my energy and I keep doing that, I can do all the things I thought I couldn't do because they exhausted me or burned me out or whatever it is. But I didn't get it quickly. It didn't come like a light bulb, I think, with the negative connotations around it.

David Hall [00:10:52]:
For me, yeah, there's too many negative connotations. And that's something. That's why we're doing what we're doing. You know, there are still. Still negative stereotypes. And it's like, no, it's just a natural way of being. And we just need to understand it. You're also a highly sensitive person.

David Hall [00:11:11]:
Not all introverts are. What does that mean to you? And how did you figure that piece out?

Clare Emma Wild [00:11:15]:
Yeah, that was another bit that was. That was a friend of mine. I. I guess I had suspicions, but again, I just thought. I guess I didn't. I dealt with things differently to others. I was going for a run with a friend, actually. He's an amazing artist.

Clare Emma Wild [00:11:27]:
And she said, I don't know what we're talking about. Well, we ran. And she said, are you sure you're not. Did you not think you're a highly sensitive person? What on earth is this? I'm. A friend did this to me and said the same to me. And I read through Elaine Aaron's work, and she said, yeah, I'm definitely a highly sensitive person. And I think if anyone else had told me, I'd be like, no, I don't cry all the time. You know, I'm not.

Clare Emma Wild [00:11:49]:
I'm not flakes out in a mess on the floor. I'm fine. But she said it, and I was like, oh, hang on. She's pretty cool. You know, really successful artist and business. Okay. So I read the work and I thought, oh, my God, yes. And again, that's been slow because for me, it was the.

Clare Emma Wild [00:12:04]:
Initially, it was the sensory stuff. So bright lights, loud noises. Someone touches me, I jump about 20ft in the air, even though it's the. You know, it's my poor husband or something. And, yeah, scratchy clothing I can't bear, you know, things like that. It started and I was really identifying with that and emotions as well, which I find I can find overwhelming changes in temperature. So yeah, I really started identifying with that and then understanding, okay, so that's different. There's nothing wrong with it.

Clare Emma Wild [00:12:40]:
And again, that strengths come with it. But there are, I think with introversion, I'm being highly sensitive. There are ways we need to take care of ourselves in order to be our best. And I think accepting that takes some time. And then experimenting. What is it I need? I don't need everything and I want to get out there in the world. So how do I do that and support myself?

David Hall [00:13:06]:
Yeah. So you mentioned a couple great books, Susan Cain for introverts and Elaine Aaron for highly sensitive people, also sometimes shortened as hsps. What are strengths that you discovered being an introvert and a highly sensitive person?

Clare Emma Wild [00:13:21]:
Yeah, there are so many, aren't there? And I think we've touched on this. But I think it's so hard for introverts and highly sensitive people because they come so easily naturally that you just dismiss them and think everyone can do it. I mean, you take empathy, you know what, what's the point of that? Well, I can't remember. I still. Was it in Forbes or something? It's like 92% of people said they would stay in, stay in employment when they were going to leave if their boss showed more empathy. So, well, there's it for a start, why that would be important. And you know, there's. There's great listeners and we say that really glibly, but I mean really listening to hear and understand and I mean, who doesn't want to be understood and asking questions, curiosity, you know, that emotional intelligence, there's that deep thinking and processing.

Clare Emma Wild [00:14:14]:
Again, you can see the negative side to that. But it means that we're really good at solving problems and seeing patterns, seeing where things might end up, rather than, oh, that's a quick solution and then. But thinking a few steps down the line. Okay, so that might be a problem down the line. So maybe that's not a great solution or maybe it's still a great solution, but we need to mitigate whatever that is. Yeah, empathy, great thinkers, great listeners, emotional intelligence, creativity. And I think we can get stuck in creativity as well and think, oh, well, I can't really paint. But it's not that it's solutions, you know, because I can't paint very well either.

Clare Emma Wild [00:14:53]:
But you know, it's finding solutions and I think we're really Great at. Well, intuition. Something's a bit off. How do I start doing that? I was coaching someone the other day who's really great at seeing one. Relationships with his customers. There's something a bit odd about it. Something's not right. So I work with him finding ways to direct, to raise that.

Clare Emma Wild [00:15:18]:
But equally, he gets it before anyone else has noticed something's not quite right. And that's so cool in that sort of area. And what have I forgotten?

David Hall [00:15:29]:
It's a good list so far. And I mean, yeah, we're listening. We're definitely great observers because we're gathering information and we're, you know, thinking deeply about all this information that we're gathering. And we're coming up with some great things, often creative. And I also am not good with the paintbrush, but I can think of some really creative ideas, giving my mind some time to work on them.

Clare Emma Wild [00:15:58]:
Yeah, totally. And I think that word. I think when we use those words, you know, creativity, empathy, intuition, you think, well, what's that got? I mean, you just given a really good example. What. How good is that in the workplace? It's amazing in the workplace when you start thinking about when you're leading teams, when you're dealing with customers. I know what it was. Great collaborators, really good at that. But I mean, that takes all of those skills and makes it into, you know, that collegiate collaboration, bringing people along with you because, you know, it's that seeking to understand before you're understood.

David Hall [00:16:33]:
Yes. Yeah, that's. That is very true. So on the show, we talk about strengths of introverts and needs, and we've been talking about that. We bust some myths. Is there a myth you want to bust about introversion or HSP or both?

Clare Emma Wild [00:16:50]:
Yeah, I think the first thing is that introverts don't make good leaders. It's a total myth. For me. Any leadership team needs a mix. Absolutely. Yeah, they absolutely need a mix. So it's not for me about knocking extroverts. I'm not saying the introverts are the best leaders, although of course we are.

Clare Emma Wild [00:17:08]:
But don't tell anybody.

David Hall [00:17:11]:
I agree.

Clare Emma Wild [00:17:13]:
Introverts can't be leaders because they don't speak out and they don't always speak first. And I think because of what we've just said, they do make amazing leaders. Like I said, in a leadership team, I don't want it all to be introverts. I wouldn't want them all to be extroverts either. So I think there's a balance there. But that's not what you asked me, and I think the other big one I come up with my clients every time is I'm not. When I'm talking them through and they don't quite know they're an introvert. It's like, I didn't think I was introvert because I like people.

David Hall [00:17:43]:
Oh yeah, that one drives me crazy. I, I talk so much about this and I get that all the time. You know, someone, someone will pitch to be on my show and maybe it's a third party. And they don't mention anything about introversion. And so I ask, I'm like, does this person consider themselves an introvert or extrovert? And I get so often, well, I'm a little bit of both. I'm like, yeah, you're probably not really, you know, and, and when I talk to them, they tell me that exact thing. Well, I like people. And my response is, yeah, guess what? I do too.

David Hall [00:18:18]:
I'm an introvert. I like people. I need people. I like to connect with people. But there's some things that are different about that for me, you know, so that, that one drives me a little crazy. And that's part of the negative stereotype that we're talking about is, you know, and you know, honestly, there are people that don't like people, but it's such a small percentage of the population. I just, you know, I did a quick search and I think it came up with 1%. So, you know, and introverts are about 50% of the population.

David Hall [00:18:49]:
We absolutely like people, but we may not want to spend constant time with people. You know, I think it was before we hit record that you were saying, you know, there may be a day where you start at 8 o' clock in the morning and you, you do a workshop all day and then there's dinner and then there's after that and, and, and then the bar after that and that's too much.

Clare Emma Wild [00:19:11]:
Yeah, yeah, totally. And, and I think, you know, understanding it's not about not liking people. I love people too, but it can get really confusing. And until we get it as introverts or other people get it as introverts, it's about your energy being with people. You can love it all you like, but it's going to tire you out and it's going to suck the energy from you. Extroverts get the energy from it. They'll do it all day. You put them on their own, they'll go stir crazy after a little while.

Clare Emma Wild [00:19:41]:
No, a long while. That's not fair either. So it's about your energy. You might love people, but you need time on your own to get the energy back to be great with people. Because I don't know about you, but when I didn't get this and I would do it all the time, I start getting a bit narky and a bit like, I didn't want to be with people, but it's not that, you know, it's not that I don't like them, it's because.

David Hall [00:20:03]:
Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's. Recharge is something that's very important. But also I'm sure that you find this too. It's not just about recharge. You know, you need some time to think and plan and. And all of that. So we need alone time for lots of things.

David Hall [00:20:20]:
And it's just. There's a balance there. So it's, you know, most of us don't want to be alone all the time. I would go crazy if I was alone all the time. But I need some time and I need some time to spend with people I care about. I need some time to collaborate, you know, all of that.

Clare Emma Wild [00:20:37]:
Yeah, totally. And the thing I'm finding as well is giving myself a bit of processing time is really helpful. Whether that's the high sensitivity or the introversion or both. I find the borders quite hard because on a personal level, I just. Just half an hour at the end of a day or an end of some. A really busy day or a high impact day, just sit. Don't do anything, Just sit. And it's like the thought.

Clare Emma Wild [00:21:03]:
Just let the thought, let it all come. Don't try and figure it out, just let it happen. And I feel like my whole brain is just processing the stuff, I think because as you said, I take a lot in. It means time process.

David Hall [00:21:16]:
So yeah, you know, we can think on our feet, but most of the time we come up with some brilliant things by taking the time, by letting ideas roll around in our head, by gathering information, observing. So we need some time to process. Are there other ways that you have learned to manage your energy as an introvert and a highly sensitive person?

Clare Emma Wild [00:21:40]:
I think that somehow we've come across the main ones. I think for me it's making that hard decision about when do I need to not do something that I want to do and looks a bit inadvertently weird, like if I spend a busy day away at a conference or a meeting saying I'm not coming out at dinner, it's been a hard day. I know there's a big day tomorrow, I want to Be ready for that and. Or I want, I want to be a. I want to have some energy left for the weekend so that I don't just collapse and stay in bed for two days, you know, and then that processing is really important. I think the other thing for me is back to back meetings in my day job I find incredibly draining. And I think I've really tried to go away from that. Sometimes you can't help it, but just trying to get a little break in five or 10 minutes.

Clare Emma Wild [00:22:32]:
And I agree with you. We can think on our feet totally. And we can think fast. My personal view is that a lot of that comes from that processing because we've made a load of connections and a thing comes up and we're like, our brains are connecting all those things that we've connected and then we come up with a solution. So it's fast, but there's that as well. So, yeah, back to back meetings for me, you know, because they're not. When they're not related. So you're going straight from one thing with a load of other people to, oh God, what's the other thing? And we're giving ourselves what, 10 seconds or something when we can fit.

Clare Emma Wild [00:23:07]:
It's like, no wonder we're exhausted, you know? Yeah, maybe it's like, yeah, I'm buzzing, man, this is just amazing.

David Hall [00:23:14]:
And I'm like, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. So, Claire, you talked about that you really benefited from coaching, going through coaching, and then you became one yourself. Why did you decide to do that? And what's the value of coaching?

Clare Emma Wild [00:23:30]:
Yeah, I decided it was a chance. Well, chance conversation. A chance conversation. So my leadership style has always been coaching. And I'm really passionate about helping people do things their way. I always have been. Do things their way, develop, empowering them to make mistakes in some ways. But it was a chance conversation where somebody told me they trained as a coach.

Clare Emma Wild [00:23:58]:
And I thought, well, why did I do that? I really loved coaching. Why not train as a coach? And. And the opportunity came through Covid, bizarrely, because a load of the in person, the, the. Sorry. The course I wanted to do, which was amazing, was in person over I don't even know how many weekends in London. And there's no way I could commit to do that for all the reasons we've talked about already. It's like no working week and no Covid meant I could do it online. So I signed up, did the course and it just blew my mind, you know, whatever I thought I got out of it.

Clare Emma Wild [00:24:40]:
It was just incredible. We coached Each other understand so much about more about psychology, how coaching can help, why it helps. And from that point onwards I was like, no, I want to continue coaching people. Not just coaching as a leader, but actually coaching people and helping them to understand that whatever it is they want to do, they can do it and understand themselves better. It is about understanding themselves, what their nature is, where they want to get to and then helping them do that. And yeah, it's been amazing. Every coaching session just lights me up.

David Hall [00:25:18]:
That's awesome.

Clare Emma Wild [00:25:20]:
Yeah, it's amazing. And I think for me, coaching is about, I mean, I mentioned it earlier, it's that flip from I don't have to do things like other people do. I'm not trying to be that person. Although it's great to have, you know, people you really want to emulate you look up to and say, that's the leader I want to be. But it's somebody who believes in you, who knows that you have the solution, the best solution for you, and can walk you along the road supporting, challenging your thinking to uncover whatever that is. Maybe it isn't the thing you thought it was. So yeah, I think it's absolutely incredible. And I'm really humbled by the guys that I coach who are almost all introverts.

Clare Emma Wild [00:26:05]:
Most of them are highly sensitive. Doesn't mean they have to know it, but I would. Not that I'm a psychologist, so I can't diagnose them, but I would be suspicious, let's put it that way.

David Hall [00:26:16]:
Yeah. How do you help your clients become self aware and learn their strengths and things?

Clare Emma Wild [00:26:23]:
So that's a really good question because it's different for everyone. And if you ask, I don't know about you, if someone comes up to me and goes, what are your strengths, Claire? I don't know. I don't know what they are. But the thing I usually start with is looking at people's values and what lights them up, what gets them up in the morning, what's important to them, and then translating that. If they're coaching about work, translating that to life and work. And that is just the best starting point for me is understanding yourself. Why is that important? That thing that's important, why is it important? Why is honesty really important to you? Why is I look at mine behind me? Why is making a difference really important to me or wildness really important to me? And I think that's a great way to start for anybody because you can sit down. I mean, it's easier with a coach, you know yourself, it's a Lot easier but you can sit down yourself.

Clare Emma Wild [00:27:26]:
There's I don't know how many lists. I love James Clear. Who you will will know is he Atomic habits. But anyway I'm giving you.

David Hall [00:27:33]:
Yeah, yeah, that. That sounds right.

Clare Emma Wild [00:27:36]:
I love for introverts. I love. He's got a whole list of values on his website. You know, you can look at that and say, right, I'm gonna. I'm going to narrow these down to three and that's what I'm gonna. These are. Doesn't mean all that. All the other 50, sorry, 47.

Clare Emma Wild [00:27:54]:
My math is terrible. 47 aren't vital, aren't really important. But what are my three absolute top values? And if you can understand that about yourself, then you can look at all the decisions that you're making. Are they in line with those values? What does that mean about me? And the other thing I'd say is just read if you think you're an introvert. I quite like Myers Briggs myself. For me it's not about putting you in the box and saying who you are. It's about understanding a bit more about how you think and then research. We're introverts, we love it.

Clare Emma Wild [00:28:30]:
Read those books.

David Hall [00:28:31]:
Yeah, Tap into that love of research. Absolutely. Yeah. I greatly benefited from the Myers Briggs and you know, it's a tool and it gives you some really good ideas and things to think about. You don't have to accept every single thing it says, but you have to just like say, hey, is this true for me? You know what? I really. I love that phrase you used to. What lights you up. I.

David Hall [00:28:57]:
That's just like a key. Because if we can get to the point where we're spending most of our time in those things that light us up, that's amazing. There's always going to be things that we don't want to do that's part of any job as part of our lives. But if we can spend most of our time in those areas that really light us up, that's amazing. And so that's such a great question.

Clare Emma Wild [00:29:21]:
Yeah, totally. And starting small. And this is where I always, always go with stuff like that. If you go, oh, well, what lights me up? I'm only doing it a little bit at the time. Fine. Concentrate on that.

David Hall [00:29:33]:
That is.

Clare Emma Wild [00:29:34]:
And then expand it. Look for other opportunities. Where else can you do it? If you can't do it in your job right now, maybe you can do it outside your job right now. Maybe you are thinking about, actually, I need a different job that I can do more of that Maybe, but start small and expand it. But yeah, it's totally. What is it that is just lighting me up.

David Hall [00:29:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that, too. It's like, you know, when we hit that place where we want to make a change, things aren't going to happen instantly most of the time. But if you can embrace, okay, I like this thing that I'm doing. How can I do more of it? It's going to. We need to be patient with ourselves.

Clare Emma Wild [00:30:10]:
Yeah, totally. And. And asking yourself, okay, how can I do more than that? How can I do more? Where can I do more? And you know, I love as well the thing from coaching where you just write. How can I. And if you're a writer, do it. Anything goes, you know, don't limit yourself any possibility of how you can do it. Get it down, get it thinking, getting it through your mind. You know, it doesn't have to be work or home or both or neither or whatever it is.

Clare Emma Wild [00:30:39]:
I love it.

David Hall [00:30:40]:
Yeah. So, Claire, you also talk a lot about people pleasing and how when we get stuck in that, how do we get out of it? Especially as an introverted leader, how do we stop people pleasing?

Clare Emma Wild [00:30:56]:
It's not easy, but I think it's recognizing it first because it's insidious. Like all of these things, if you knew that one thing, you'd stop doing it, you know? No. No one listening to this podcast, you know, is an idiot. You know, nobody is. These are smart, resourceful, amazingly impact, amazing people. If it was one thing that was easy, you just fit, you know, it's not. Not a problem. So for me, it's awareness.

Clare Emma Wild [00:31:29]:
Where am I saying yes, that I wanted to say no? Or perhaps more commonly, I'm really fed up that I said yes, and I'm fed up with that person. And they should have known I wanted to say no, and they should have known I'm tired. And it sometimes can be really hard to recognize, to acknowledge. I'm actually really, really annoyed. And it's okay to be frustrated because that's telling you something. But we can really beat ourselves up for then going, oh, you know, I'm so awful because I'm. I'm, you know, I'm thinking bad thoughts about that person. You know, I'm like, oh, God, they should know.

Clare Emma Wild [00:32:04]:
So that may be the first thing. And the next thing is building in a pause. You know, if you keep saying yes to things that people are asking you to do, build in a pause. Don't go for no straight away, building a pause. Come up with a phrase that you can say and practice and be ready for when that thing comes in. So if it is work, maybe the phrase. And it's your boss that keeps asking you, you'd say, let me just check with the team and I'll come back to you by clothes of play, something like that, to give yourself time. And I would.

Clare Emma Wild [00:32:38]:
That's where I would start, is give yourself time to say, can I do this? What are the pros? What are the. What. What are the costs of me saying yes to this? Do I want to say yes to this? But until you build a pause in. We're just gonna. You're just gonna go back to what you always do, that condition, tendency. Yes.

David Hall [00:32:56]:
Yeah. And a big part of it is really understanding what you need and being able to share that with someone. So, again, like we said, you know, being alone, it's not a strange thing, but being able to describe, I need a break or I need some time to think, some time to focus, whatever it is, you know, this thing is gonna interfere with this other thing, you know, and it's really not. I'm not the right person for it totally.

Clare Emma Wild [00:33:21]:
Because there's always. Whenever you say yes to something, there's always something you're saying no to.

David Hall [00:33:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. There's only so much time.

Clare Emma Wild [00:33:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. So what is it? And I think, you know, talking to clients about this is very often the thing we're saying no to as introverts is that rest and downtime. So then again, we can be irritable, want to get away and things. And then we beat ourselves up about that as well. Because sometimes that can be, you know, the. The thing when you spent too much time with people. We spent too much time doing what other people need and what other people want.

Clare Emma Wild [00:33:55]:
And you haven't taken care of yourself. You know, you can become irritable. Not great to be around, right? Yeah. But beating yourself up about that probably isn't going to help either.

David Hall [00:34:06]:
No. Claire, you also talk about imposter syndrome. What is that? And what's your advice for overcoming that, especially for introverted leaders?

Clare Emma Wild [00:34:16]:
So I think for the things we've talked about around introverted leaders, it's really easy for us to step into that. We compare ourselves to other people. And imposter syndrome is really about, we're convinced we're a fraud. We're going to get found out. Downplaying any strengths, achievements, putting them down to luck, or everybody does that, or, you know, everybody's done it. It's easy because I can do it all that kind of good stuff that's really going to keep you in a hole. And again, it's one that you may have always been with. And I think it's maybe something that that has always been with you.

Clare Emma Wild [00:34:54]:
And it's easy to. Because of being introvert and myself highly sensitive, it's like, well, other people aren't like me, so I need to be like that. And they might find out I'm not like them, so I better pretend to be like them. And that's exhausting. And that constant vigilance of someone's going to find me out is. Is really tricky. And everyone has thoughts about I'm not good enough or someone's going to find me out, but it's persistent and it can really. And it's when it gets in the way that I think, you know, when it gets in the way and holds people back from doing stuff, that it becomes a real problem.

Clare Emma Wild [00:35:33]:
And to answer the second question, I think for me it's about celebrating. And that can be really. I said, I gave one of my clients the other day a task of writing 10 things they're proud of. And I could see the pain in their faces. How am I going to get to 10? The squirm, you know, it's like, oh, my God, what, what 10 thing? But as you know, David, our brains have got a negative bias. So we'll always look for things that are wrong or aren't quite up to scratch or where we can improve. And until we start flipping that and looking at and celebrating the positives, we're not going to build that muscle up about celebrating what we do well. And if we're forever looking at what's going wrong or isn't we think up to scratch, then it's almost impossible to start flipping your thinking.

Clare Emma Wild [00:36:27]:
You know, you're just looking at the thing that's wrong, not thinking about, how am I going to. How am I going to not feel like an imposter? Well, you need that confidence. How are you going to build the confidence? It's about. For me, it's about. And very often it's about celebrating what you're doing. Well, and again, starting small. So something like every evening, write three things down that have gone well today. Just start small.

Clare Emma Wild [00:36:54]:
No one's going to see it. It's not about. This isn't. No one's going to see it. It isn't about being boastful or being too big for your boots. It's just three things that have gone well. And I think if you can do that constantly and persistently, there are other things you can do as well. I mean, working with a coach for both of these obviously is really helpful, but I think until we pause to celebrate what we're doing, it's really difficult to overcome it.

David Hall [00:37:19]:
Yeah. That's so important. And I've heard this, I believe it, that we need to track our accomplishments. You know, when we're feeling like an imposter, like, oh, I'm not really qualified for this, we need to remember, you know what, you're here, you're here for a reason. You know, you did some great things, you continue to do great things. Some small, some big, but just really tracking them gives us confidence and helps us, you know, know that we are, we are good enough. We are doing, doing well.

Clare Emma Wild [00:37:49]:
Yeah. And the thing I said to somebody the other day was, what's it gonna, what's it hurting? If you do that, you know what's going to be the consequence? You're not, you're not putting it on a billboard. You're just like you say, tracking. What is it that. And this was a client. What are you proud of?

David Hall [00:38:08]:
Yeah.

Clare Emma Wild [00:38:09]:
No one's going to see that. It's going to be uncomfortable. Totally acknowledge that. Where is it going to harm?

David Hall [00:38:17]:
Absolutely. Claire, we've talked about a lot of great things and we both agree that introverts can be amazing leaders. Is there any other advice you have for the introverted leader out there?

Clare Emma Wild [00:38:28]:
I think I've covered it already, but it is about owning your nature. Find out more about yourself. Working with a coach is great, but there's loads of self help stuff up there. We've talked about some amazing books and there are more out there that I'm not even going to start to name. But find out more about yourself. You know, I've seen some great questions about how do I work better? How do I work best? Do I work best in the morning, what do I need? What lights me up? All of these things. The more you can find out about yourself and then how you work and lead at your best, the better.

David Hall [00:39:00]:
Yeah. That authenticity is so key. You know, for far too long, I tried to be something I wasn't. And I'll tell you what, when I learned who I was and embraced that, my confidence soared. I wasn't shy or anxious anymore. And it's just amazing to be yourself. And just remember, like you said earlier, we shouldn't compare ourselves to others.

Clare Emma Wild [00:39:21]:
No. And there's such a movement I feel at the moment about, you know, equality, diversity, inclusion, neurodiversity, you know we need to include ourselves in there and say it's not only is it okay to be different, it's amazing to be different because great teams and great solutions and great ideas, they all come from a web of different people.

David Hall [00:39:46]:
Yeah. And we need to talk about that. And that's, you know, what we're doing today is we are diverse by our personalities, for sure. And it's maybe one of the biggest ways that we're different. But it's good, it's a good thing. We need everybody. And you said earlier, yeah, we're not bashing the extroverts. We're just saying, what do we all need? How can we all be our authentic self and how can we learn about each other?

Clare Emma Wild [00:40:08]:
Absolutely. And I love the extroverts I work with because they, they do things I can't. They. They do things I can't. They do things easily that I find difficult and, you know, we end up in a good balance.

David Hall [00:40:22]:
Yeah. So, Claire, this has been a wonderful conversation. Where can people find out more about the great work that you're doing?

Clare Emma Wild [00:40:30]:
So find me on LinkedIn. Claire Emma Wilde. If you just search in there. Yeah, just pop in the search bar and I'll come up. I think there's only one at the moment. Yeah, have a look on there. That's where to find me. And yeah, I do have a newsletter every month as well.

Clare Emma Wild [00:40:44]:
So, yeah, pop in there. DM me.

David Hall [00:40:47]:
All right, well, thanks again.

Clare Emma Wild [00:40:48]:
Thank you, David, for inviting me. It's been great.

David Hall [00:40:52]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:41:32]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.