Ep 230 - Reimagining Productivity for Introverts: Creating Space for What Matters with guest Louise Miller

What if true productivity wasn’t about cramming more into your already packed schedule, but about creating space for what truly matters? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with Louise Miller—a productivity expert and fellow introvert—who shares her mission to redefine productivity for introverts and anyone feeling overwhelmed by the “hustle” culture.

Listen in to discover how Louise completely reframed her approach after work-related stress and burnout, leading her to develop a mindful, tailored path to getting things done—without sacrificing well-being. You’ll learn why “being busy” is not the goal, the importance of pausing and creating intentional space, and how both introverts and extroverts can benefit from thoughtful planning and self-awareness. Louise also busts common myths about introverts, discusses the power of deep thinking and quiet preparation, and offers strategies for setting meaningful priorities.

Tune in for practical ideas on how to harness your natural strengths, protect your energy, and take purposeful action. Whether you’re a solo entrepreneur, team leader, or anyone who wants to achieve more by doing less, this episode will inspire you to rethink success on your own terms.

Embrace your strengths—and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/230

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Louise Miller is on a mission to change the world by helping her clients change the world. She partners with coaches, consultants, and community-builders with big visions, helping them turn ideas into reality, reach more people, and make a bigger impact—all while managing the day-to-day juggle, and being kind to themselves along the way.

Described by clients as a "soothing balm" and "magician," Louise's own experience with work-related stress and anxiety inspired her to create a mindful, slower approach to productivity, helping clients focus on what truly matters and get the important things done.

Connect with Louise: Website | LinkedIn

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
Gobio.link/quietandstrong
david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Transcript

Louise Miller [00:00:00]:
I think if you ask most people what productivity is, they'll tell you it's cramming more and more doing into less and less time. It's like getting more done in less time, which makes sense on the surface, but actually to me that's where the panic starts to kick in. It feels quite constraining and restrictive and like you're in this battle with time. So I came up with a definition that productivity is about doing what's important as efficiently as possible to create space for what you love. And it was that and sharing that with people and seeing their response that led me to the work I'm doing now. Because I realized there is a way of helping people to get stuff done that isn't going to lead everybody down the merry path to burnout.

David Hall [00:00:45]:
Hello and welcome to episode 230 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host David hall and the creator of quietandstrong.com. this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and also help others find the show, tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Louise Miller is on a mission to change the world by helping her clients change the world. She partners with coaches, consultants and community leaders with big vision, helping them turn ideas into reality, reach more people and make a bigger impact.

David Hall [00:01:39]:
All while managing the day to day juggle and being kind to themselves along the way. Described by clients as a soothing balm and magician, Louise's own experience with work related stress and anxiety inspired her to create a mindful, slower approach to productivity. Helping clients focus on what truly matters and to get the important things done. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Louise. Louise, it's so good to have you on today.

Louise Miller [00:02:10]:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me, David.

David Hall [00:02:14]:
We're going to talk about the great work that you do and your definition of productivity. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how do you got to the point of the work that you do now?

Louise Miller [00:02:24]:
Yeah, so you know the phrase if you need something doing, give it to a busy person. That was me for 15 years back when I had a normal job. I was always very good at whatever job I was doing and Then I would get promoted, and then I would run away because it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. And I kind of repeated that pattern a few times until I reached a point where I was working in higher education, which I know is something you and I have in common.

David Hall [00:02:52]:
Right.

Louise Miller [00:02:52]:
I was working as a team leader in he. Really, really stressed out by this point, absolutely exhausted, just running around like a crazy person trying to get everything done. And it was starting to take its toll on my health. And I can remember really clearly had such a light bulb moment where I was sitting in my office and I needed to get a glass of water. So I got up to walk to the kitchen, which was about 15 paces away. It wasn't far and halfway between my office and the kitchen. I just had this real moment of clarity where this voice kind of came in my head going, louise, why are you always rushing around? Why are you rushing to get everything done? And seems so obvious looking back on it, but that was kind of the moment where I realized, yeah, why am I rushing around? Everything is never. All never going to be done.

Louise Miller [00:03:41]:
You know, you never get to the point where everything's finished. And I don't know if I was waiting for somebody to be. To tell me, it's all right, Louise, you've done everything. Now you can go home. So that's not how it works, is it? When you're in that kind of environment, the more you're rushing around, the more you're getting done, generally speaking, the more you're being asked to do, and there's no kind of let up from that. So that was kind of the starting point of me realizing something needed to change, because as I said, it was affecting my health, it was making me ill. Cut a long story short, eventually I started to look into how to slow down, because I realized that was what I needed. And then this whole other world opened up to me.

Louise Miller [00:04:18]:
I discovered the slow living movement and started kind of diving into that, realizing that I didn't want to be in the job I was in anymore. So eventually I quit my job. Then I had a massive existential crisis of now what do I do? I was exploring kind of what my strengths were and what came easily to me. And I just kept coming back to, actually, I was really good at getting stuff done, really good at organizing chaos, being efficient and doing all of that. But I also knew that that was what had made me ill. So I was grappling with those two things, thinking, well, this is the stuff I can help people with. But I don't believe in productivity for the sake of productivity because I think that's a dangerous path to go down. So after grappling with that for a while, I then came up with a new definition for productivity.

Louise Miller [00:05:06]:
And that has what. That is what has informed my business kind of moving forward. So I think if you've asked most people what productivity is, they'll tell you it's cramming more and more doing into less and less time. It's like getting more done in less time, which makes sense on the surface, but actually to me that's where the panic starts to kick in. It feels quite constraining and restrictive and like you're in this battle with time. So I came up with a definition that productivity is about doing what's important as efficiently as possible to create space for what you love. And it was that and sharing that with people and seeing their response that led me to the work I'm doing now. Because I realized there is a way of helping people to get stuff done that isn't going to lead everybody down the merry path to burnout.

Louise Miller [00:05:50]:
So that's kind of a, in a nutshell, how I got here.

David Hall [00:05:55]:
Yeah. And so many people think of productivity as being busy, you know, and that's not the goal. Because when you were telling your story, I so much related to it, I was there too, where, you know, you just keep getting, you do some great work, you get more work and it, it becomes, it becomes a math problem. You just can't, you can only do so much and you know, it's, you look at your work life, your, your personal life, you have to decide in all of the areas of your life what is most important to me and how I'm going to do that. Because I, I have definitely tried to do it all and you, you can't, you have to make some priorities. What's most important and what's my best way to go about that?

Louise Miller [00:06:41]:
Yeah, 100. And the other thing for me that I found really hard in that the environment I was in, because, I mean, I imagine it's different over in the States, but I'm sure there are similarities as well with higher education. It's not very well funded and people are expected to do a lot with very little. And my colleagues would be sending emails at 2 o' clock in the morning, not necessarily expecting a response at that time, but it was just kind of indicative of the culture that we were in where everyone was just scrabbling and working ridiculous hours trying to just keep up. And it was just like A hamster wheel. And like you say is it does become that math problem of, you know, what's the solution? Yeah, it's real for a lot of people. Yeah.

David Hall [00:07:28]:
Yeah. It's. It's very similar here too.

Louise Miller [00:07:31]:
Yes.

David Hall [00:07:33]:
Louise, you're also a fellow introvert.

Louise Miller [00:07:35]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:07:36]:
When did you figure that out? And did you have to go through a process of embracing it? Yeah.

Louise Miller [00:07:41]:
So I feel like I was kind of late in life when I figured it out. I'd already gone through 30 something years of living my life wondering what on earth was wrong with me before I realized basically it was when I was working at the university. I had a much long, younger colleague in the team who I used to just. We used to have really great conversations about all kinds of things. And she recommended Susan Cain's book Quiet. Is it the subtext of that? Is it Quiet? The Power of introversion in the world that Can't Stop talking or something.

David Hall [00:08:11]:
That sounds right. Yes.

Louise Miller [00:08:12]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:08:13]:
Great book. I recommend that one too.

Louise Miller [00:08:16]:
Yeah, it was brilliant. And it was such an eye opener and it just kind of. The penny dropped and everything fell into place with why I was the way I was and that there wasn't anything wrong with me. And it was more that the world is not designed for us. So every. You know, things feel more difficult a lot of the time, but that's not something that needs to be fixed. So. Yeah, I was kind of mid-30s probably by the time I'd figured that out.

Louise Miller [00:08:43]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:08:44]:
Yeah, it's. And it's not only that there's nothing wrong with you, but that there's many strengths that you have. What's the strength that you have? Because you're an introvert.

Louise Miller [00:08:56]:
Yeah, you're so right. I'm glad you said that. It is such a powerful thing. I think listening is a really big one. It's being able to listen, being interested in other people. I'm not saying extroverts can't be interested in other people, but I think.

David Hall [00:09:12]:
Right, right.

Louise Miller [00:09:13]:
This kind of. We absorb stuff just from sitting and observing and not needing to take center stage. I. I find that is a really powerful thing. And just the deep thinking that we do and being happy and comfortable in that space, I think is a really powerful thing. I don't know whether you see this, but I think as introverts, I know I certainly do my best thinking kind of behind the scenes, quietly, on my own, until I'm ready to kind of come out and share it with the world. Whereas I think with a lot of extroverts, It's. They're kind of working things out as they're speaking a lot of the time, which was one of the things that I felt was wrong with me because I could see other people doing that, and I was like, well, how come? I don't know what I think.

Louise Miller [00:09:53]:
But actually taking that time away and that step back so we can go really deep, I think is a real benefit in teams in all kinds of situations.

David Hall [00:10:04]:
Yeah, yeah. And as you said, we're. We're not exactly bashing extroverts, but it's, you know, everybody has skills and to be able to talk things out, most of the time, there's benefit there, but we also need the deep thinking that introverts can do, and we need to understand the differences. It's like this is how this person is generally going to process, but here's how David or Louise is going to process, and they're going to come up with some great ideas. Give it some time, you know?

Louise Miller [00:10:35]:
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know whether it's changing, but that in the. Certainly in some of the workplaces I was in was not the way that people went about things, because I think, again, that's just indicative of this need for speed. The whole time. Everyone's in such a hurry. Yeah, yeah.

David Hall [00:10:52]:
It's some of the best. I, you know, I come up with things on the spot. I come up with things instantly. But as I look at big decisions that I've made, some of the best ones came with time, and if I had rushed those, they probably wouldn't have turned out as well. And, you know, there's so many things that have been created and done by the deep thinkers of the world, you know, and it's. It's just an important thing to recognize. And, of course, there's still a lot more work to be done. That's why I do this podcast.

Louise Miller [00:11:19]:
Yeah, yeah. And I think when I think about how my introversion is benefiting my little world with the people that I work with at the moment, I think. And we'll come to this, I'm sure, but a lot of what I do is about creating space for other people to take that time to think as well, because it is so noisy everywhere that I think, whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, having that quiet time just to think and make decisions from a place of intention and clarity is so important. And because that comes so naturally to me, and I think there's something is reflected back to me often that my energy is quite kind of Grounding and calming. I think that element of my introvert personality is serving both me and my business, but also the people that are working with me.

David Hall [00:12:07]:
Yeah, absolutely. And of course on this show we talk about the strengths of introverts but we also bust myths. Is there an introvert myth that you want to bust today?

Louise Miller [00:12:16]:
Yeah, I was thinking about this. I think a big one. I really hope this isn't still doing them doing the rounds, but this idea that introverts don't like people.

David Hall [00:12:26]:
Yeah, yeah, I love people.

Louise Miller [00:12:29]:
I just don't expect me to hold court in a big group of them. I'm not going to be in the center taking center stage, but give me a conversation with people. You know, even in a group I will turn to the person next to me and have a really deep, good conversation with that person. So it's not even that I don't like being in a group of people, it's just finding those one to one contacts and connections in that environment, I think.

David Hall [00:12:52]:
Yeah. So many people tell me, well, David, I can't be an introvert because I like people. Just like you said. I tell them, well, I do too and I am absolutely an introvert. You know, and, and we like to be around people. There's people that we have in our lives that we love, there's people that we need to collaborate, we want to collaborate with and it's just that we may not, there's things that we may not want to do. Constant small talk, we may not want to constantly socialize for the whole day. We need some time, we need time with others, we need time by ourselves.

David Hall [00:13:27]:
And, and we thrive like you're talking about in the small group. We thrive in the one on one. That's where. And so it's, it is very silly that people still say that. Again, that's a big myth that we bust on the show.

Louise Miller [00:13:40]:
Yeah, I'm hoping we're getting past that kind of thinking.

David Hall [00:13:45]:
Yeah, we're still.

Louise Miller [00:13:46]:
Keep fighting the fight.

David Hall [00:13:48]:
Yeah, yeah, keep working on it. So in the work you do, is there any difference in working with introverts versus extroverts in the way that you're approaching productivity and success?

Louise Miller [00:14:01]:
Do you know, my approach is my approach and it's the same whoever I'm working with. But I think we introverts have an advantage because my belief around productivity is that it, like as I've already kind of alluded to, it needs that quiet space and it needs that thinking if we're going to be effective in how we're spending our time. And that comes quite naturally to us as introverts. So I think for us, actually, we're at an advantage because we're already doing that. But yeah, I. I think it's an interesting one because I also know that extroverts find value in my approach because they're not giving themselves. They don't find it easy to give themselves that space. So I'm almost giving them permission to do that.

Louise Miller [00:14:42]:
So does that make sense? There is a difference in how people kind of interact and receive it, but it's the same kind of approach.

David Hall [00:14:49]:
Yeah, no, that's great. So they take some quiet that they may not usually take or even may not even be comfortable doing.

Louise Miller [00:14:58]:
Yeah, and actually. Yeah, absolutely. And it's also giving the introverts permission to do that. If we're feeling like we should be on the go and doing all of the time, it's kind of saying to people like us, no, it's okay. You need to take this space for yourself because that's when you're going to do your best work. So it's giving that permission for everyone, I think.

David Hall [00:15:14]:
Yeah. And. And that's. That's the thing. Like when I was. Where you just were describing yourself, when I was just overwhelmed, when I had too much to do and not enough time to do it, I. I didn't give myself the space, even though now I know that I do such great work when I have some time to think, when I have some time to focus. But that's the thing that we have to help other people understand is, you know what? I'm going to close my door.

David Hall [00:15:43]:
I'm going to get some great work done. I'll see you in a little while, you know. Yeah, and that kind of thing.

Louise Miller [00:15:49]:
And I think one of the reasons that's so challenging, it just feels so countercultural at the moment because certainly in the world that I kind of operate in, kind of small business owners, solo business owners, I just want to banish the word hustle. You know, everyone's talking about having side hustles and you've got to hustle and you've got to just be rushing and getting there quick. And it's. It's no wonder that people feel like they can't be taking that time for themselves because we feel like there's too much to do and we should be somewhere further along by now, and there's this massive hurry to get there. It's really damaging. But, yeah, so if we can give ourselves that space and that permission, it can make a massive Difference and actually it will get you there faster. It's not going to slow you down.

David Hall [00:16:27]:
Yeah, that's, that's, that's it right there. It's like it seems that it, it's not going to work. You know, not hustling, but in fact, as you give yourself space and let you. Your deep thinking occur, because that's a gift that you have as an introvert. You're going to do better.

Louise Miller [00:16:46]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

David Hall [00:16:48]:
So where do you start? With your clients?

Louise Miller [00:16:50]:
Yeah, I always start with vision with my clients. And I know some people don't like that word so we don't have to use it, but just to explain what I mean by that, it's about knowing where you want to get to, like knowing what you want your life to look like, what you want your work or your business to look like. You need to have clarity on that at some level, even if you don't know in 10. I mean, I'm rubbish at thinking what do I want to be doing in 10 years time? I don't know. But ask me like in 12 months time, how do I want to be feeling? I can answer that question. So it's getting some kind of picture in your head, some kind of sense of what you want your life and your business to look and feel like. And we have to start there because if we don't have that clarity, how can we assess whether or not the things we're investing our time and energy on are going to take us in that direction? So, yeah, it's always. Whenever I start working with anyone, it always starts with vision.

Louise Miller [00:17:44]:
At the beginning of every single session, we look back at the vision, we look at the goals, we look at what they're trying to achieve and then kind of go from there, really. And from there it's kind of the process and the approach is the same, but it's very much about helping people find what works for them, rather than saying, do it like this and everything will be marvellous because everyone's different. So it's about helping them figure out what they need to be their most productive.

David Hall [00:18:07]:
Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point. I mean, you know, we're both introverts, but as we get to know each other better, there's probably some things that are common and some things, some approaches would work for you and not for me, you know, and that's. I like that you take that very individualized approach.

Louise Miller [00:18:23]:
Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah.

David Hall [00:18:25]:
And what do you say to the person who's been trying for years to be more Productive and they're just really struggling to stay focused.

Louise Miller [00:18:32]:
The first thing I would say to them is that there is nothing wrong with them because I think, I don't know whether you see this. I know you do a lot of work in this kind of productivity arena as well, but a lot of people are carrying around a lot of self judgment and shame around of this stuff. I see it all the time that yeah, people have tried all of the things to be more productive and if it's not working, they feel like they're a failure and there's something wrong with them. So the thing I want people to know is that no, there is nothing wrong with you. We just haven't figured it out yet. You know, I've got people that I'm working with who have got master's degrees, PhDs, they've had successful management careers and they still struggle on their own when they're removed from that. Because I work with solo business owners, they still, they're struggling to focus on the right things and move the businesses forward because they're just constantly dealing with what, whatever's urgent, whatever's shouting the loudest. And I can see it making them feel really terrible about themselves and their confidence is dipping and it, that just has a knock on effect on everything.

Louise Miller [00:19:30]:
So I, I think there's this feeling that we should be able to figure this out on our own, this productivity thing. We should just be able to somehow magically know how to do it. So I also want to say to people, no, that's not necessarily true either. And what I really want people to know is like we were just saying is that quick fixes and hacks usually don't work and people can spend a lifetime looking for the free download or the book or the thing that is going to magically help everything fall into place. And yes, those things can be helpful, but you really do need to start from self awareness and understanding what works for you and what doesn't. So that when you're reading those books, you can take the pieces that are going to work for you and leave behind the bits that aren't. And just to give a quick example of that as we've kind of skirted around it already. Are you familiar with Gretchen Rubin's work?

David Hall [00:20:19]:
A bit, yes.

Louise Miller [00:20:20]:
Yeah, she's, she's come up with this framework called the four tendencies. I don't know whether you're familiar with that, but it's a way of kind of looking at how we respond to inner and outer expectations. So inner expectations being things that we want to do just for ourselves, like going to the gym or something and outer expectations being something that your boss needs from you or a client or family members expecting. And I just found this. And again, I'm not, I'm not a big fan of putting people in boxes and sticking labels on them and going, that's you fixed. Because it's more complicated than that. But I just find it a really helpful starting point because I think in the world of productivity, accountability is often mooted as the solution that's going to solve everyone's problems. But accountability as a solution only works for one of the four tendencies that Gretchen Rubin identified in her research.

Louise Miller [00:21:11]:
And it's quite a big group of people, but it's not everybody. If you're an obliger, which is what I am, then I need the accountability. But if you are a questioner, accountability is not going to work for you. You need to have a really deep understanding of why you're doing the thing or why you should be doing or need to be, whatever. You need to know why the thing is important, otherwise you're not going to do it. And if you're a rebel, again, accountability is not going to work for you either because you're going to stick two fingers up and go, nope, you're going to rebel against it. And Gretchen has come up with this motto for rebels, which is you can't make me and neither can I. Which I think is really interesting.

Louise Miller [00:21:51]:
And I was working with a guy in his 50s a few years ago who had been trying all of the things to get his productivity under control. And it was only when he realized, and I realized he was a rebel that we understood one. And if it was working and there's different strategies you can kind of approach with that. So that's a very long way of me answering your question. But it's kind of. There's nothing wrong with you if you are struggling. And it's about building that self awareness and getting to know yourself and getting to understand what works for you so that you can stop just grabbing everything and hoping that something's going to stick.

David Hall [00:22:24]:
Yeah. How do people develop more self awareness?

Louise Miller [00:22:30]:
Yeah, I think there's some kind of questions that you can ask and I've got a resource I'm happy to share that will help people with that. But I think it is just paying attention to what has worked for you in the past.

David Hall [00:22:40]:
Yeah.

Louise Miller [00:22:41]:
What you've tried before that didn't work and acknowledge that and know that that's okay. So you don't keep banging Your head against that same brick wall over and over again. I some, I just often think it's helpful to talk it through with someone else. So if you've got someone else in your corner that you can, you know, talk things through with, but, you know, it's fine to get curious and to experiment and to try stuff. But I think doing it from a place of if this doesn't work, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. I just need to go and try something else. But we need to be paying attention for that, which is where slowing down comes back into it. Because if we're just rushing along, you know, in a really harried, frantic way the whole time, we don't leave space for those insights to come through.

Louise Miller [00:23:23]:
And that's why, you know, in Make It Happen Club, I will always, at the beginning of every session say what went well. And we'll just spend just 90 seconds thinking about what's gone well. And then you notice those patterns and it's when you stop and notice that you're building that self awareness, if that makes sense.

David Hall [00:23:39]:
Yeah. And I think what went well is always a great place to start. Too much. Too often we're beating ourselves up about what didn't go well. But really the secret like you're describing is what went well. Let's do more of that.

Louise Miller [00:23:54]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think this is another part of the reason that people give themselves such, such a hard time. We're wired for the negative and we're wired to be fixating on what we haven't done. When if we could just learn to celebrate what we have done by keeping it a dialist at the end of the day or something, you know, however you want to do it, you will realize what, what most people realize is the reason they didn't get everything done is because they were trying to do too much. Not because they're a terrible human, but because they're trying, they're taking too much on. And again, if you don't know that, if you're not noticing that, you can't do anything about it.

David Hall [00:24:31]:
Right, right.

Louise Miller [00:24:32]:
Yeah. Yeah.

David Hall [00:24:34]:
So Louise, you're a fellow podcaster. Tell us about the Unfrazzle podcast.

Louise Miller [00:24:39]:
I love Unfrazzle and I probably shouldn't say that because it's my podcast.

David Hall [00:24:43]:
You should say that.

Louise Miller [00:24:44]:
Yeah, you're asking me. That question's put a big one on my face. Basically. Unfrazzle came into existence in October 2023. It's a solo podcast where I share kind of bite sized nuggets that will help people stop faffing and stay focused. And the reason that I created it is because there are. There are three kind of key things that I believe really passionately and that I believe to be true. First one is that life is richer when we just slow the heck down.

Louise Miller [00:25:12]:
Second one, what we've just talked about. If you find it hard to stay organized, struggle to finish what you start, all of that stuff, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with you. And the third thing is, again, we've talked about it. Getting curious and understanding what works for you is absolutely key to finding the joy in your work. And I feel so passionately about those three things, and I think they can make so such a big difference in people's lives. I wanted to find a way to just share that with more people. So the podcast seemed like a good way of doing that.

Louise Miller [00:25:39]:
And because my people are busy, all the episodes are under 10 minutes long. Again, I've created it in a really introvert friendly way that works for me. It's nice, short episodes. I script them rather than, you know, a lot of extroverts will just press record and start talking. And that will work brilliantly for them, not for me. I have to sit and think about what I'm going to say. But, yeah, I've created it in a way that works for me, which is why I think I've been sticking at it for 18 months now, and I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. But, yeah, people kind of describe it as this sort of pocket of calm in their day.

Louise Miller [00:26:15]:
It's like five, 10 minutes of just a little bit of quiet calm and some things to think about to help them get stuff done without all the overwhelm.

David Hall [00:26:24]:
Yeah, and that's the thing. We have to figure out what works for us. You know, if you need to script your solo episode, great. Do that. I often script my solo episode. I don't script these, but I do prepare. You know, I sent you some questions, and we may get to all of them, we may not. But just, you know, it's important for introverts to know what their preparation is.

David Hall [00:26:49]:
And how do you think that plays into being. Being productive with introverts and preparation?

Louise Miller [00:26:55]:
Yeah, I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier. It's about recognizing that you need space to do your best work and then protecting that for yourself as if your life depended on it. If you do want to do your best work and you don't want to end up the frazzled mess that I was when I ended up quitting my job. And yeah, it's. So it can be a simple. I say it's simple doesn't necessarily mean it's easy. But blocking out the time in your calendar, if you know you've got something coming up that you need to prep for, make sure you're creating space and protecting that space for that thing. Like I protected space yesterday to look through these questions that you'd sent me and make sure I was clear on how, you know, this conversation was going to flow.

Louise Miller [00:27:35]:
If I'd have got back to back meetings yesterday, I'd have landed here today in an absolute state. So I protected that time. And like I said before, you know, some extrovert people can rock up for a workshop, for example, and just wing it. They'd have bullet points and then they'll be good to go and they'll fly and they'll be amazing. I know for me and for many of my introvert clients, that's not going to work. We need to organize ourselves first. I need to do a whole run through of the whole thing so that I can feel confident and comfortable with the timings and be creative. That's how I'm creative in that kind of planning process rather than thinking on my feet.

Louise Miller [00:28:12]:
So. And again, that all comes from experience of knowing, because I think the extent to which we need that preparation and that time is going to be different for everyone. And it will. You need less of that time the more experienced you are. But allowing space for that in your diary and then protecting that time, I think is just really, really key.

David Hall [00:28:30]:
Yeah, yeah. To put things in our calendar. You know, I often say sometimes you need to make appointments with yourself to give yourself time to think, to prepare. And a lot of what we're talking about is just really realizing that we're each wired differently and what works for us. Like, I love public speaking. When I was younger, terrified, I got nervous my voice would shake, all of that. But I learned what you're describing is that I need to prepare ahead of time. You know, I need to think and that that's where the creativity is.

David Hall [00:29:09]:
It's ahead of time. It's. And, and I don't script my speeches, but I really think about, okay, what stories do I want to tell? What, what does this audience need to hear? And it's just a matter of preparation. Whereas my extroverted friend might just get up and having done some preparation because everybody prepares, but not the same way as me. It just gets up and wings it and everybody Loves her and thinks, oh, this is wonderful, but I've learned that that's not going to work for me.

Louise Miller [00:29:39]:
Yeah. And I think it's very easy to think that we're doing it wrong because that what that person just did looked like it was easier. It required less somehow. But it's not true. Can I ask you a question? Actually, David, I'm curious. So this whole time to prepare thing in an environment where there's a lot going on, because I know you're still involved in a kind of workplace where there's a lot happening.

David Hall [00:30:04]:
Yes.

Louise Miller [00:30:05]:
The people in your team, for example, not. I mean, I know you're, you're leading them, so of course they will be okay with this. But is it, does it seem to be accepted now in that kind of environment that people need that sort of space to prepare? Because I know I certainly didn't feel like that was okay when I was in an office environment.

David Hall [00:30:21]:
Yeah. And I think, I think we're coming. I think we've come a long way. You know, a couple things. Like, I. I used to feel like I had to be available to all people at all times. That didn't work. And so I started setting aside the first hour and a half of my day.

David Hall [00:30:39]:
You know, in the environment I'm in, people can add things to my calendar, you know, and I, I just thought, well, can I do this? And it was one of the best things I've ever done because it gave me that time first thing, because I. I'm an early riser, I'm productive, but I'm not ready to talk at 7 in the morning usually, you know, but giving myself that time to think and plan and be strategic was. Was really great also. It's just really important in the workplace to provide agendas ahead of time so people can think about, you know, do I need to. What questions do I want to ask or what points do I want to make? And just taking that time to think about it. And again, we think on our feet. Sure. But most of the time we do better with preparation.

David Hall [00:31:28]:
So there's still some, there's still a lot of work to be done in workplaces allowing space to think and time to prepare. But I think we're doing better in general as a society.

Louise Miller [00:31:42]:
Yeah. And I think the more conversations like this that happen, the more hopefully people who need that will feel able to advocate for themselves and ask for what they need. I think that's important as well because we can't always rely on having a good boss like you, can we? In Those situations.

David Hall [00:31:57]:
Yeah. So, you know, a big part of your approach really is priorities. Let's talk about that a little bit more. You know, how do you help people set priorities? Is there a method behind it? You know, how do people revisit those priorities?

Louise Miller [00:32:14]:
Yeah, I think it's really important that we give again. I keep. I feel like I'm repeating myself, but the space to think, to get those priorities straight. Because if we don't do that, our natural instinct will be to go and do the things that are easy, that are fun, that feel comfortable, or that are urgent, which means the things that are important will never actually get any of our attention. And we do need to be intentional about it. And I think I mentioned this to you when we were chatting before we recorded. There's this thing that I call the progress cycle, which is if we can stay in that cycle, we will make progress. And it starts with the pause, as we've talked about a lot.

Louise Miller [00:32:50]:
And when you're in that pause, that's when you get to reflect, which can be the reflecting on things you've learned, what went well, as we were saying earlier, but it's also looking forward and reflecting on what's coming up so that then you can make a choice which is the next part in the cycle, and you're making that choice about what is most important and what can wait. And then from there, that's when you start taking action, and that's when you will complete what you started and you can keep going around in that cycle. And yeah, the approach that I use for all of that, it just all comes back. Have I mentioned the tree house already? I don't think I have. Have I?

David Hall [00:33:24]:
No, I. I don't think so. No.

Louise Miller [00:33:25]:
Let me talk about the treehouse real quick. If we've got time.

David Hall [00:33:28]:
So, yeah, we've got time.

Louise Miller [00:33:31]:
I love this. So my approach, the way that I work with my clients, is actually called the treehouse method. So basically, just as a quick analogy, if you imagine you're walking around in a forest, your destination's on the other side. You're really excited to get there. But in a forest, there are no straight lines. There's things you can fall over, you know, tree roots, you might trip up muddy puddles, all of that stuff going on. So you've got your eyes on your feet a lot of the time, and you can start to feel like you're going around in circles. And when that's the situation that you're in, it can be tempting just to keep moving, just keep in action.

Louise Miller [00:34:03]:
Keep moving forward. But actually it's far better to lift yourself up. So we go up to the tree house and from that kind of vantage point up in the trees, you get to look down, look back to where you've been and realize actually you've come further than you thought. You can look down all the obstacles that were getting in your way and try and figure out your way through. And you can look ahead to where you're going, just to remind yourself of what lies on the other side. And from that kind of place of perspective and distance, that's when you get to make those better choices, make those good decisions, get those priorities straight in your mind, which quite often will involve having to say no to some stuff, which is very difficult for a lot of people, so that when you climb back down onto the forest floor, you can start moving forward again. So I talk about that analogy quite a lot because I think it's just helpful to see how if you're stuck in the weeds, you just need to lift yourself back up again. But in terms of how, I then work with people to help them sort out their priorities and get their plans straight, because essentially that's what I'm helping people with.

Louise Miller [00:35:03]:
I help people create plans for themselves. There's six pillars that underpin everything that I do with my clients. And those are space, which we've spoken about. Alignment, which is about that vision piece knowing what you want your life to look like. So you can make sure that the plan and the priorities you're choosing are aligned with that life friendly, which is because there is only one of you and you've got a life and your work. And if we're expecting that two things can exist completely separate from each other, you're kind of asking for trouble. Because if there's something big going on in your life so you need to suddenly care for a sick relative or something that is going to impact your energy and your capacity for work. So I've always got an eye on that with people as we're doing their plans and looking at their priorities.

Louise Miller [00:35:49]:
So that's a life friendly piece we've got. Achievable is another one of the pillars. Because what we don't do is just a brain dump and then call that a plan, because it's not. That's just emptying your head out on a piece of paper. We take our time with all of this thinking and prioritizing and planning so that what you've got in your hand is going to be really doable. The next one is rhythm, because this is not a one and done thing. You can't take space once and then expect you're going to be good for the next six months. We need to build it into our rhythm, so we need to create that space for ourselves on the regular so that we can make sure that we're adjusting as things are just around us.

Louise Miller [00:36:31]:
And then the last one is that the way that I work with people is rooted in neuroscience. So it's about getting your subconscious mind on board as well as your conscious mind. And I'm an NLP practitioner as well as the work that I do with productivity. So I weave in some elements of that, just making sure that you're setting yourself up for success in the best possible way. And when all of that comes together, I know that might feel quite abstract, but I'm hoping that there's stuff that I've shared there that people can kind of latch onto and go, oh, I'm not thinking about that in quite the right way. I need to make some shifts and adjustments because that is when you will find yourself making plans you will actually achieve. And for me, the reason I love what I do isn't because it's helping people get stuff done necessarily, although it does. It's that through the getting stuff done, they are growing in confidence and letting go of this lifelong belief that they can't finish what they start.

Louise Miller [00:37:23]:
And they're this productivity failure and they're carrying around all of this baggage. And I see the change in people when they start to realize they can actually get stuff done and they can take their business where they want it to go. And that's what I really love. Sorry, I got all excited about that.

David Hall [00:37:38]:
No, that was wonderful. So, couple things.

Louise Miller [00:37:41]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:37:42]:
So when we're actually accomplishing, you're saying we can get more confidence in our ability. Right. To accomplish more, accomplish the right things.

Louise Miller [00:37:54]:
100%. I see really capable people who are brilliant at what they do, but because they've got so many ideas flying at them the whole time, my people, my clients, real creative ideas generators, and they're all half finished over time. And that's the pattern that you keep seeing repeating and you're not making the progress you want to make, you will start to doubt yourself and think you're not capable. And it's not true. So once I can help people or you can help, you know, we can help people find a way of getting stuff done that works for them. And they're getting stuff done and they're taking a minute to pause and notice that they're getting stuff done. Because that's another thing people don't do. They just keep plowing on without celebrating the small wins.

Louise Miller [00:38:35]:
Yeah. It makes a massive difference to people's confidence and their self esteem and then what they're able to go on and achieve in the future.

David Hall [00:38:41]:
And then just talk to us a little bit more about that rhythm. Like, how often are people going into that tree house is probably going to differ for everybody, but how often are you revisiting your priorities?

Louise Miller [00:38:52]:
Yeah. So at the very least, I think people ought to be giving themselves that space monthly, because that's enough. That seems like it's often enough that if things have started to go a bit off track, you can rein yourself back in. Before you go completely off on a tangent, if you only do it every three months, three months is a long time to have been going slightly off in the wrong direction. So I would say at least every month. And I also think it's about how long you spend in that space as well in the treehouse. Because if you only go in there for five minutes, you're not going to get a huge amount out of it. So the planning sessions, I guide people through with 90 minutes for a reason, because we go it, you know, it encompasses all of those pillars.

Louise Miller [00:39:33]:
But I also think that we can take these little moments in the treehouse many times a day if we want to, and we can just take those little micro moments. If we start to feel ourselves getting overwhelmed, we can take a step back and just pull ourselves up for a minute and go, right, what am I trying to achieve? And just remind yourself what your intention was. Try and work out whether everything you're doing is actually doable. Is there anything you want to let go of and just make some choices in that moment that will allow you to move forward with intention? So we can do it every month. We can do it at the start of every week, do it at the start of every day, at the end of every day, during the day. The more we can pause, in my opinion, the more productive we will be. Because productivity is what happens before you take action in my book.

David Hall [00:40:20]:
Yes, well said on that. Yeah. So it's not just once a year, right?

Louise Miller [00:40:26]:
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And people get so excited in January, writing a vision and coming up with goals that then get shoved in a drawer and never looked at again.

David Hall [00:40:34]:
Yeah.

Louise Miller [00:40:34]:
So, yeah, it's not that.

David Hall [00:40:37]:
And again, you know, people might think taking a pause, well, you're not getting anything done, but really it's what's we've seen is the Most effective is stepping back. And I think monthly. I like that cadence, you know, where you're doing some deep work, where you're giving yourself some space. I also really love the weekly at the beginning of the week, the end of the week. But I like how you're saying anytime that you need to.

Louise Miller [00:41:04]:
Yeah, yeah. I think we do think that we're not being productive if we take that break and take that moment away. But how productive are you being if your head is swimming and spinning and you're completely overwhelmed by staring at your inbox? You're not actually doing anything, chances are. So taking a step away just to regroup before you really spin out of control. I talk about this kind of frantic and frazzled overwhelm loop that gets superimposed on that progress cycle I was talking about before with the pause, reflect, choose. That makes it impossible to think straight when you're in that cycle. So we need to. The only way out of the frantic and frazzled overwhelm loop is through the pause.

David Hall [00:41:45]:
Yes. Take the pause.

Louise Miller [00:41:47]:
Yeah. Yeah.

David Hall [00:41:49]:
Louise, this has been a wonderful conversation. Is there anything else you want to add today?

Louise Miller [00:41:54]:
Oh, I think we've given people lots to think about. Thank you. I feel like I've said everything that I wanted to say, so. Yeah, thank you, David.

David Hall [00:42:01]:
Yeah. So make your priorities. Don't be afraid to take some time to pause, find out what you need. This has been wonderful.

Louise Miller [00:42:11]:
Thanks for having me, David.

David Hall [00:42:13]:
Yep. And of course, where can people find out more about you and the great work that you do?

Louise Miller [00:42:17]:
Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I think as you're here, must mean that you like podcasts. So go find unfrazzle if you feel like you want 10 minutes maximum 10 minutes of little moments of calm in your day. And also I mentioned a free resource earlier if people want to kind of dive into that journey of self awareness and figuring out what works for them. It's called the holy grail of productivity, and that is@Louisemiller.uk Holy Grail. You can go and get that there. It's completely free.

Louise Miller [00:42:45]:
Yeah. And come and connect with me on LinkedIn as well. I love to hang out with people on LinkedIn.

David Hall [00:42:50]:
All right, thanks again. I will add all that to the show notes.

Louise Miller [00:42:53]:
Thank you.

David Hall [00:42:55]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:43:34]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.