Ep 236 - Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and the Fear of Judgment With Guest Carlos Garcia

Have you ever caught yourself holding back on an opportunity because you feared what others might think? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall is joined by Carlos Garcia—attorney, Army Reserve JAG officer, and co-founder of True Progress Lab—to explore how imposter syndrome and the fear of judgment can stand in the way of our goals, and more importantly, how to move past them with courage and intentional growth.

You’ll discover practical strategies for building both competence and confidence, the real reason behind those nagging thoughts of not being “enough,” and why embracing discomfort can be your path to personal and professional breakthroughs. Carlos shares powerful lessons from his own story and the work he does helping driven individuals overcome invisible barriers, from learning emotion regulation tools to approaching networking and leadership through an authentic, introverted lens.

If you’re ready to let go of fear, stop missing out on opportunities, and tap into your unique strengths, this episode is for you. Listen in, get inspired, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/236

Carlos Garcia is an attorney, Army Reserve JAG officer, and senior trial defense counsel, where he defends soldiers facing military charges. He’s also a certified Army Resilience Trainer, coaching soldiers and leaders on tools to stay calm and resilient. He’s cofounder of True Progress Lab, where he helps people build calm and boldness under pressure so they can shine when it matters most.

Connect with Carlos on Socials: LinkedIn | Instagram | TikTok

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Transcript

Carlos Garcia [00:00:00]:
Courage is a trait, but to get to courage, I think you need to build a certain level of competence through repetition, which then builds the self belief and the self trust, which is also known as confidence, which then allows you to start taking those risks.

David Hall [00:00:19]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:00:19]:
To start being a little bit bolder.

David Hall [00:00:30]:
Hello and welcome to episode 236 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host David hall and the creator of quietandstrong.com this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced normally.

Carlos Garcia [00:00:49]:
Blair.

David Hall [00:00:50]:
Each episode on a Monday, be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show.

Carlos Garcia [00:00:59]:
Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that.

David Hall [00:01:02]:
Introversion is a beautiful thing. Carlos Garcia is an attorney, Army Reserve JAG officer and senior trial defense counsel where he defends soldiers facing military charges. He's also a certified army resilience trainer, coaching soldiers and leaders on tools to stay calm and resilient. He's the co founder of True Progress Lab where he helps people build calm and boldness under pressure so they can shine when it matters most.

Carlos Garcia [00:01:36]:
All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Carlos. Carlos, it's so good to have you on today.

Carlos Garcia [00:01:41]:
Thank you. It's good to be here, David.

Carlos Garcia [00:01:44]:
Yeah, we're going to get into the great work you're doing, but first just tell us a little bit more about yourself and your journey to what you're doing now.

Carlos Garcia [00:01:53]:
Yeah, sure. So, you know, I'm an attorney right now by trade, and I grew up, I'm from California originally and I grew up with good grades. I was really good on paper. And eventually I started realizing all the way from high school, college, law school, post law school, I was sort of haunted by this notion of imposter syndrome and imposter syndrome, it affected the way I performed. It made me overthink a lot of things. It made me over prepare and spend a lot of time thinking and over preparing. It caused me to procrastinate and hesitate a lot, avoid opportunities. And over the years I came to realize that it was something deeper than that.

Carlos Garcia [00:02:47]:
It was this fear of. Fear of judgment, if you will. Because there's this quote I always think about from this 20th century psychologist. His name is Alfred Adler. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he once said, all problems are interpersonal Problems. And when I read that quote, I was like, interesting. And it just made so much sense to me because if you think about it, you take all, you take, know, human beings away, we wouldn't have imposter syndrome anymore. Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:03:14]:
Because there, no, there are no people around.

Carlos Garcia [00:03:16]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:03:16]:
So what that means, in essence, is that we fear. I feared making mistakes in public. I feared being judged by other people. I feared making mistakes, looking silly, looking foolish in front of people.

David Hall [00:03:31]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:03:32]:
And so it was this fear of judgment, also known as fopo, fear of people's opinions, that was just stopping me from doing things. It made me avoid a lot of things. It made me miss opportunities. And, you know, eventually, through accumulation of missed opportunities, I started. I said, you know, enough was enough. So I started engaging in personal experimentation, doing a lot of reading. I became an army certified resilience trainer and the Army Reserve training soldiers and leaders. I started doing, you know, combat sports and ultra running.

Carlos Garcia [00:04:09]:
And I realized that I needed to have certain experiences to get out of this rut, this mindset. And that ultimately led me to create True Progress Lab. And now I help people get over that fear and so they stop missing those opportunities.

David Hall [00:04:30]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:04:30]:
That's kind of in a nutshell.

Carlos Garcia [00:04:32]:
Yeah. So you're well into your professional career and you're still experiencing this imposter syndrome and fear of what other people think. What was the pivotal moment that you're like, I'm gonna make. Make some. Do some different things here?

Carlos Garcia [00:04:49]:
Yeah, I think it was an accumulation of things, really. Stepping away from the daily grind of working and being overwhelmed with work and competing demands in life and time to reflect and journal and think about the years that have passed by and realizing that there was this pattern of me avoiding opportunities that could have been career changing, potentially life changing for me, and trying to pinpoint where all that came from. And through studying and personal experimentation, I realized that it was. It was this fear, it was this anxiety that I was feeling around certain situations that would cause anxiety that would cause the fear, and that was that.

Carlos Garcia [00:05:41]:
Yeah. And also, Carlos, you're a fellow introvert. How does that all play into this? You know, Was introversion something you had to learn to embrace and what does that mean to you?

Carlos Garcia [00:05:51]:
Yeah, I know you and I talked about that, you know, and great. At great, great lengths before our call. And introvert is interesting because my wife calls me an introvert sometimes. She calls me extrovert. I don't know. You know, I don't think I am an extrovert. I can be, but being an Introvert is so on the MBTI scale. For people who are familiar with mbti, I'm an intj and I believe you're an intj as well.

Carlos Garcia [00:06:17]:
Right, Absolutely. Yep. We're masterminds.

Carlos Garcia [00:06:21]:
Yeah. And so we're both good at. At least myself, I would say I'm good at planning. And planning for me is a big word. So we break down planning, that's organizing, that's reflecting, taking time to see the vision and the big picture. I engage in a lot of just naturally deductive reasoning, going from the big abstract, vague picture and then breaking things down to make it, to make sense of things.

David Hall [00:06:53]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:06:55]:
And I tend to think a lot in systems. You know, whenever I'm. I'm doing tasks or projects, I'm always thinking in the back of my mind, how can this be automated or systematized so that I don't do it again.

David Hall [00:07:09]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:07:10]:
Or make it more efficient. Also methodical in working. You know, I try to do things step by step, although sometimes it's chaotic and you have to multitask at times I'm quite routinized in my ways. I need to have a routine or else my life is sort of falling apart. And I'm always in my head thinking, reflecting, trying to find inspiration. And I think that's a strength in INTJs and introverts in general, that we tend to trust our inspiration a lot because we're always reflecting, we're always thinking.

David Hall [00:07:49]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:07:49]:
And so we get. At least myself, I get a lot of my ideas from those moments of thinking, reflecting, and in that process I find inspiration. And then that's when I'm always jotting things down, ideas down. It all sounds good.

David Hall [00:08:05]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:08:05]:
But there's, I think, a negative side to that, you know, being stiff, for example, or inflexible at times, stubborn in my vision. But that's specifically INTJs, I would say.

Carlos Garcia [00:08:16]:
But I don't know.

Carlos Garcia [00:08:18]:
Would you say that about introverts?

Carlos Garcia [00:08:20]:
Oh, yeah, for sure. And, you know, let's, let's just break down the Myers bricks just a little bit. So it, it is very helpful saying introvert, extrovert. And that's what I focus on because I feel like there's so much misunderstanding. And, you know, I'm always an introvert no matter what I'm doing. But I also, I had some trouble. I was shy and lacked confidence because I didn't understand my introversion. So once I got to know that, I realized how I had to go about things.

Carlos Garcia [00:08:52]:
And some of that is getting over the fear of Judgment, too. You know, there was some social anxiety on my part, too, but it's understanding. Hey, you know what? I'm going to think first and then speak. I can do some amazing things because, you know, I related to a lot of the same things that you said about I'm a really good planner and things like that. But it's not all the aspects of our personality. So, like, the next letter is N, and it stands for intuitive because the I is already taken. So N for intuitive or sensing. And really, it's big picture.

Carlos Garcia [00:09:27]:
You know, really, ideas sometimes can come to us without us seeing all the nitty gritty details. Someone that's sensing needs to see those nitty gritty details, you know, and that's really important. Both of those skills are needed. The other thing is thinking versus feeling. So we're thinking.

David Hall [00:09:44]:
We're.

Carlos Garcia [00:09:45]:
We're looking at the world more logically. Someone that's feeling is actually feeling people's emotions, which I don't know why we don't have that gift. But, you know, I definitely deeply care about people. I'm just. It's going to be more mental for me. Like, okay, how can I help Carlos? What's it like to be Carlos? I'm going to think about it versus someone else with the gift of empathy might actually feel your emotions, which, you know, that's. That's not my gift, for whatever reason.

Carlos Garcia [00:10:09]:
Yeah.

Carlos Garcia [00:10:10]:
And then the last. Go ahead.

Carlos Garcia [00:10:12]:
No, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Carlos Garcia [00:10:13]:
Well, the last one is judging versus perceiving, and it doesn't mean judgment. And you said you need a schedule. Judging is you are scheduled. You do like routines. And the perceiving is more spontaneous, and neither are good or bad. And I often say that that's the letter where me and my wife differ. And she's more spontaneous and free. I need a schedule.

Carlos Garcia [00:10:39]:
You know, we have to work through that sometimes. But also, you know, we're very happy, very happy in our marriage. And also just on that difference, there's no changing either one of us. We're gifts come from it. But understanding that was really important. So, yeah, those. To me, introversion is being a deep thinker, deep processor. We're going to differ in some ways.

Carlos Garcia [00:11:04]:
You know, it's like over 50% of the. So we're not all the same.

Carlos Garcia [00:11:09]:
Yeah.

Carlos Garcia [00:11:09]:
But I definitely think we have in common that we're deep thinkers. And again, I always call myself an introvert, even if I'm doing public speaking or podcasting. It's just I've learned how to prepare and to Manage my energy and other things like that.

Carlos Garcia [00:11:25]:
That's great. And when you mentioned deep thinker, you know that that makes me think like when I'm working on projects or on team projects, I always like to do my own kind of my own time to do my own thinking and then, and then sort of go into the team and then present my thoughts versus people who like to brainstorm and talk it through.

David Hall [00:11:51]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:11:51]:
I'm, I'm very much not like that. I can be with my wife, you know, we'll, we'll have sessions where we'll talk, talk through things and projects and things of that nature. I've, I've been sort of going more towards that direction, talking things through and sort of brainstorming.

David Hall [00:12:09]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:12:09]:
But my preference is to really think about things and then come prepared, you know, I don't know what you think about that.

Carlos Garcia [00:12:18]:
Oh yeah. So what I think is there's some people that think every idea has to be brainstormed. And you and I both know that. We come up with, like you just said, we come up with some of our best ideas given some time to think, you know, maybe we're driving somewhere by ourselves and some great ideas come to us. You know, there is value in group brainstorming. We need to be ready for it. We need to be prepared. Like what's this topic going to be? And some of the best ideas also come from, you know, you know something, I know something, we don't know the same things.

Carlos Garcia [00:12:54]:
We put our ideas together and that can be great. So what I say is, and when I talk about introversion and extroversion, I use words like generally, usually, you know, because yeah, there's not going to be one set way. But what I say is brainstorming in a group has its place. But also acknowledge the introvert's ability to come up with some great ideas on their own. But you also need to know you're working with an extrovert. You know, maybe brainstorming isn't your biggest thing, but maybe they really need that from you even if you don't need it. Maybe they really need to talk things out. And I had a couple on my show and they talked about how he had a half baked idea and he wanted to brainstorm about it and his wife, the introvert said she didn't deal in half baked ideas and us intjs generally don't either.

Carlos Garcia [00:13:49]:
We like to share our fully formed idea. So it's just a difference. And it's important to understand when you're working with people and trying to get some things done.

Carlos Garcia [00:13:58]:
Yeah, no, I definitely see the benefit of speaking before thinking versus what we just talked about moments ago, thinking before we speak. Then there's the other paradigm, which is sort of speaking before thinking where the act of brainstorming and through that brainstorming process you start to. That half baked idea starts to kind of take shape and take form. And I definitely see a benefit to that.

Carlos Garcia [00:14:29]:
And that's what I say. We need both. And what I see sometimes is where people get in their head that everything has to be group brainstormed. And that's just not true. But also I'm not going to come up with all the best ideas on my own. I'm going to come up with some great ideas on my own. But you know, you can benefit from that brainstorming and getting other people's experience and knowledge. And so I say both are important.

Carlos Garcia [00:14:54]:
Yeah, yeah, totally agree.

Carlos Garcia [00:14:57]:
So Carlos, we also bust myths on this show. Is there an introvert myth you want to bust?

Carlos Garcia [00:15:02]:
Introvert myth? Yeah, for sure there is. You know, introverts, when we're going to meetings, we're going to networking events and you see that, that person who's in a corner and you think, oh, that person must be. That, that person must be shy.

David Hall [00:15:18]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:15:18]:
But that's. That that couldn't be farther from the truth. It's just the person who's, you know, has nothing to do with being insecure. Approach situations differently.

David Hall [00:15:29]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:15:29]:
We like to. At least I'll speak for myself. I like to scan and sort of feel the vibe of the area first before just jumping in, into the, to the deep end. You know, I like to sort of warm, warm myself up, maybe start talking to a few people next to the door. You know, if we're talking about, you know, networking. But I'll start talking to people next to the entrance door, then I'll make my way gradually and just start warming up, you know. But I'm not just going to go in there and start, you know, talking to people randomly. I need to warm up.

Carlos Garcia [00:16:00]:
So I think the biggest thing is just an example of a networking event.

David Hall [00:16:04]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:16:05]:
Just to put things into context is thinking that because that person's in the corner by themselves and they're quiet and they're looking around, it doesn't mean that they're insecure or they don't want to talk to anybody.

David Hall [00:16:16]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:16:17]:
It's just how we approach things that are different.

Carlos Garcia [00:16:21]:
Yeah. And it's okay. It's okay to approach things differently. You got to figure out how am I going to be successful and, you know, if I need to bounce from person to person, I can, but it's not going to be that effective for me. I. I'm going to be better, you know, looking for some great conversations, some deeper conversations. But it all comes back to what's your goals? Do you need to meet certain people? You know, do you want to meet certain people? You know, what, what do you want? What conversations do you need to have? Do you want to have?

Carlos Garcia [00:16:50]:
Yeah, I think that's really a really important point of figuring out what the objective, what your objective or your goal is. And that's gonna then lead you to take the right actions, you know, despite any discomfort that you are gonna feel. But, you know, if I didn't, if I don't have an objective, then my preference is probably gonna be just. Probably just hang out with my small circle, you know.

Carlos Garcia [00:17:16]:
Yeah, yeah.

Carlos Garcia [00:17:17]:
Talk to them. That would be my preference. But if I do have a goal of having to meet, you know, 10, 15 people talking, you know, I'll do it. For sure.

Carlos Garcia [00:17:24]:
Yeah, for sure.

Carlos Garcia [00:17:25]:
Yeah.

Carlos Garcia [00:17:26]:
Tell us about True Progress Labs.

Carlos Garcia [00:17:29]:
Yeah, so True Progress Lab is a coaching organization that I started from, you know, my personal journey that I shared with you some minutes ago. And at True Progress Lab, you know, we started coaching people, you know, smart people, driven people. But they're just stuck because there's this invisible barrier that most of the time is fear of judgment, anxiety created from this fear, which is then stopping them from taking that next bold step because they keep getting stuck. They want to get promoted, for example, or they want to make a certain amount of money, or they want to apply for that job, but they have this story they tell themselves about themselves that keeps them from doing that, and it keeps them from thinking the right thoughts and taking the right actions to get to that objective. So at True Progress Lab, what we do is we help people get bold. We help people first build calm in situations like networking, presenting, doing pitches, difficult conversations or conflict, or being in the spotlight as a leader. We help them get calm in those situations. And after they learn to be calm in those situations, then we help them thrive in those situations.

Carlos Garcia [00:18:58]:
We help them thrive by becoming bolder in those situations so that they can show up as their best selves. You know, that's kind of the big picture so they can go after those opportunities. And how we do that is a combination of nervous system and emotion regulation tools that we use. And we teach people how to use those tools under stress, under increasing doses of pressure, because it's Important for people to feel that adrenaline spike, you know, just before you're going to go on stage, for example, and do a TED talk or presentation or be in front of people, you feel that anxiety, right? You need to feel that because you need to become comfortable with those feelings. Because if you don't, you're going to panic when it's time to shine. So we give these tools to these people and then we teach them to use those tools under those pressure situations. And once they start to become increasingly comfortable, then we start to add more discomfort. Like the situations that they came to us for help in the, in the first place, like applying for that stretch role or being that leader, you know, that's respected and seen and has that kind of presence.

Carlos Garcia [00:20:08]:
But you need to first build the comfort, right? And you build that through. What we do is give them challenges. We give them mental challenges and physical challenges. So physical challenges could be, we could talk more about this, but just generally, generally physical challenges are physical exercises that are rigorous in nature. So rigorous, meaning it makes you sweat and makes you, it triggers certain negative thoughts that will potentially get in the way of you not finishing that last rep or running that last mile. Because physical exercise is a really good tool to learn how to manage your negative thoughts and emotions. Because it's just you and the exercise, right? So you take out all the variables of humans and it's just you, the road and your shoes, for example, if we're talking about running. And then we also do mental challenges which are sort of imitations or they're, they're scenarios that mimic the real thing at the workplace.

Carlos Garcia [00:21:13]:
So for example, if a person has trouble with being seen as a leader, leading meetings, having those difficult conversations, we'll create those scenarios outside the workplace with increasing doses of pressure. So they learn to become comfortable and confident in those situations. And that with that new self belief and self trust, they take that into the workplace and they can shine.

David Hall [00:21:38]:
Right?

Carlos Garcia [00:21:38]:
Because you don't want to learn how to do these things at the workplace. You need to be already bold and confident and have a presence. Right. As a leader, you don't want to necessarily have to build that, especially if you're leading a team, right? Like your team is looking to you for guidance and confidence and leadership.

David Hall [00:21:57]:
Right?

Carlos Garcia [00:21:58]:
So Carlos, where do you start? Like I know you talk about a person's story, you talked about their old story. How do you help them develop that new story and, and look at what their goals are?

Carlos Garcia [00:22:13]:
Yeah, that's a great question. So we have an assessment that we do with people that asks them a range of questions to get to know a little bit more about them, their struggles, their goals. And we get to know what their current values are, what their current mission, purpose, vision is, if they currently have one, because many times they don't. And then we help them create a personal constitution we call it, or an ethos, which is a one to two page document that helps them identify what is it that they value, what is it that's important to them, what are their purposes, what's their one purpose, what's their second purpose, what do they want, what are they chasing and why are they chasing it? Right, because. And that becomes their new story. Because people who come to us, they have a story that they've been repeating on repeat, but it's not the most helpful story. And it's the cause of why they act in certain ways or why they make certain, take certain decisions. Like we're talking about fear of judgment, right? So many people chase status, they, they chase, they chase money or they chase job titles.

Carlos Garcia [00:23:42]:
Right. And they realize that working with us, that they were chasing somebody else's version of success.

David Hall [00:23:50]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:23:51]:
There were wor. They were too worried about what people thought of them, that they're living the wrong thing, you know, and then it causes them to burn out, it causes them to over worry, it causes them to overthink all these symptoms.

David Hall [00:24:04]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:24:05]:
And so they need to rewrite this personal constitution, this news story, and then not just write the news story, but back it up with proof, with evidence that they are actually living out this new story.

David Hall [00:24:23]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:24:25]:
So that's where the physical challenges come in. That's where the mental challenges come in.

Carlos Garcia [00:24:29]:
Yeah. And then how do you define courage? What's real courage to you?

Carlos Garcia [00:24:35]:
Courage. Courage for me is, is putting, putting yourself in scary situations, being scared, feeling the anxiety and doing it anyway with the understanding that it's going to be okay, you're going to survive it, you're still going to be breathing on the other side. But before courage comes competence, which then builds the confidence, which then makes or creates the room to start taking risks and start being a little bit bolder, a little bit more bold to then have. Because boldness is the action of courage to me.

David Hall [00:25:26]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:25:27]:
So courage is a trait. But to get to courage, I think you need to build a certain level of competence through repetition, which then builds the self belief and the self trust, which is also known as confidence, which then allows you to, to start taking those risks.

David Hall [00:25:48]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:25:48]:
To start being a little bit bolder. Does that, does that make sense.

Carlos Garcia [00:25:53]:
Absolutely. And definitely it's a process. Yeah. Building competence to build your confidence. And, you know, I also, it. You do have to change your thoughts. Like, you're saying you can't just. Just all of a sudden have this courage.

Carlos Garcia [00:26:12]:
You have to tell yourself whatever it is, whatever messages that, you know, what. What am I telling myself? And challenge that, you know, and say this, I've got this. You know, this isn't scary. You know, this might be hard, but it's. It's a normal thing to go through.

Carlos Garcia [00:26:29]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not like you're just gonna fat, like, have the courage to do, you know, certain things. I mean, you could, but you're more likely to have courage, I think, if you're. If you. If you have a certain level, if you have that baseline of confidence, you know, and you build that confidence through the specific, specific situations that you're. You have problems with.

Carlos Garcia [00:26:56]:
Yeah, I think for me, you know, because you talked about imposter syndrome, I think for me, it was realizing, you know what? I'm doing my best work here. I'm preparing the best I can. But the key for me was I'm not perfect, but nobody is. You know, like, I could apply that to public speaking. Like, I used to get so nervous, but now I'm like, I did my best preparation. I have an important message to share, but I'm not perfect. I'm gonna. Afterward, I'm gonna think, oh, next time I'm gonna do this.

Carlos Garcia [00:27:26]:
But I remember that in the audience, there's no perfect people either.

Carlos Garcia [00:27:30]:
Yeah, no, I love that you mentioned that. The ability to own your imperfections and your mistakes and your flaws. There's so much power in that because you yourself are admitting and owning to that. And it takes the power away from other people trying to use that against you, because you're already admitting it. You're admitting that you're imperfect, and you have that understanding that everybody has skeletons in their closet. Some people are just really good at hiding them. My wife, she works in learning and development and human resources, and she's always talking with C suite people. She's always talking to these leaders who come from these Ivy League schools, have these sexy leadership job titles, and she tells me these stories that I'm just baffled because it doesn't matter if you're a leader, if you have certain number of years.

Carlos Garcia [00:28:35]:
It doesn't matter who you are, where you come from. Everybody has problems. And you wonder how they're able to make it so high. They're just able to hide their skeletons. And yeah, like there's this power and just being okay with being okay. It goes back to. I don't know if you asked me this, but a fear of being okay with looking silly or being okay with making mistakes. Because often the issue of the cause of the anxiety is that we fear making mistakes or looking silly or looking foolish in public.

Carlos Garcia [00:29:13]:
But if we get used to being okay with those things, then they no longer have power over you.

David Hall [00:29:21]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:29:21]:
You become desensitized to the fears and you're able to then take more risks because you know that through practice that if it does happen, you do make a mistake or you do look silly for a little bit. You know, people are not going to remember tomorrow because they're so busy, you know, worried about their own problems. Or your mind just understands that you're still going to be breathing the next day.

David Hall [00:29:48]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:29:48]:
And many times, nine times out of 10, those worst case scenario thoughts that you have swimming around your mind, you realize after the fact that it never, it never happened.

David Hall [00:30:00]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:30:02]:
So. And, but the mind needs to understand that through practice and repetition, the mind needs to learn that that in fact is going to be the case that you're going to be okay on the other, on the other side, you know, like the public speaking you mentioned. I was just, I was just thinking about that because I used to be the same way, you know, I was terrified of public speaking. I would spend hours practicing, you know. And you save a lot of time too, from the, from the, from the over preparation. You save hours in the day, right?

Carlos Garcia [00:30:31]:
Yeah, for sure.

Carlos Garcia [00:30:34]:
Yeah.

Carlos Garcia [00:30:34]:
So are there any other practical steps to help someone get over the fear of looking silly?

Carlos Garcia [00:30:40]:
Yeah, there's, there's a lot you can do. So the first thing I would say is people need to first understand that that's the problem.

David Hall [00:30:49]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:30:50]:
Looking silly, looking foolish. I would say first figuring out what situations are causing the anxiety. Is it, you know, public speaking? Is it talking to certain individuals? Maybe people who look more confident? You know, many people have a problem with talking with other super confident people. Is it going to networking events? Like what is it? And then you have to sort of work backwards. You have to put in the reps. You have to start doing things that are similar in nature to the situation that is causing the fear or the anxiety. And then little by little, you start sort of increasing the stress level. You know, first, if it's networking, for example, you can start by going to the events and just hanging out there first.

Carlos Garcia [00:31:40]:
And then maybe the next day you can start Talking to one person, maybe the next day you can start talking to two people, you know, kind of like that. But you also need the tools to kind of lift you up after you fail because you're gonna, you're gonna fail, right? You're gonna make mistakes. And that's where the nervous system and emotion regulations, tools come into place as well, where you're able to go through that thought process and reflect so that you can stay resilient and do it again.

David Hall [00:32:11]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:32:13]:
So the first thing I would do, going back to your question, is find what is causing the anxiety and then try to replicate that. Work backwards and try to replicate that and put in the reps. That's the easiest and most direct way you can start getting those confidence reps in building that evidence, that self trust that you can, you can do it, you can thrive in those situations.

Carlos Garcia [00:32:38]:
Yeah, and the reps are so important. Like, you know, I started this podcast four years ago and I was confident when I started. But I'll tell you what, I over you just get more and more confident, you know, and, and you just get better in your abilities, but you have to start with whatever it is you have to put in the reps and you will get better. And I'd like to think I was just as good back then, but I probably wasn't.

Carlos Garcia [00:33:05]:
Yeah, yeah, no, that's super, super important. Put in the reps. And yeah, like I was saying, it's a lot of times we quit early too. You know, we'll quit early because we'll try it a few times and then we'll let our thoughts and emotions get the best of us, you know, like, oh, this was terrible, you know, then you start feeling sorry for yourself and then you all of a sudden you create this story and you say, oh, this isn't for me. But whenever you're starting something new, right, there's going to be friction. There's going to be a lot of, a lot of failures in the beginning, a lot of pain. And you have to just understand and remind yourself that that's part of the process. That friction, that being terrible at it, you know, and then eventually you start to become comfortable.

Carlos Garcia [00:33:50]:
Yeah. Speaking of comfort, what do you mean when you say intentional discomfort?

Carlos Garcia [00:33:57]:
Potential discomfort is doing things with your mind and body that are uncomfortable to you. Where you start, where you allow yourself and you allow yourself to create negative thoughts, where it then becomes your job to regulate those negative thoughts and emotions and learn to push past them in spite of those negative thoughts. So intentional discomfort is a way to practice Training how to manage those thoughts that get in the way of you doing what you have to do but don't necessarily want to do to get to your objective, you know?

Carlos Garcia [00:34:45]:
Yeah.

Carlos Garcia [00:34:47]:
Taking advantage of that opportunity, whether it's applying for that promotion, whether it's raising your hand in the classroom and speaking up, whether it's getting that leadership position that you know you're qualified for, but you just can't get yourself to do it.

Carlos Garcia [00:35:07]:
Yeah. Is that part of the work you do at True Progress Lab, the intentional discomfort?

Carlos Garcia [00:35:13]:
Yeah, for sure. We do that with the physical challenges. And that's why I said rigorous, because it's not just a couple push ups and sit ups. Yeah. We make you go through the. These physical crucibles where your mind starts to get activated and you start to trigger those thoughts and where it becomes difficult to do that last rep or run that last mile. But then you have to learn how to push through that, get over those negative thoughts, because that. Then it's like.

Carlos Garcia [00:35:42]:
I always give the example of meditation. You know, the purpose of meditation is to practice mindfulness, right? To be present in the moment in very simplistic terms. And when you start first meditating, right, you sit in crisscross applesauce, like my son says, Indian style, right. Close your eyes, and you sit in a relaxed area where it's sort of dark and quiet. But eventually the goal is to not have to sit in that way, not have to be by yourself with the lights off and your eyes closed. Ultimately, the objective is for you to be mindful when you're living in the present moment, when you're washing the dishes, when you're having a conversation. And that's the same thing with the. With the physical exercises.

Carlos Garcia [00:36:30]:
You can't expect to do hard things in the workplace if you can't even do. Finish your rigorous physical exercise out in the gym or out on the road, if you can't even run five miles and get over those negative thoughts of. Of just running that extra mile. It's very transferable. How are you gonna. How are you gonna manage to do the hard stuff if you can't even do the simple hard stuff without anybody but yourself? How are you gonna be able to do it in the workplace?

David Hall [00:37:01]:
Right?

Carlos Garcia [00:37:01]:
So that's why we do the physical challenge, because it's just. It's directly transferable to the workplace. If you can do those hard things with your body and manage those thoughts, you're more likely gonna be able to do that and transfer that training that you've developed into the workplace.

Carlos Garcia [00:37:17]:
Yeah. So in the beginning you talked about that you did have imposter syndrome and you over, you definitely suffered with overthinking and things like that. How are you now?

Carlos Garcia [00:37:30]:
It's a work in progress. You know, every time we, we go up, you know, up the scale or we get into a new position and we have new peers around us, there's going to be that level, you know, we're human, we're going to have that imposter syndrome. We're going to feel like we're not good enough. But having the tools to manage that, right? Having the tools to manage those thoughts from getting the best of you, that's what's important because they're so self consuming and it takes so much mental real estate space in your brain. Even when you log off work, you're still thinking about work, you're still thinking about, oh, this person is probably going to think I'm like this or I'm like that. It just takes so much time. And having ways to deal with those thoughts I think is super important. So I would say with me, I'm, yeah, I'm doing much better than before for sure.

Carlos Garcia [00:38:26]:
You know, because I have, I learned through, through, through my, my work and experimenting that you have to, you have to have the tools to get over, otherwise it's going to just consume you and burn you out.

Carlos Garcia [00:38:41]:
Yeah. And I think, you know, we've been talking about this. I think we just need to remember that we're all a work in progress. You know, like I said before, I realized I wasn't perfect and I'm always trying to get better. But part of overcoming imposter syndrome is I am a work in progress. You know, I don't know everything, you know, and definitely, you know, maybe especially as intjs, we do want to know everything.

Carlos Garcia [00:39:07]:
Yeah, yeah, we do want to know everything. Because there's a certain reputation you want to maintain, right? I mean it's not, it's not just about, oh, overcoming this fear of, of looking silly or foolish. I mean there is a certain limit to that, right. Especially in the workplace you need, you have, as you go up the ladder, you have certain job titles, there's a certain reputation you want to keep and people you care about as well. You, you want a reputation to keep, right? So there, so with that comes imposter syndrome. You're going to have those feelings, but if you didn't care about them or you didn't care about your job, then you wouldn't have imposter syndrome because you wouldn't Care.

David Hall [00:39:46]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:39:47]:
So it's a fine balance between being okay with looking silly, looking foolish, making mistakes, and having to maintain that reputation, you know, and that's where the imposter syndrome, I think, comes. But like you said, being okay with being imperfect, you know, And I think that's what makes a leader a good leader is admitting to not knowing things, you know, admitting when you don't have the answer to something, admitting when you have made a mistake. And like, like you've expressed here, like your, Your honesty and how your honesty with telling yourself that you're imperfect, that has power.

David Hall [00:40:30]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:40:30]:
Because you're being authentic. You're being honest. And I think that's. That's one of the most important things as well, just being honest. And people see that, you know, people, like people respect authenticity and honesty and vulnerability as well.

David Hall [00:40:46]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:40:46]:
And that, I think, says a lot about being a leader if you have those things.

Carlos Garcia [00:40:51]:
So, yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that. So often, you know, people in leadership, maybe especially newer people to leadership, think that they can't be honest and show their vulnerabilities and be authentic, you know, and it can seem counterintuitive, but really that's what people want and need. They want to know who their leader is, and it's okay that they're not perfect as well.

Carlos Garcia [00:41:17]:
Yeah, yeah. I think people, they want transparency. You know, I've had leaders where they would sit down with my team, we would all sit down and have lunch on the regular or dinner or events. I've also had leaders where they would never do such a thing. That says a lot about a leader, I think, because as a leader, you are comfortable with who you are and how you carry yourself. You're not one person to somebody and another person to somebody else necessarily. You're. You're sharing stories, you're being yourself around your team, and then compare that with somebody who doesn't even do that, you know, and they want to have this authoritative perception, you know, or be seen as this authoritative leader.

Carlos Garcia [00:42:10]:
And I much more prefer the other option, which is being able to see a leader for who they are, you know? Yeah. It goes back to just being authentic, being yourself and being honest.

Carlos Garcia [00:42:24]:
Yeah. And it's, it's funny because, you know, we talk a lot about leadership on this show, and sometimes the perception is you have to be the loud and large and in charge leader. And I, I don't think most people really want that. And I also don't. I think, like we're talking about that. They, they, they Want honesty and transparency and authenticity.

Carlos Garcia [00:42:47]:
Yeah. And they want to see, you know, that you're actually empathetic, not through your words, but through actions.

David Hall [00:42:55]:
Right.

Carlos Garcia [00:42:55]:
Because you can say, oh, we care about you and this and that. You know, I've had leaders who always say things, but they don't back it up with action. You know, like, how. How are you being empathetic towards me? Like, what, what. What are your actions saying? You know, are you taking more work? Are you. Are you looking out for the team? Like, what exactly are you doing? What are your actions saying? I think that the empathy part is important as well. Being. I always call my wife.

Carlos Garcia [00:43:24]:
She doesn't see herself as that, but I always tell her, you're an empathetic leader. She has so much empathy, and people naturally gravitate towards her when they need help with something. They see her as a leader, but she doesn't see herself as a leader at all. And I think that says a lot about a leader. Leaders are people who don't necessarily want to be in the spotlight, but they are, because they have to. Those are the ones that become the authentic leaders, I think.

Carlos Garcia [00:43:54]:
Yeah. And you bring up such a good point. So, yes. That's so key to our teams is this team needs to know that you care, but you make such a good point that you have to show it. You can't just say it. You have to show how you care and how you really value, you know, each team member.

Carlos Garcia [00:44:15]:
Yeah, yeah. You have to show it through actions. That's exactly right. Yeah. A very good point. You bring.

Carlos Garcia [00:44:24]:
Carlos, this has been a wonderful conversation. We could probably talk for a lot longer. Is there anything else that you want to add today?

David Hall [00:44:33]:
No.

Carlos Garcia [00:44:33]:
I would just say don't take yourself so seriously. Be okay with looking silly. Be okay with owning your mistakes and looking foolish, because that's. That's what's going to be the game changer. You know, not being so stiff and so full of yourself. Let go of your job titles, let go of your status symbols and start taking more risks.

Carlos Garcia [00:45:01]:
Absolutely. And I. I really loved how you said how you paired competence and confidence together. I thought that was really powerful. You know, keep building your competence and that will build your confidence.

Carlos Garcia [00:45:12]:
I appreciate that.

Carlos Garcia [00:45:13]:
David, how do people find out more about True Progress Lab and the great work that you do?

Carlos Garcia [00:45:20]:
I'm on X LinkedIn IG TikTok these days. My handle is TrueProgress Lab. T R U E P R O G R e s s lab and my website, you can find me@TrueProgressLab.com all.

Carlos Garcia [00:45:37]:
Right, I will put all that in the show notes as well. Thanks again.

Carlos Garcia [00:45:41]:
Thanks David. Great talk.

David Hall [00:45:43]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free Typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyanstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:46:23]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.