Ep 233 - Embracing Public Speaking as an Introvert with guest Jenn Espinosa-Goswami

Have you ever wondered if being an introvert means public speaking isn’t for you? In this thought-provoking episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with Jenn Espinosa-Goswami—ICF certified public speaking coach and founder of Weightless LLC—to show that not only can introverts succeed on stage, they can truly shine.

Whether you’re curious about how introverts prepare for speeches, looking for ways to engage any audience (even virtually), or want to find YOUR unique speaking style, this conversation is packed with practical tips and empowering stories. Jenn and David bust common myths, explore the strengths introverts bring to public speaking, and share actionable strategies for building your signature speech and finding the right speaking opportunities for your lifestyle.

Listen in to discover:

• The “three E’s” that make a presentation memorable: Entertain, Educate, and Engage
• How stories (especially your own!) can make your message truly resonate
• Why it’s important to lean into your strengths and create a preparation process that works for YOU
• Encouragement for anyone who feels called to speak, but worries their voice won’t get heard

Tune in for inspiration, expert insights, and practical advice that will boost your confidence on any stage—and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/233

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami is an ICF-certified public speaking coach and Founder of Weightless LLC. A former Toastmasters International officer and graduate of the Masters of Leadership program at Augsburg  University, Jenn helps leaders speak more clearly, consistently and confidently on stage to increase their impact and income. Over the past 10 years, Jenn has presented to thousands of executives and entrepreneurs, and was recognized by Influence Digest as top 15 coaches in Minneapolis. Prior to starting her company, Jenn served as a certified fraud examiner for 16 years within Fortune 500 financial companies.

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Connect with Jenn on socials: LinkedIn | YouTube |

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David Hall

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Transcript

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:00:00]:
One thing I would say is if you feel the itch and the desire to speak, listen to it. There is a stage for you. There's a stage for everyone. It may not be the same stage as mine or David's, but there is a stage for you and there's a platform for you to share what's on your heart. So if you're feeling the desire to share what's on your heart, know that there's an audience waiting to hear from you.

David Hall [00:00:32]:
Hello and welcome to episode 233 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David hall, and the creator of Quietestrong.com this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we all each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast, and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Jen Espinoza Goswami is an ICF certified Public Speaking coach and founder of Waitlist llc. A former Toastmaster International Officer and graduate of the Masters of Leadership Program at Augsburg University, Jen helps leaders speak more clearly, consistently and confidently on stage to increase their impact and income.

David Hall [00:01:30]:
Over the past 10 years, Jen has presented to thousands of executives and entrepreneurs and was recognized by Influence digest as top 15 coaches in Minneapolis. Prior to starting her company, Jen served as a certified fraud examiner for 16 years within Fortune 500 financial companies. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Jen. Jen, so good to have you on today.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:01:58]:
Hey, David, let's have a great conversation today.

David Hall [00:02:00]:
Yeah, we're going to. I know that. So we're going to get into the work you do around public speaking. Tell us a little bit about yourself, like your journey to the work that you're doing now.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:02:12]:
Well, it's the winding road, of course. I think many entrepreneurs who've been guests here have shared a little bit about that, but I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. When I was growing up, my very first job that I wanted to be was probably a vet, followed by a psychologist. I used to study dream interpretation from Carl Jung just for fun. In sixth grade. I remember doing that in sixth grade when my sisters were going to college. So I always had a lot of different interests and, and eventually I got to college, I took Psychology 101 and I'm like, I don't like this. This is not for me.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:02:49]:
So when I graduated, I had a degree in Global Studies and German. I'm a part of Polyglot, so I love language. I studied Spanish, French in high school, and I took on German in college and decided, why not major in this? Because I did a study abroad experience. My intention was to go into the Foreign Service and be an ambassador to the embassy and help, you know, Americans abroad with travel documentation and all of the things that could happen abroad. I failed out of the test, so I did not progress into that. And I happened to find job at a mortgage company locally here in Minneapolis. And I said, sure, let me just try that out. Twelve years later, I was a certified fraud examiner.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:03:34]:
And I really liked the world of investigations. As somebody who loves, you know, data and analysis and things like that, it kind of fulfilled certain needs of mine until my boss came up to me and said, you know, Jen, you need to work on some professional development outside of your core duties at work. What do you want to do? And so I looked around at my campus there at Wells Fargo, and there happened to be a Toastmasters group. Now, I wasn't new to public speaking. I had done debate in high school. I had done some public speaking in college when I was sharing about my study abroad experience and why everybody and anybody should go study abroad because it's so fun. And so I'm like, okay, I'll just join this Toastmasters group and see what comes of it. And that planted the seed for the business that I run today, which is called Waitlist Now.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:04:23]:
Initially, I started my company as a health transformation speaking company because my signature story at the time was that I had lost 100 pounds in one year with no products or supplements. And when I started sharing that story in Toastmasters, people reacted to, to what I was sharing. And I think that was the first time in my life that I realized I can make an impact through just my story, through just sharing words with people I know and like. It took me several years before I designed my company and realized that people get paid to speak and that is a business model that I could learn to do. So I took on a mentor and started my company. Now, during the pandemic, my physical health wasn't where I wanted it to be. I regained some of the weight I had been maintaining for 20 years through a couple children, through building my family, through working corporate inside hustling with my business. And I said, well, I don't really want to do physical health related topics anymore.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:05:28]:
I had built some client Base and income for through virtual speaking in the pandemic. I was actually very fortunate to have paid virtual speaking maintain my business throughout the pandemic. But I no longer wanted to speak about health related topics topics. So I said, well, what am I really, really passionate about at this stage of my life? Public speaking coaching. Because I became a certified coach through ICF during the pandemic as well. And I said, well, I want to help other coaches show up more powerfully and grow their impact and income. And the thing that did it for me was public speaking. So let me help others figure this out quicker than I did.

David Hall [00:06:08]:
Yeah. So it didn't start out that you intended to be a public speaking coach, but you were told you need some professional development. Could have been lots of things probably, and then you just fell into it and loved it. Is that about right?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:06:25]:
Yeah, I guess I was pretty good at it based on the feedback and winning a few speech contests here and there. People were like, hey Jen, you're really good at this thing. Like, okay, I'm good at it and it's fun. What else can I do with it?

David Hall [00:06:38]:
Yeah, it also, you're a fellow introvert. What have you learned about introversion and how does that relate to public speaking?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:06:47]:
So funny thing about introversion, the very first time I took one of those MBTI tests was in college and I tested as an intj, which is not very common. I think there were like 7% of people. And I'm please, if I misquote, please let me know and correct me if you know better. But I was like, okay, I'm an introvert. Cool. But then I took the same MBTI five years later and I tested an estj. I'm like, well, that's curious. So am I introverted? Am I extroverted? What am I really? And I think what it boils down to is I'm yin and yang in the same time.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:07:27]:
So I'm introverted, of course, but I also can release the extroverted side of me. But ultimately when you think about it, like I need to recharge like an introvert, but I can and sometimes do show up like an extrovert. So I don't know if that's me being nurtured through life and being putting myself in situations as a business owner where I have to network, I have to meet people all the time. And maybe that made me more extroverted over time. I'm not really sure what, what the answer is there. And I know there's a, there's a middle Ground of an ambivert. But I think I can flex both sides. I guess you could call me a chameleon in that sense where I'm comfortable in either arena when I take care of myself.

David Hall [00:08:11]:
Yeah. So I'm a fellow intj and it is kind of rare. And there could be lots of reasons for you getting different answers on the test. To me, the definition of introversion recharging doesn't make me an introvert. It's. I need to recharge because I am an introvert. And my main definition is that we're internal processors. You know, we're tuned inward to our inner world, our imaginations, more often than not.

David Hall [00:08:37]:
And so, yeah, when I describe introversion extroversion, you'll hear me say things like, generally, because there's not a definite. I always act like this. I will say that I don't call activities extroverted. I just. I think I'm an introvert. How do I need to approach public speaking? And I told you before we hit record that I love it. It's fun. I don't get nervous, but I'm still an introvert because I think deeply and I have to prepare differently than I've noticed that my extroverted colleagues and friends do.

David Hall [00:09:09]:
And then after, I need to plan. Do I need a break after this?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:09:15]:
Yeah. And it's. It's interesting because I'm a person who can go off the cuff. And I don't know if that's just my experience with public speaking. I've been speaking for over 15 years now. Professionally, I am a master at time management. So I know exactly what I'm going to say and how I'm going to say it. But sometimes I say it differently, depending, because I very much feed from the energy in my audience, even virtually.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:09:39]:
And one of my super strengths is engaging folks. So. But I still need. If I'm in the room with 300 people and it's a full day of me being on and talking and schmoozing and all of those good things. I definitely need at least 24 hours of downtime after that. But I'm very. And I still get nervous before I speak. No matter how many times I speak, I still get nervous.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:10:03]:
And I think that's a sign of. You really care.

David Hall [00:10:05]:
Yeah, yeah. And I will say that because I say that I don't in general. And some people say, well, I always do and I always have, but it's. It could be different for everybody. So introverts aren't always the best at thinking on their Feet. But the things that we're expert in. It may appear to be off the cuff, but it's really like we've done the thinking. So anyway, that's an interesting difference.

David Hall [00:10:31]:
So how did you decide then to become a coach?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:10:34]:
Coaching fulfills that need in me to go deep with people. I hate small talk, I hate, hey, how's the weather, how, how is your relative? I hate all of that. And I think that's why networking is somewhat painful for me. Because you're in a room and you have to meet a bunch of people and I'm just like, I don't know what to talk about. I'd rather talk about politics or religion or all of the things that you're not supposed to be talking about. So. So when I'm in a coaching scenario, I get to listen because one of the main skills of a coach is to be an active listener. But it's not about my agenda either.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:11:10]:
And that fulfills a need in me that's been a lifelong thing. I've always been the listener, I've always been the person who reflects back to others. And so it's just a natural skill I've always had. And I also get to cheer people on. Which is so fun about coaching is when I'm speaking, I'm presenting information and it's great to share information, but really what matters to me is what are my people who are listening, what do they want to do with it, if anything? Like, I don't want to control what they do with it, but I very much am curious to hear what they want to do with it. And so coaching is kind of the follow up from what do they want to do with this? Is there something they want to go deeper into? And let's go there.

David Hall [00:11:53]:
Yeah, for sure. So when it comes to public speaking, what makes a great speech?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:11:59]:
You could go a couple different routes with this. But what I would say ultimately is if you want to be a good speaker, maybe a great speaker who consistently books stages, you need to entertain, you need to educate, and you need to engage your audience. The three E's. If you're not doing all three, then you're probably a good speaker. You know, you might, you might be invited back to other stages. You might be invited to show up and share your expertise. But if you do all three, then you can make a career of it. And not everyone wants to make a career of public speaking.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:12:37]:
Maybe you just want to share some inspiration or you want to speak out in your community about injustices. There. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're doing just a motivational speech, you only need to fulfill one of those three targets. The education, the entertainment, or the engagement. And depending on what your audience is, one of those is probably most appropriate. But when you can do all three with the same content and deliver it in multiple formats on different stages, that's when you are really a great speaker.

David Hall [00:13:08]:
Yeah. So everybody doesn't necessarily like you're saying, want to do that, but this can transition into giving a presentation, you know, speaking up in a meeting. These skills you can take to those areas too.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:13:25]:
Absolutely. And that's when it would be most appropriate to focus on do I want to engage or do I want to educate? You know, if you're in a highly technical field, you probably want to educate people who are not as technical as you. If you're a person who is a manager and is trying to lead a team, you probably want to engage your team so they feel like they're on the same page as you, you know. So those things are very important as well.

David Hall [00:13:50]:
Yeah, I like that. The three E's, could you break them down just a little bit? Each one like a little bit. What, what do you mean by that?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:13:58]:
Yeah, so let's start with entertainment. So that's what you might think of or what might come to mind when you think about keynote speakers. Right. Mel Robbins, Tony Robbins, they're earning tens of thousands of dollars to speak. They're probably entertaining folks who are out there. There might be some element of education as well, but they're high energy, high octane, they've got best selling books, they have multiple TED talks, and they make a living as it, it's part of their platform. So entertaining could mean a lot of different things. It doesn't mean they have to be super charismatic, but it means they have to provide a, a deeper level of storytelling than your traditional speaker.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:14:41]:
So not someone who has a speechwriter writing for them necessarily, because they don't always have a speechwriter, but someone who's really good at metaphor, someone who's really good at description, someone who's good at taking very complex information and making it simple for the average audience. Those are people who are really good entertainers. There might be some element of racing across the stage or sharing props or something a little bit unusual. I do know a speaker who goes on stage in roller skates. There's all sorts of different types of performance elements you can bring to it as an entertainer, but those are some examples for entertainment. Now, education is what you might think of as people who speak at breakout sessions within an annual conference within a certain industry. They could be people who are offering workshops either virtual or in person at a company retreat or an organization or a non profit. And those tend to be be the people who go deep into the content.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:15:39]:
So my introverts might really appreciate the workout kind of format where it's heavy on the education, it's heavy on the how. There's probably at least a few tangible action steps you can take where regardless of whether you ever see that speaker again, you will be able to take some of that information and implement it. So that would be more of the education piece of it. And then we have our engagers. Now people who are really good at engagement might be improv folks, comedians, people who both feed off the energy of the audience, but also appreciate that it's a conversation they're having with the audience. It's not just a, a formal presentation or a talking head kind of situation. It's a conversation. And they incorporate ways to get the audience involved.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:16:28]:
And not always the audience is verbally contributing to the conversation. It might be raising hands, stomping their feet, getting up and talking to the neighbor. There are many different ways to engage your audience, but people who are really good at engaging really need that back and forth, forth. In fact, a lot of speakers really suffered with this piece of it. If they're high on the engagement level, like they might need the experience, they might need feedback from the audience. And those are things that we didn't get a lot of during virtual speaking because a lot of people have their cameras off. A lot of people barely visit the chat. It's hard to engage a virtual audience.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:17:06]:
So people who are really high on engagement maybe quit speaking at that time because it was really difficult to get that feedback. And they thrive upon the feedback. Like what's working? What do people like? What do people really resonate with? Those are important questions to answer for the engaging speaker.

David Hall [00:17:23]:
Yeah, so you bring up something interesting. I struggle with engaging the virtual audience sometimes because you don't see their body language, you don't see their faces. I mean, their faces may all be on the screen, but it's not the same as being in person. So what advice do you have for presenting and engaging with the virtual audience?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:17:46]:
Bring in elements of facilitation. So facilitation, facilitators are presenters. It's all public speaking. If you have some content to share and there's more than one person who's listening to you, it's still public speaking. But Facilitation is a different skill set than just delivering a presentation. Facilitators build in. It's all about going through a process together. So they're really good at engaging their folks.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:18:15]:
Now, some of the techniques I use when I do virtual engagements, again, I do a lot of them. I mean, it depends on what platform you're using, but usually there's, you know, chat tools, there are polling questions you can prepare ahead of time. And that's through having really great conversations before the event starts with the person who brings you on. To facilitate that content, you just ask them deeper questions about what are some of the struggles folks in the room are having? How many people will be showing up? Can we do breakout rooms where people can have, you know, smaller, more intimate conversations? And then I, as the facilitator, bring them back to the room and ask for reflection. A lot of coaches are really good at engaging their folks, even virtually. But you're right, it's not easy if you can't see your people. I sometimes offer scavenger hunts during virtual presentations where I say, hey, look around in your space. Can you.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:19:08]:
For example, one of the things I did for my, my movement maximizers presentation when I was doing health related presentations is I'd say, hey, you don't need to buy a fancy set of weights for a hundred dollars. Look around your immediate workspace right now and find one item that is heavier than a purse. Sorry, guys, like heavier than, you know, heavy wallets, heavier than a few pounds. Find one item, bring it back, and then when you're ready, share on camera what that item is. And everyone participates in that activity. So there are plenty of things you can do. One of my friends even said at National Speakers association, they said they offer virtual cookies to people who answer the questions, respond in the chat, go off audio and unmute themselves. There are many ways to incentivize people to engage, even virtually.

David Hall [00:20:00]:
Oh, very good. You also talk about having speaker presence. What does that mean and how do you do it?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:20:07]:
It's kind of like your aura or your energy. So all of us show up a certain way. As soon as you walk into a room, people feel that. Now, some people feel it in a negative way, that's okay. But you move in a certain way and you show up in a certain way. And so some of the clients I work with who don't feel terribly confident, their body language may be shut down, their shoulders will be in, their heads will be down. I get folks to open up, to open up their shoulders, to put their Chest high to keep their chin up, things like that. So we all have a natural way of being and sometimes that's stimmied a little bit, depending on how nervous we are or how unprepared we are.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:20:53]:
But the more we prepare and the more we ground ourselves. I personally do pre speaking rituals that involve grounding because I speak really fast and sometimes my audiences need me to slow down and the best way for me to do that is to ground myself. But it's just the energy with which you show up. So for example, David, if you think about. Let me think of a person, Brene Brown, have you ever heard her speak?

David Hall [00:21:20]:
Yeah, she's an introvert.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:21:22]:
How would you describe her energy or her presence?

David Hall [00:21:25]:
I mean, definitely she's a powerful speaker.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:21:30]:
I would say she's very, she supports everything she shares, like facts and data and statistics. Studies, research is very important for what she brings forward to the table. I wouldn't say she's comedic or funny. She's quite serious in her demeanor. So her speaker presence is. I am an expert who brings facts and figures to support this and I can share it with you in a way that feels accessible for people who are not academic. So her presence is confident, her confidence is. I'm an expert on this.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:22:07]:
And her presence is not excitable, but very calm and focused is how I would describe that. So that's just one example of a speaker presence.

David Hall [00:22:17]:
Yeah. And I mean, she definitely shares some thought provoking ideas that really make you think very much. Okay. And you know, along, along these lines, you know, we bust myths on this show. And so one of the myths that we bust is that, you know, some people think introverts can't be great public speakers, which is not true. And you know, many, many great public speakers are introverts. You know, like you mentioned Tony Robbins and Mel Robbins. Mel Robbins is an introvert.

David Hall [00:22:48]:
Tony Robbins? I don't think so.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:22:51]:
Probably not.

David Hall [00:22:52]:
He's probably an extrovert. But you know, there's, there's or you know, Brene Brown, you just mentioned introvert. So it's definitely introverts or extroverts can make great public speakers. But my question for you is, do you notice that the preparation is any different for introverts versus extroverts?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:23:11]:
Let's put it out there that in order to be consistently speaking, you have to deliver a consistent experience. So regardless of what you're trying to do, whether entertain, educate or engage, if you can't deliver the same experience from one audience to the other, you're not going to make it in this industry at all in public speaking. So I'll put that out there that everyone needs to prepare, everyone needs to rehearse. I did a survey the other day on my LinkedIn community and I said, well, how often do you practice before you get up on the big stage for the booking that you, you, you got with that stage? And the average person said, oh, a few times. I would argue that to be a professional and to do it well, you would need at least 10 times to rehearse. And some people are different. So introverted folks might not feel comfortable with just practicing a few times. Some introverts want to memorize the entire script, know sideways, forward, backwards, the whole thing, and be able to recite it in their sleep before they show up on stage because otherwise they would feel like they're not prepared.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:24:19]:
Now, I'm not one of those kinds of speakers. I don't believe in scripting myself. Again, I use a format, and this is something that I share in my signature speech template. But I use organizational format. And I encourage folks to mix and match different stories, case studies, and examples as part of how they deliver the speech. But the flow in which you do that can and does shift. It doesn't always have to be delivered in the exact same way. It just needs to evoke the same experience within your audience.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:24:49]:
And so that boils down to the emotional elements that you're including within the flow of your presentation. But preparation is a very personal thing. And that's why I love coaching the people that I coach, because I have some people who say, jen, I'm not resting until I memorize every single word and can walk across the stage and stage everything appropriately. Cool. If that's what makes you feel prepared and ready to deliver what you're delivering, awesome. I have other people who say, and please don't do this. I'm gonna wing it, Jen. No, professionals don't wing it.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:25:24]:
You will still have to know your content inside and out. Otherwise you're just not going to be able to deliver on the three E's.

David Hall [00:25:32]:
Okay. And it's, it's interesting because I also don't, I can't script, but I do make, like an outline. And I definitely, you know, once I do my initial outline, I let it roll around in my head and I come up with ideas and capture them as I'm doing other stuff. But it's. I like that you're saying you have to figure out what works for you.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:25:57]:
And I'm all about helping people lean into their strengths. I'm not going to tell you. This is how I develop a speech, so this is how you have to do it. I'm not that type of coach. Everyone that I work with has their own creative process, and if I try to insert my own ways into their creative process, it's going to. It's going to stop their creativity, it's going to stop their ability to perform, and it is a performance at the end of the day. So I want my clients to feel like they can lean into what they're really strong at, and their creative process is their own. I'm not trying to change it.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:26:29]:
I will make suggestions in terms of how to make it easier to memorize things if that's something that they want to do.

David Hall [00:26:35]:
Yeah, I love that because it's really. On this show, we talk a lot about strengths, and no introvert is exactly the same. No introvert or extrovert. We all have different strengths, different needs. So it's finding what works best for you and do it that way and not maybe what your friend is doing very much.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:26:54]:
I'm very visual, so I usually start with slides. I don't write a script. I don't even do a proper outline. I mean, when you come up with your signature speech, you have to do like an outline because you have to identify some audience takeaways. So that's kind of your outline. But I go to slides from that, and not every presentation I deliver, I use slides. But I want to engage folks who are visual learners like I am, and just listening to me talk is not going to engage them. So I include slides for those who learn a different way.

David Hall [00:27:27]:
Yeah, yeah. That's the thing. And our audience is going to be different types of learners as well. And trying to figure all that out.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:27:36]:
It's a fun process for sure.

David Hall [00:27:37]:
Yeah. And then how does the speaker lifestyle fit for introverts?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:27:45]:
One of the things that was really important to me when I started my speaker journey is in the beginning. I got it wrong, I got it twisted. I thought that I was going to be like Mel Robbins, you know, I was going to be on the big stages with thousands of people in front of me, big TV screens with my face all over the place. And I'm realizing having done this for quite a few years is that's not really the ideal stage for me. And I don't want to be the road warrior who is on the road flying every place in the country and abroad. I don't want to leave my family for weekends, for entire weeks. I Want to be there for my family. And I realize I get to create my journey the way I want it to be.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:28:29]:
And those are the kinds of clients I also work with. So if you're someone who's like, well, I like travel, but I travel for. For personal reasons, not for business reasons. I don't want to be in airports all day long. I don't want to be lugging a bunch of suitcases around and trying to figure out how to plug into local AV tech and all that good stuff. You don't have to have that lifestyle to be a speaker. There are still plenty of virtual speaking engagements where you don't have to wear pants or shoes if you don't want to. I haven't worn heels in years.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:28:59]:
Yeah, Yeah, I don't want to wear heels anymore. You know, we have a different lifestyle now where we can choose what that looks like. We can choose the format in which we deliver our best work. And for some of us, it's not the big stages with the handheld mic and all those things. Now, I'm not saying there's no place for that, because you can certainly build that into what you're doing, but maybe you travel four times a year as opposed to 48 times a year. You know, would that produce a better lifestyle for you? I know it does for me.

David Hall [00:29:31]:
Yeah. And again, it's, what do you want? What's your goals? You know, do you want to do that much travel, or do you want to find more local opportunities? You know what? You know what, what's important to you? And. And what do you need to have the success that you want to have?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:29:50]:
And I love helping people figure out that right mix of speaking opportunities for them, because I don't just do one kind of speaking, and I anticipate that other people won't just do one kind either. You get to mix and match it and customize it and make it look like however it needs to look.

David Hall [00:30:06]:
Yeah, absolutely. So I downloaded your signature speech template. You want to talk a little bit more about that?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:30:15]:
Yeah. So one of the biggest challenges people have before they start speaking, a lot of people say, hey, Jen, I want to speak. I'm like, great. How often do you want to speak? And they don't have an answer for that. I know. I didn't in the beginning either. I'm like, I'll just speak anywhere that will bring me on stage. And the less intentional you are about starting your journey, the more dissatisfied you'll be with the early stages that you book, and that's okay.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:30:40]:
You know, part of it is iterative, and you learn through some of those early stages. But I want you to be really intentional with how you show up. So the signature speech template identifies for you. What are your goals with speaking? I have some clients who say, jen, I want to earn at least $8,000 per presentation I deliver, and I want to do it once a month. Cool. Your strategy might be a little bit different than suppose David, who is doing podcast guest hosts and showing up in different places, but maybe you don't care if you get paid to speak, but you want to sign clients or sell more books or things like that. That's totally cool, too. It's a different strategy.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:31:21]:
So I want you to be very intentional about what you're doing before you jump in, because there's a lot to learn about this business. I certainly have learned my hard lessons over the years, so. And it also gives you an idea as well of how to engage your audience. So if you agree with David, where he's like, well, engagement is difficult, especially with those virtual opportunities, there's some ideas for engagement in that template as well, and a brief organizational structure for how you can get started with that signature speech. So I know you know how to make speeches. People have been doing it for years and years, even if you're busting out your high school textbooks and things like that. But do you really know how to deliver that same speech in 15 minutes, all the way up to 90 minutes, using the same structure? This template will help you with that.

David Hall [00:32:08]:
Awesome. And, you know, we definitely talked about some of the things on here, but in here, you say you should have three main points, but also have stories to support those points. So talk about that, like how. How important are stories and storytelling? In our speeches, we're trying to think.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:32:26]:
Of any lessons that we learned as children that did not involve some element of story. So think about, you know, everything from the Bible to fables to nursery rhymes. Miss Mary, quite contrary. Some of the cartoons that we grew up with, they're all stories because as human beings, we access information in many different ways. But stories are a very powerful way for us to connect to each other and to learn things that, you know. You don't want to be hit over the head with a lesson necessarily, but you learn through examples that other people are sharing. I certainly learned a lot from the stories my siblings would share with me, and I chose different paths than my siblings because of the stories they shared about growing up and things like that. So story is how we connect as human beings.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:33:18]:
And you probably are already naturally using story and everything you do. It's just a different way of organizing your thoughts when you're speaking the story as opposed to writing it.

David Hall [00:33:31]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're built for stories, just like you said. You know, our. Our favorite movies are built on a great story, and they all have a.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:33:42]:
Very similar story arc. I mean, yeah, you've heard this from books like Story Brand by Donald Miller, but they're. They all follow the same formula, and it's a formula that we feel comfortable with and that we can follow along with and is easy to understand. You want to make it easy for your audience.

David Hall [00:34:00]:
Yeah. And I think sometimes people, I don't know if it's introverts more than extroverts, but don't think that people want to hear their stories. And maybe they're giving that presentation or speech and sharing the information. But I know that when I realized the value of stories, my ability to give a good speech or presentation just changed drastically. Because before I kind of felt like, oh, people don't want to hear my stories. You know, it's more about, I need to share this point with them. But, you know, maybe not with the story.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:34:37]:
Yeah, if you don't have a story with a point, it just feels like somebody's directing you to think or do something. And we don't always respond well as human beings to being told what to do or what to think. So a story is an access point for some people. And it's easier to imagine that you can be the hero of your own story when somebody's sharing their story with you. For example, when I lost all that weight, I thought that, you know, if I could do it, anyone can do it. And that's ultimately what my audience was recognizing was there was nothing unique about me, necessarily. And the way in which I was sharing that information with them allowed them to access the same learning points without having to do it exactly the way I did it. I don't want Mini Me's out there, but I want my audience to have their own hero story.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:35:28]:
And so I was providing them the process to get there. Not necessarily because they had to do everything I was doing, because everyone's unique. A lot of my clients didn't follow the same process I did, but they did follow the same steps. And that's the important thing. I'm really big on organization of your content, and the before and after is really important. So if you can't help your audience see that. And again, I'm very visual, so it's Always going to be a C reference. But if they can't see that, then they don't know how to be the hero of their own story.

David Hall [00:36:02]:
Yeah. And I hear this topic a lot around public speaking is it's, you're not the hero. You know, it's not about you. It's about helping people see themselves as the hero and relating to the story that you're sharing.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:36:16]:
Yeah. It's a humbling experience. Right. Because we're going up there and being very vulnerable and sharing things in our own life that maybe we wouldn't have wanted to share publicly. But we feel so passionate about what we're doing, that and we understand that it's not really about us. It never really was about us. Once you are able to embrace that concept, it becomes easier to be vulnerable to strangers you just met that you're sharing these things with. I mean, sometimes I share things with people that I just met that my own family members don't know about me.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:36:50]:
And in some ways, it's easier for me to share some of that vulnerable content with people I don't know.

David Hall [00:36:56]:
Yeah, for sure. So, Jed, this has been a great conversation. Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience today?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:37:04]:
Yeah. Well, thank you for having me here, David, and I love your very introspective and deep questions. Thank you for fulfilling my need for the deep things today. Of course, one thing I would say is if you feel the itch and the desire to speak, listen to it. There is a stage for you. There's a stage for everyone. It may not be the same stage as mine or David's, but there is a stage for you and there's a platform for you to share what's on your heart. So if you're feeling the desire to share what's on your heart, know that there's an audience waiting to hear from you.

David Hall [00:37:39]:
Yeah. And to that point, I love that. To that point, I'll say, you know, one of the myths we bust on the show is that people say, oh, introverts don't have a lot to say. And we absolutely have a lot to say because we're always thinking. And public speaking can be one of many great ways to share our thoughts that we have that people need to hear, just like you're saying, especially for.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:38:02]:
People whose voices were perhaps hushed or muted for one reason or another. We do want to hear from you. And it's your opportunity to take the microphone.

David Hall [00:38:12]:
Absolutely. And, you know, some of the great changes we've seen in the world are from the deep thinkers and we need to hear their voices.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:38:22]:
Absolutely.

David Hall [00:38:24]:
All right, Jen, where can people find out more about you and the great work that you do?

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:38:28]:
Yeah, come join me@waitlistchronicles.com. that's my digital home. Or if you're social, LinkedIn is my favorite place to hang out. So you'll see the links for that below this episode and I'm happy to connect with you there. If you listen to today's episode, please send me a message and say, hey Jen, here's what I really took away from this and don't forget to give it rating and subscribe. I'd really appreciate it.

David Hall [00:38:53]:
Awesome. Thanks again.

Jenn Espinosa-Goswami [00:38:56]:
Thank you.

David Hall [00:38:57]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to davidquietandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:39:37]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.