Ep 238 - The Power of Neurodiversity in Creating Inclusive Workplaces with guest Grant Harris

What does it really take to build a workplace where everyone feels valued and included—especially when it comes to supporting neurodiverse employees? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with Grant Harris, founder and President of GTH Consulting, to explore the transformative power of neurodiversity in today’s organizations. Grant, a certified diversity executive and three-time published autistic author, shares his personal journey of late autism diagnosis and how it shaped not just his life but also his approach to helping organizations move from compliance to true community.

Listeners will discover the real meaning of neurodiversity, why it matters far beyond legal compliance, and how businesses can unlock greater efficiency, equity, and innovation by embracing all types of thinkers. Grant introduces actionable frameworks, challenges common misconceptions about neurodiversity, and explains why terms like "neurodistinct" can create more meaningful, human-centered inclusion. You'll also hear practical strategies for cultivating psychological safety, building genuine community in the workplace, and moving past the myth of “normal” to celebrate what makes each person unique.

Tune in for candid conversation, fresh insights, and plenty of “aha” moments—whether you’re a leader, HR professional, or someone curious about the positive impact of neurodiversity at work. Learn how to recognize and support the unique strengths every team member brings, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/238

Grant Harris is the founder and president of GTH Consulting, LLC, a minority and disability-owned management consulting firm offering customized organizational development, human capital, and cultural transformation services to public and private clients. Grant is a Certified Diversity Executive, 3 time published autistic author, organizational culture specialist, keynote speaker, and corporate board member. His work helps individuals and institutions move from ‘Compliance to Community’™ by harnessing the business value of neurodiversity in the workplace, from the boardroom to the mailroom.

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Transcript

Grant Harris [00:00:00]:
I'm always listening. Like I tell my kids, I'm always absorbing information. And part of my autistic traits is that I absorb information at higher rates than the average bear. So I'm always absorbing information and listening, but I don't always respond to that information quickly or right away. And that has caused some internal strife at home, but it also has caused some ambiguity in the workplace in terms of am I really listening or not? Because my facial expressions don't always match the words that are coming out of my mouth or the things that are happening around. I'm usually not on camera, but I know that I'm going to be on camera today and I can do those things, but it takes a lot of energy. So all of this is an autism introversion mix mashup kind of thing that shows up for me. But yeah, it's interesting and I have come to understand more of myself through having these introverted conversations.

David Hall [00:01:09]:
Hello and welcome to episode 238 of. The Quiet Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host David hall and the Creator of QuietStrong.com this is a weekly. Podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and Needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we'll air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or rating that would mean a lot to me and help others find the show.Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that. Introversion is a beautiful thing.

David Hall [00:01:43]:
Grant Harris is the founder and President of GTH Consulting llc, a minority and disability owned management consulting firm offering customized organizational development, human capital and cultural transformation services to public and private clients. Grant is a certified diversity executive, three time published autistic author, organizational culture specialist, keynote speaker and corporate board member. His work helps individuals and institutions move from compliance to community by harnessing the business value of neurodiversity in the workplace. From the boardroom to the mailroom.

David Hall [00:02:26]:
All right, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Grant. Grant, it's so good to have you on today.

Grant Harris [00:02:31]:
It's my pleasure, David. Good to be here.

David Hall [00:02:35]:
Yeah, we're going to get into your work, especially with neurodiversity, but let's just first hear a little bit more about you. Tell us about your journey to the.

David Hall [00:02:44]:
Work you're doing now.

Grant Harris [00:02:46]:
Oh, well, I appreciate that question. Long winding path, but it's been a. It's been an excellent journey. I'm a Washingtonian by trade, born and raised in the B.C. area. I still live in that area. Fortunately I've been able to travel the country and the world, experience different places and people, but it's still my home today. I very much enjoy the DC area, come from a family of five, close knit and had a awesome childhood by all rights that you would imagine nothing out of the ordinary.

Grant Harris [00:03:20]:
Parents are college educated come from a college educated family. Education was big for us and I have multiple degrees and certifications that make me sound smarter than what I am. But I am a lifelong learner so education is important. High school athlete, played every sport that I could touch a ball and proud to say that I am a member of my high school's hall of Fame. That is a small claim to fame for me. So proud of that went off to military school. I was the first in my nuclear family to attend military school, although my cousin who graduated a year before me from my mother's side of the family was the other person to attend the military school, went there on a football scholarship and thirdly did not like the experience. Nobody really enjoys the military school experience.

Grant Harris [00:04:12]:
If they tell you that they enjoy it, they're either lying or delusional. But it's not about the enjoyment of the moment, it's about after the fact and what it does for you as a person and how it ingrained in me multiple different things and discipline and these types of things and come to find out later in life. I believe that my college years were much different than the standard or the norm, but also informed who I am today and I'll come back to that later on in the journey. Came out of school and I've had about three careers in my day. I started out in management consulting, working for the army, managing a global workforce development program. My moved into education, spent time in K12 as a special educator teaching autistic kids before I knew I was autistic, which is ironic and also spent time at the high school level and moved through and held some administrative roles at the community college level. Again, education is important to me. Education and learning is not confined to the four walls of school, but it is a place to gain some of that education and knowledge and life experience.

Grant Harris [00:05:24]:
In all those roles in education, I held some type of leadership duty that put me in a position to help people that were marginalized or underprivileged. Sometimes not to my knowledge. I wasn't going for that particularly specifically, but it ended up being that way and other times I was looking to serve the underserved and the marginalized and the underprivileged So I bounced around education, came out of education and got into government contracting and entrepreneurship. I'm a bit of a serial entrepreneur, had three businesses in my day, but this is the one that has been most successful, quote unquote, and has been most sustainable and has been most profitable. And I don't necessarily mean money profitable and valuable in terms of the work that I do, the people that I get to meet like you, the conversations that I get to have, so profitable in that way intrinsically and extrinsically. And about four years ago now I was late diagnosed autistic. Wasn't a surprise to me and the people around me, but no one in my family talked about disability. I'm the first in my family to be diagnosed with a disability, first in the family to be diagnosed with autism that I am aware of.

Grant Harris [00:06:42]:
So that layer of being a person with a disability, being neurodistinct and then specifically being autistic, I had to work through all three of those layers. Fortunately, my wife is ADHD and she had long time suspected that I might be autistic and she was the catalyst behind my diagnosis. And that college experience that I mentioned to you earlier about the structure of military school, the discipline of military school, the routine that you can imagine in a military environment, I think that gave part of the reason that I was so successful there is because I held leadership roles, I held rank within the corps of cadets and again being a scholarship athlete and juggling that three legged stool of academics and the military life and the athletic life, that my autistic traits and characteristics were beneficial for me during that time of life and I was able to unmask. I didn't know at the time that I was unmasking, but I did because I did not have to. It was very black and white. It was yes or no, right or wrong, up, down, left. And that's how I lived life at that time of life. I'm much more gray now.

Grant Harris [00:08:03]:
One, I'm older. Two, I'm a family man, I've gotten, I'm married. Three, I have a much better understanding of autism in general and how my autism shows up specifically. So I'm not as, I'm not as black and white as I used to, but that's my natural state of it either is or it isn't kind of thing. So that's a little bit, a little bit about me. And if anyone has read my books, I am a three time published author. I know we'll probably talk about those, but I talk much more in depth about that path and that journey in my, in my forward, in the preface of the book. But thank you for giving me the opportunity to share a little bit about that journey.

David Hall [00:08:41]:
Yeah, absolutely. We have a lot to talk about today, so. Yeah, you're a three time author. Tell us summarize those books for us, please.

Grant Harris [00:08:50]:
Yeah. So three books. I wasn't planning on being an author. That wasn't on my bucket list, but it happened. All three of the books are focused on organizational development as a large umbrella. How people in organizations are more effective, efficient and equitable. Specifically, they do focus on aspects of diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility. That's the first book.

Grant Harris [00:09:12]:
The second book is about mastering inclusive leadership and the third is about implicit bias. So they're all about how people interact with not only themselves to understand their intrinsic value, their principles. I put forth frameworks. They're built on frameworks that people like you and others can use individually to help improve themselves in the workplace. But not just themselves, but the overall atmosphere and ecosphere of the organization, whether it's non, profit, for profit, small, medium, large. The books are practical in nature. They are meant to be practiced, not just in theory. I'm a practitioner, so I like to try things and fail at them and then try again.

Grant Harris [00:10:00]:
So the books are very much based in that. Also very roadmap oriented. This is how you can do something. Now, I'm not suggesting that the way that I posit and put forward information is the end all, be all and the way it should be. I am suggesting that these systems are systems for a reason and they were built by processes. And the only way that they can be either dismantled or readjusted is through processes, in my opinion. So I put forth some ways for folks to do that. And it doesn't really matter what level you are, intern or the CEO.

Grant Harris [00:10:38]:
You can utilize these principles and to make the organization more effective, efficient and equitable.

David Hall [00:10:46]:
Yeah, absolutely. Of course. We're on the Quiet and Strong podcast. So I have a couple introvert questions for you. You're a fellow introvert. What's a strength that you have because you're an introvert?

Grant Harris [00:10:58]:
Yeah, in short, thrift. We talked about this before. I have always self identified as an introvert. People around me know that I have introverted tendencies and traits, but I had never really publicly talked about it. This is the first time publicly that I'm talking about being an introvert. I talk a lot, obviously about neurodiversity and autism, but this is my first time talking about being an introvert. But I have a long time affiliated with it. So some of my strengths, I think, are I use two ears and one mouth.

Grant Harris [00:11:30]:
I tell my kids all the time. I listen first. I know that this is a podcast and I'm talking a lot, but this is not my natural nature. I listen first. I observe first. Uh, so a reflective mindset. I'm always thinking about my thinking. I don't think that people think enough about their thinking.

Grant Harris [00:11:49]:
I don't think people think enough about what they say and how they say it before they say it. And the flip side of that is that I'm always in my head. I'm always in my head. I'm always thinking. That takes a lot of energy. That takes a lot of effort. I'm used to it because I've gone this long in life. But with wife and kids and job and life and all of that, that takes a lot of energy.

Grant Harris [00:12:12]:
So on the flip side of being reflective and introspective and being able to observe people and situations and then come to the table with solutions for problems that other people might not have thought of or in a way to influence the situation or to influence a decision or to influence the way that an organization moves without doing it from the center stage, without doing it in the spotlight. Being okay with being number two. We live in a culture where it's always number one. I'm okay with being number two or number three and influencing and being the neck that turns the head of number one from that perspective. So those are things that I believe that my introverted nature has ways that it has shown up in ways that it's been beneficial for not only me, but for people around me.

David Hall [00:13:11]:
Yeah. I'm happy that I'm the first that you're sharing this. This is great. And that's what this show is all about. Introversion has long been misunderstood. Just like when we're talking about neurodiversity, there's a lot of misunderstanding there. And so we do this and talk about the strengths. And you have a gift.

David Hall [00:13:30]:
Introverts have a gift of thinking. And you described it very well. That's a great strength that you have. And a lot of good comes from that.

Grant Harris [00:13:38]:
Yes. And thinking shows up in different ways. But those pauses. And I can tell you, David, on a personal level, my wife is the opposite. She's adhd. She's the. She is the extroverts. Extrovert, okay.

Grant Harris [00:13:53]:
Is the epitome of extroversion. You get the yin and the yang. You get the opposites tracked. She's adhd. I'm autistic. She's a chatterbird. I like to listen, but we tell people throughout our relationship and marriage, she likes to talk and I like to listen. So it works.

Grant Harris [00:14:10]:
But she routinely just says what's on her mind. Doesn't it just comes out me. However, I take a second to respond. And she hasn't always understood that about me, although she's been around me for a very long time. And sometimes it's frustrating for her. And I can imagine that sometimes it might be frustrating for other people, but that is how I internalize subconsciously and consciously, I take a beat, I take a minute if I'm thinking about something, but subconsciously, depending on the nature of the conversation, depending on who I'm talking to, depending on the emotional state, all of these things, I don't always answer right away. I'm always listening. Like I tell my kids, I'm always absorbing information.

Grant Harris [00:14:53]:
And part of my autistic traits is that I absorb information at higher rates than the average bear. So I'm always absorbing information and listening, but I don't always respond to that information quickly or right away. And that has caused some internal strife at home, but it also has caused some ambiguity in the workplace in terms of am I really listening or not? Because my facial expressions don't always match the words that are coming out of my mouth or the things that are happening around. I'm usually not on camera, but I know that I'm going to be on camera today and I can do those things, but it takes a lot of energy. So all of this is an autism, introversion, mix, mashup kind of things that shows up for me. But yeah, it's interesting and I have come to understand more of myself through having these introverted conversations.

David Hall [00:15:48]:
Yeah. And what you described is probably one of the biggest misunderstandings and challenges. So it sounds like you and your wife mostly understand how you communicate, but that's so important. Many couples, families, work situations, and if you don't understand, hey, I'm thinking, and I'm going to share with you what I think is most important. You're thinking out loud. You're forming your ideas as you speak. There can be a lot of misunderstandings, but when we understand that each are gifts, there's not one way isn't right or wrong. They're just different.

David Hall [00:16:22]:
And we need to learn to embrace them. But that's where a lot of misunderstandings come from, is when we don't understand that. I think first you speak first, but we both have some great Ideas to share.

Grant Harris [00:16:37]:
Certainly I've seen that time and time again and I believe in the roles that I sit as a consultant, as a board member, more often than not it's received. But I have been able to articulate deeper and better the way that I communicate and why I might be doing things in a certain way, which is helpful. But not everybody has that capability. Not everybody has the environments that are safe enough either physically or psychologically to do. And there are ways to help mitigate that. And that's part of the work that I do. And we won't get into all that conversation today, but it certainly is things that I think about because I have to walk the talk and practice what I preach, so to speak. And I have to remind myself of those things.

Grant Harris [00:17:25]:
It's difficult for me. Sometimes I literally say that I don't like people that I don't know, which is true. I am not a people person. I am a relationship building person. I'd rather have an individual conversation with David than being a room full of Davids that I don't know. And I'm like, why is this? And my wife is the exact opposite. And people in the workplace do both or either. But neither of them, like you said, should be ashamed of that.

Grant Harris [00:17:52]:
But in the culture and the society that we're in, the person who is quiet, and I've posted About this on LinkedIn, got to watch out for the quiet ones and they must be hiding something. Oh, why am I that negative connotation? And that goes into shyness, which is a personal pet peeve of mine. I have no disdain for people who describe themselves as shy. However you tell me, David, you tell me a question for you is that have you ever personally heard someone talk about shyness, describe someone being shy in a positive way? Has it ever been like, oh man, they're shy, that's awesome. Have you ever experienced that?

David Hall [00:18:40]:
No, it's not described that way. And often the other thing is introversion is also often used synonymously and they're not synonymous. But yeah, I haven't heard it described in a helpful way at all.

Grant Harris [00:18:55]:
No, it's always negative, it's always derogatory. And especially in my family, My nuclear family growing up was loud and boisterous to an extent. My family that I married into is extremely loud and bortress and they had to get used to me for years because I would physically and mentally and emotionally step back and shrivel away from conversation because they're just going competing and I'm like, ah, that's too Much for me, the lights are on and everything's so all of that and I was labeled as shy. And not only people in my family, but people in society. I've never heard anyone talk about introversion or shyness. And they mix them and they conflate the two and they're different, but I've never heard them. But that's the reason I bring that up, is because society puts them together. They say, oh, you're shy, you must be an introvert.

Grant Harris [00:19:50]:
Or you're an introvert, you must be shy. That's not necessarily the case. I can talk to people, I can go out, I can be on camera, I give keynote speeches. That doesn't make me shy, but I'm still introverted. And just because you are shy or that it takes you a minute to warm up to people, it takes you a minute to absorb all of the things that are happening at one time. And you're not just jumping in and diving in. That doesn't make you bad. That doesn't mean that you're hiding something, doesn't mean that you're a shady character in some way, shape or form.

Grant Harris [00:20:22]:
So I really, I don't have many pet peeves, but that's one when it comes to this conversation of introversion, that people get it mixed up with shyness and they just go too straight. Or you're shy and then shyness somehow is a negative attribute. It's bad because you aren't. I've actually heard people say that. Oh, I just wish my kids aren't shy. Not that I want my kids to be healthy. I want my kids to be articulate. I want my kids, I just don't want them to be shy.

Grant Harris [00:20:51]:
And that's just a pet peeve of mine.

David Hall [00:20:54]:
Yeah. And the truth is extroverts can be shy too. And there might be different causes, but the whole thing is, my thing is are you getting what you want? If you're being quiet and that's and you're getting everything you want, you're not afraid to ask for what you need, great. But if you are lacking confidence, you can gain it. And part of gaining confidence for me is understanding these things that we're talking about, being self aware, understanding what you need. I too like to speak. I'm not shy anymore. I'm always going to be an introvert.

David Hall [00:21:27]:
I don't call anything extroverted. I love giving speeches. I need to prepare differently probably than my extroverted friends. I also need to plan some downtime. Just like after this grant, guess what? I'm not scheduled for anything for at least an hour. I have that downtime just in case I need it.

Grant Harris [00:21:44]:
Yeah, no, I get it. And same for me. And after talking a lot or after heavy thinking, after deep discussion, after an argument or disagreements, I won't talk for a good amount of time. Like, I'll be silent. And I've learned to express that to other people. Other people have learned to understand that from me. But that's just the way of recharging the batteries, which is introversion, slash autism. And any way you want to put it, but that does not equal shyness.

Grant Harris [00:22:22]:
And shyness does not equal bad, harmful, derogatory, or any type of negative connotation. It's in the vein for me with the word normal, and normal for me on the autism side, same kind of pet peeve. That's not normal. Can you do this? Normal? What is normal? There is no normal. There just is. You just are. And David's not normal, and I'm not normal, and David is normal. And shyness, when people talk about that in society and in the workplace and how folks are ostracized and how certain ways of being are demonized, that's a lot of why I do this work and talk about the things that I do.

David Hall [00:23:05]:
Yeah, absolutely. So, Grant, let's talk a little bit more about your autism diagnosis and why you decided to do that. It wasn't that long ago. And how was it helpful to you?

Grant Harris [00:23:17]:
That was my wife 100. I probably would not be diagnosed today if it wasn't for my wife. I've told this story in many conversations, but if you've been married for any length of time or in a significant relationship, any length of time, you know that communication is a roller coaster. It's great, and it sucks and everywhere in between. So we were on the downside of communication for a good while, and we were just butting heads. And she had thought that I might be autistic for some time. She had brought it up to my family, and then she sent me a listicle, I like to call them, a list of 10 reasons why your. Your spouse may be autistic.

Grant Harris [00:23:54]:
And she was like, read this. And I read it, and eight of them. I was like, yeah, that's me. Yeah, I do that. Yeah, I feel that way. Yeah, I think that way. And this is after I had been in education, after I'd been a special educator. I had taught autistic kids, and I was doing diversity work.

Grant Harris [00:24:12]:
So I was open to exploring further, which led to a diagnosis, which I'M very fortunate to have had not everyone can afford it. Not everyone has access to it. I am a psychology psychologist by trade. I have friends who own their psychological practices and who gave me referrals. So I was extremely privileged in that way and thankful for the opportunity to get diagnosed, to learn more about myself from a formal perspective. But diagnosis is not the end all be all. I don't suggest that everyone get diagnosed. I do suggest that everyone take every step possible to learn more about themselves and who they are and how their traits show up in the world so that they can intrinsically value themselves as a human and then be able to express that to other people extrinsically.

Grant Harris [00:24:59]:
So that was. That's the short version of my story, which was about four years ago in the spring. And since then, it was about two years after my diagnosis was the first time that I publicly spoke about being autistic on LinkedIn. That was one of my best performing posts up until today, announcing the fact that I was autistic and how that showed up for me. And ever since then I've been talking to folks like you and audiences like yours about being autistic and now about being an introvert as well.

David Hall [00:25:30]:
Yeah. So how was the diagnosis helpful to you? Just getting it recently.

Grant Harris [00:25:37]:
Several ways. Personally and professionally. Personally understanding how I communicate with my wife and how my wife communicates with me, how I relate to people, my family, my kids, my family, my mothers and sisters, helping them understand why I did certain things over the years and why I didn't, why I reacted a certain way when I got frustrated, when people would just like same day, be like, hey, let's go to lunch an hour. And I'd be like, that would frustrate me because I didn't have any time. I already had a routine, already had a schedule. My sister used to call me, jokingly, she used to call me Rain man because I did certain things in a routine over and over again and all of that. And so it was eye opening from that perspective to say, oh, that's why I felt that way at that time in life. That's why I reacted that way in that time of life professionally.

Grant Harris [00:26:33]:
It gave me an opportunity to now be a protected class as a person with a disability, as a disabled person, excuse me, be a protected class. And to use, to understand my traits, to use them to my advantage in the workplace, meaning my capacity for recall, meaning my structure, my routine, meaning my ability to hyper focus on a task with a whole bunch of chaos happening around me and still produce and execute that task. So all of these things help me in the workplace and my business in the way that I communicate to people like you and audiences like yours. So it's been very helpful. And without it, I can't say that my life would be worse because I didn't think my life was bad before. But I do think that I have a fuller and deeper and better understanding of myself. And definitely my connection to my family and loved ones is deeper from that perspective and their understanding of me. And I have found a niche in my professional life.

Grant Harris [00:27:41]:
I'm not the only person talking about neurodiversity. I'm not the only person talking about being autistic, but I do it in my way. Being late diagnosed, being a man of color, achieving the things that I have and then failing the ways that I have, talking about moving from compliance to community and talking about from the boardroom to the mail room and these aspects. So I do it in my own way. And I've been able to carve out my own corner of this neurodistinct universe. So it's been helpful for me from those perspectives. Yeah.

David Hall [00:28:14]:
And I love how you describe the strengths. That's so important. So were you talking about neurodiversity prior to this or this kind of was a catalyst to start talking about neurodiversity?

Grant Harris [00:28:26]:
Oh, definitely the catalyst. But my work in this field before was focused on the D, the E, and I, and it wasn't so much about the A. And I was aware of neurodiversity from afar. I had heard of it, these kind of things. But again, at that time, I didn't see myself as disabled. I didn't see myself as autistic. So I wasn't focused on that portion. I was more focused on people of color and equity and access from that perspective.

Grant Harris [00:28:59]:
And it opened up my eyes when I started looking at accessibility. And there's many different forms of accessibility, but my first steps into accessibility were from the disability perspective. Before I knew about this, I was doing contracting work with the federal government, and they were transitioning a particular program from just the DEI initiative to a DEIA initiative. And that's where my focus really started, on accessibility. And then that's where my diagnosis came. And after my diagnosis, I jumped off into the deep end of neurodiversity overall, especially with my wife being ADHD and medicated and with her experience as well.

David Hall [00:29:43]:
Yeah, when you talk about neurodiversity, you. There's a few different terms that you use. Would you describe those and why it's important to know the distinction between the different terms.

Grant Harris [00:29:52]:
Yeah, quick hitters. There's really three terms. Neurodiversity, neuro, the divergent and neurodistinct. Neurodiversity includes all of us because we all have a brain and we all have a nervous system. Because neuro means your nervous system. And quick point about that. Neurodiversity is not just your brain, it's about your nervous system. And your nervous system runs throughout your entire body.

Grant Harris [00:30:16]:
It doesn't just stick in your brain, it's the way that you think and the way that you act and behave. Most people think it's just the way way that you think and they leave it at that. And I'll get off the soapbox there. But neurodiversity, we all have a brain, we all have a nervous system. So we are all in. Your brain is different than mine. Although it's a brain, it operates differently. Neurodiverse.

Grant Harris [00:30:39]:
Neurodivergent, as the formal term would say, is someone that is not, does not think in a typical way. Which is where you get neurotypical. And neurotypical is decided by society, is decided by the medical field, the medical industry. That's who gets to say this is what typical is. If you diverge. And divergent means going left or right of center, and center would be typical. So if you diverge away from that, then you think differently, you behave differently. Neurodivergent.

Grant Harris [00:31:13]:
I choose the third term, which is neurodistinct. I believe that we are all distinct human beings, you and I, because I believe that our creator created us distinctly and that we have the right as humans to live a life full of distinction. So instead of it being negative, diverging from what the majority sees as normal, distinction includes all of us, you, me, everybody. Because we're all distinct human beings and we all deserve to live a life full of distinction. So diverse includes everybody because we all have a brain, even though it works differently. Divergent is a medical and sociological term that the majority place to say you act and think differently than the norm. And neurodistinct is an identity first way to describe a human centered approach that we all deserve to live a life full of distinction.

David Hall [00:32:13]:
Yeah, I love those distinctions. That is really helpful. And yes, guess what? We are all different. Everybody has their own gifts and that comes with needs, but we are all bring our own gifts to the table. And earlier you said you didn't like the word normal and I don't either. So Grant, you work with organizations. What Are some misconceptions about neurodiversity that you encounter?

Grant Harris [00:32:38]:
Oh, lots of, Dave, but I'll try to keep it to three. One is that somehow it only affects those people over there. Okay, Neurodiverse people are over in the corner. They're on the other floor. They do their own thing. It's not something that affects all of us because it does affect all of us. That's one. Two, that it is something to be fixed, it is something to be handled, it is something to be solved, and it's not.

Grant Harris [00:33:17]:
Three is that somehow it is novel and new. Somehow these things have just either popped up or. Or because someone hasn't heard of it before, that it's a new TikTok thing because everybody is saying it on social media and it's not. People have always thought this way. People have always behaved this way. It's been called different things from ancestral times up until now. It is not new, it's not novel. It's been around a long time.

Grant Harris [00:33:51]:
So those three are large. One, that it's about them over there and us over here and there's a divide between us and them. Two, that it's something to be fixed or solved. And three, that it is something new and novel that just popped up on the scene and that somehow it's a trend or a fad. And in five years, nobody's going to be talking about neurodiversity. That is the furthest from the truth.

David Hall [00:34:20]:
Yeah. Like you said, our personalities have been around since the beginning. And it is still fascinating to me and disturbing to me that we don't understand our personalities yet. 2025 Introversion is still very misunderstood. Neurodiversity is still very misunderstood.

Grant Harris [00:34:37]:
And it's.

David Hall [00:34:37]:
That's why we're doing what we're doing. We're trying to continue to bring that understanding about the strengths and needs of our personalities. So what are some strategies that you bring to organizations to help understand and support employees?

Grant Harris [00:34:56]:
So in my first book, I created a framework called race. And keep in mind, I wrote my first book, actually all three of them before I knew I was autistic, before I had a diagnosis. So technically, none of my books talk about neurodiversity because I wasn't in that lane at that time, but that's okay. So the race framework is an acronym. R A C E. Recognize, acknowledge, cultivate and engage. Recognize who and where you are. Now, this framework can be implemented across an organization or within a specific leadership team.

Grant Harris [00:35:34]:
It doesn't matter. It's flexible. That way or recognize who and where you are as an organization or as a person. What are your values, what are your principles and where are you on your path, on your journey as a business or as an individual? Acknowledge. You have to acknowledge your impact, your intent and your impact. Two different things. David, I didn't intend to insult you, but I did. And the impact was that I insulted you.

Grant Harris [00:36:03]:
So what was the intent? What was the impact? As a business organization we intend to to serve these people with this product or service but it's impacting these people in this negative way. And you have to acknowledge that Cultivate is all about education and learning. How are you learning more about yourself as an organization? How are you learning more about yourself as a department or team? What resources and tools are at your disposal in order to increase and enhance and exponentially utilize that knowledge? So cultivation. And then last but not least is e engage. You got to do the work. Got to do it, got to try it. You got to practice it. You have to put it into motion.

Grant Harris [00:36:53]:
So you do all of the headi work of who am I and thinking and then you do the educational work in theory but you have to put it into practice and engage. So this is a cyclical framework. You can be in one spot for a good while. You can be in multiple spots. You can go and be in C and have to come back to R as you're cultivating that education. Who you thought you were six months ago is not who you are now. So it's always cyclical. This is the framework that I take and approach to working with organizations when it's focused on neurodiversity and implementing neuro inclusive practices.

Grant Harris [00:37:37]:
Because the goal is to implement and integrate and improve neuro inclusive policies, practices and procedures throughout the organization.

David Hall [00:37:48]:
Yeah, and along with that you also talk about going from compliance to community. What do you mean by that?

Grant Harris [00:37:56]:
So that is a mindset approach. Compliance is checklist to check the box. We have black people because the law says we should. We have disabled people because we met our quota. That's the compliance part. Now don't get me wrong, people should comply with the law. The law is there to comply. Say you need to do this but that is the bare minimum and that's not the ceiling.

Grant Harris [00:38:20]:
The ceiling is the moving to community. Meaning that yeah, we're supposed to have X amount because we have this quota but one why do we have a quarter in the first place? Why don't we just have these people here and if we have these people here, are we giving them the Best chance to succeed. So it's about moving from a mindset of I'm doing it or we do it just because we have to. And we do it to meet the bare minimum to we do it because we want to and we need to in order to be sustainable as a business, in order to be. To build brand loyalty with our customers, whoever they may be, and to provide an excellent employee experience for people that work for the organization. Compliance in and of itself is not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if you stay at that level. If you move through to community and you ascend and you excel and you ascend towards organizational excellence, which is the goal.

Grant Harris [00:39:21]:
And excellence is different for every organization. Looks different for you than it does for me. And that's why we have to go through the process to find out what that excellence is. But excellence is never at the level of compliance. Excellence is only achieved at the level of community.

David Hall [00:39:37]:
Yeah. Do you have any other advice for building community?

Grant Harris [00:39:43]:
Certainly it starts at home and it starts with the individual. And that goes back to thinking about your thinking. That goes back to being open to new sources of knowledge, new conversations, difficult conversations. It really starts there with the individual. Because a leader at the top can say, oh, we're going to go left. And just because the leader at the top says we're going to go left doesn't mean that message gets all the way to the bottom of the chain. Just like when you used to play games in elementary school or the phone tag game. And the message at the beginning of the call is not the same message at the end.

Grant Harris [00:40:19]:
So that message starts with the person who either is the least among us in title or in tenure, or the person or the people who are impacted the most, if those people, and if that person can communicate and internalize the message from the top, then you have something because that message has gone through the entire organization. So it's always, if you're a leader, you should be thinking, who is most impacted by this policy, by this practice, who is most harmed, who would be the first to be left out? And if you can get at that person or those people and have them be champions with you and for you as an organization, you have much more opportunity and a much higher chance of achieving that level of excellence. However it's defined for that organization, you have a much higher probability of achieving that. Versus the top said, yeah, we're an inclusive organization, but the top thinks that, but the middle doesn't understand that in the bottom doesn't feel that. So if everyone is not feeling that level of community. Now, I'm not saying that it's going to be Kumbaya and it's going to happen at the same time. You have struggles. But if the message is getting passed along and not just getting passed along, but getting practiced, then over time that organization is going to have a better opportunity.

Grant Harris [00:41:52]:
Awesome.

David Hall [00:41:54]:
Grant, this conversation has been wonderful and it's gone by pretty quickly. Is there anything else you want to add today?

Grant Harris [00:42:01]:
Yeah, it has gone by quickly. I appreciate the opportunity. Again, this is my first time talking about personal introversion and all of that. I've been talking about it for years. So I appreciate you, David. I appreciate your audience and giving me the chance to be here. I go back to what I mentioned before. I always leave these conversations with the fact that we are all distinct human beings and we deserve to live a life full of distinction.

Grant Harris [00:42:24]:
And I stand on that and I believe that and that's why I continue to do what I do today.

David Hall [00:42:30]:
All right, said on that. And then of course, where can people find out more about you and your work?

Grant Harris [00:42:35]:
Yeah, so you can find the books on Amazon. I am on LinkedIn. You'll have all of the in the show notes, all of that. But compliancetocommunity.com is my website. You can find me on LinkedIn and you can find the books on Amazon and I'll be sure you have all that for your listeners in the show notes as well.

David Hall [00:42:54]:
Sounds great. Thanks again, Grant.

Grant Harris [00:42:56]:
Thank you, David. Appreciate it.

David Hall [00:42:58]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and Strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:43:38]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.