Ep 241 - Embracing the Strengths of Sensitivity and Neurodiversity with Rachel Radway

What if everything you’ve been told is a weakness is actually one of your greatest strengths? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with leadership coach, speaker, and author Rachel Radway to explore the often-misunderstood gifts of sensitivity and neurodiversity.

Listeners will discover what it truly means to be highly sensitive and neurodivergent, and why these traits are essential assets—especially in leadership and the modern workplace. Rachel shares her personal journey of self-discovery, overcoming stigma, and embracing her unique qualities. She explains how her clients often come to her believing something is “wrong” with them, only to realize they’re far from alone and possess powerful skills like empathy, intuition, and deep perception.

Listeners should tune in to better understand themselves or the perceptive, neurodivergent people on their teams, and to challenge outdated notions about what makes an effective leader. If you’re ready to see your gifts in a new light—and help others do the same—this episode is for you.

Listen, learn, embrace your strengths, and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/241

Rachel Radway is a certified leadership coach, mentor, speaker, and author with 25+ years’ experience in corporate leadership roles in startups, national nonprofits, and global enterprises. Rachel helps high-achieving, highly perceptive and neurodivergent clients learn to lead with confidence, clarity and authenticity—and without burning out. Her book, Perceptive, has received endorsements and rave reviews from leaders from diverse backgrounds across industries.

Connect with Rachel:LinkedIn

Website: rercoaching.com

Get Rachel's Book: Perceptive

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Transcript

Rachel Radway [00:00:00]:
They all do. And this is one of the things I talk about. A lot people come and they think, whether they. Whether they consciously think it or not, a lot of them have grown up. And even as I mentioned, the messages continue on into adulthood, hearing, you're broken, you're crazy, you're doing things the wrong way, you're too much, you're not enough. And they feel very alone. And that was one of the things about originally reading Elaine Aaron's book that struck me. I'm not alone.

Rachel Radway [00:00:33]:
If 30% of the population actually has this trait. Right. That's a whole lot of people. But so many people have never heard about it and so many people have a misunderstanding of what it means. Sensitivity still has stigma in our culture. And especially when you're talking about working in the corporate world, working in leadership, nobody wants to be called sensitive, right? That sounds like a flaw.

David Hall [00:01:07]:
Hello and welcome to episode 241 of the Quiet Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David hall, and the creator of Quietestrong.com this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and also help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast, help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Rachel Radway is a certified leadership coach, mentor, speaker, and author with 25 years of experience in corporate leadership roles in startups, national nonprofits, and global enterprises. Rachel helps high achieving, highly perceptive and neurodivergent clients learn to lead with confidence, clarity, and authority.

David Hall [00:02:07]:
And without burning out. Her book, Perceptive has received endorsements and rave reviews from leaders from diverse backgrounds across industries. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Rachel. Rachel, so good to have you on today.

Rachel Radway [00:02:22]:
Thank you, David. I'm thrilled to be here. I know we're going to have a great conversation.

David Hall [00:02:27]:
Yeah, we're going to get into your book and the coaching that you do. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey to the work that you do now.

Rachel Radway [00:02:35]:
It has been a very long, twisty, windy journey I started. It's funny actually, because I was talking with a friend the other night and she reminded me of a couple of things that I did long, long ago that were actually different forms of coaching that I had completely forgotten about. But I really started out career Wise in tech, I fell into it by accident. I had always been a writer and I ended up doing content strategy and user experience writing in various tech roles. And that led to some work in communications which I have done quite a lot of, and then some other things. So I've worked in brand management, brand management. I've worked in operations of different kinds and that brought me back to. I've also, I've also taken a long sabbatical which brought me it to a number of different countries.

Rachel Radway [00:03:26]:
It's been, it definitely has been anything but a straight line. And then several years ago when I had come back into the tech world, I was working for a small startup that I loved and I had actually gone to work for them in the content strategy area but had pivoted to design operations and it was really more team operations and employee experience work that I was doing within a design team. And then I was laid off because this was one of the companies that just, it boomed during COVID They were about 200 people when I got there and about a thousand when the first round of layoffs happened. And I decided at that point to do something I had wanted to do for many, many years, which was get trained and certified as a coach. So I did that. I loved the training. I really enjoyed. Felt like a good fit for the first time in probably my whole career.

Rachel Radway [00:04:26]:
And I was going to build that business on the side while I was still working. I actually got a contract job after the layoffs. But the job that I got, the contract role, it was a very toxic environment and I started cutting down my hours while I was still in it. And by the time the contract was up, I was just done. So I went off and started my business full time. And it's been an adventure all the way.

David Hall [00:04:51]:
Awesome. And we're going to get into the details of that, like what your coaching and your book consists of. You're a fellow introvert. Today we're going to talk about being highly sensitive and neurodivergent. What do those things mean to you and did you have to learn to embrace your traits?

Rachel Radway [00:05:10]:
I absolutely did have to learn to embrace them. And they mean, they mean a lot of different things. And one part of my message is that it really isn't about the words or the labels. It really is about, I love the word you use. It really is about embracing the gifts that we all have that are the other side of the coin from the challenges. And so many of us, especially introverts, especially highly sensitive people, we tend to focus on the Challenges because we are in the minority and the world wasn't necessarily designed for people like us. So we struggle with things that we don't see other people around us struggling with, and we tend to forget or lose sight of the things that are gifts. And I first learned that I was.

Rachel Radway [00:05:57]:
Well, I first learned that there was a population that was highly sensitive way back in, I think the early 2000s, was when Elaine Aaron, the psychologist who first used that term, came out with her book the Highly Sensitive Person. I read the book. It resonated very strongly with me. Parts of it, parts of it didn't. But I had always thought I was alone. I grew up getting the message that I was too sensitive and that I had to grow a thicker skin and that I couldn't have things my way. And if it was too noisy or too loud, that was too bad. I just had to deal with that.

Rachel Radway [00:06:34]:
So I always felt very alone. And that followed me through school, through work, because again, the world isn't designed for people who are highly sensitive to things. So I read Elaine Aaron's book a few years after it came out, and I. It was. It was eye opening, and yet not all of it stuck with me. I kind of forgot about it for a while. And it wasn't until three or four years ago that a whole series of events happened that was either coincidental or fate, if you don't believe in coincidence. And I ended up rereading the book and then reading a couple of other books.

Rachel Radway [00:07:10]:
And there are some that just came out more recently that are, I think, even better than the original one. And it hit me that when I started my coaching business, I knew I wanted to work with women leaders. I hadn't gotten any more specific than that, but looking back from that point of rereading Elaine Aaron's book, every leader who had been drawn to work with me shared a set of traits. And although most of them had never heard the term and didn't really identify with a specific population, they were all highly sensitive in different ways. Around the same time, another series of events led me to get assessed for adhd. And I learned that not only do I have adhd, I also have some autistic traits. And putting the all of those pieces together helped me reflect on my life and on patterns and systems and challenges that I had had in a way that I never had before. Everything started to fall into place along with the high sensitivity.

Rachel Radway [00:08:20]:
And I realized that all of those things are really what made me who I am. And there are a lot of gifts and Superpowers that come with that combination of traits. And that was one of the things that a lot of the clients who come to me haven't yet learned to embrace. So that's why I'm doing the work that I'm doing now. And that's where the book came from.

David Hall [00:08:46]:
Yeah. And yes, we both say these are gifts, these are strengths. We're wired differently, you know, and it's. It's just a matter of understanding. So do a lot of the clients, even though they can't put a term to it, do they feel like something's wrong with them?

Rachel Radway [00:09:03]:
They all do. And this is one of the things I talk about a lot. People come and they think. Whether they. Whether they consciously think it or not, a lot of them have grown up. And even, as I mentioned, the messages continue on into adulthood, hearing, you're broken, you're crazy, you're doing things the wrong way, you're too much, you're not enough. And they feel very alone. And that was one of the things about originally reading Elaine Aaron's book that struck me.

Rachel Radway [00:09:36]:
I'm not alone. If 30% of the population actually has this trait. Right. That's a whole lot of people. But so many people have never heard about it, and so many people have a misunderstanding of what it means. Sensitivity still has stigma in our culture. And especially when you're talking about working in the corporate world, working in leadership, nobody wants to be called sensitive. Right.

Rachel Radway [00:10:01]:
That sounds like a flaw. It's the same thing with neurodivergence. And technically, we know no two brains are actually wired the same way. Right. So every brain is different. And yet there's still, again, so much misunderstanding and stigma around these terms that are different from. I'm using air quotes here. The typical or the neurotypical.

Rachel Radway [00:10:27]:
That. That's. That's what I'm trying to do, is help people understand that it is the differences that actually bring in all of these gifts. And that's what makes diverse teams more effective, too.

David Hall [00:10:41]:
Absolutely. So for those that don't know, describe what it means to be highly sensitive. And of course, that can be many things.

Rachel Radway [00:10:51]:
It can be many things. And I'm glad you said that. One of the metaphors that I use is if you think about a sound mixing board that has lots and lots and lots of channels that you can dial up or down, we all have one. We all have a different pattern of them. The higher the channels are dialed up, the more sensitive you are to that thing. And I'll get back to the things in a Moment. And the more channels overall that you have dialed up, the more sensitive you are overall. There are, I consider it sort of three main areas of sensitivity.

Rachel Radway [00:11:27]:
One of them is environmental stimuli. And that can be sound. It can be scents and odors and fragrances. It can be taste. It can be temperature changes. It can be colors discerning different shades and hues and nuances and things like that. A lot of people are very sensitive to things like tags on the back of clothing or seams on their socks or, you know, in other clothing or textures. Cigarette smoke.

Rachel Radway [00:11:59]:
I mean, there's. There's an endless variety of things that you can be sensitive to. I'm. I'm one of those people who's pretty much sensitive to all of them. Then there are the two other buckets that I think about, just to oversimplify, are emotions. So being more sensitive to both our own emotions and other people's and energies of various kinds. And that one, it's a little bit harder to define. But again, everybody has a different pattern.

Rachel Radway [00:12:28]:
There are some people who are very sensitive in one area and not in the others, and there are other people who are sensitive in all of them. And it can manifest in different ways, and it can also be contextual. So it's not like you're sensitive to all the things every day your whole life. One of the things that I've learned is hormones can make a really big difference. And there are days when I am more sensitive to pain, for example, than others, depending on my cycle. Hormones also can affect a lot of other things, as we know. So that comes into a different part of the mix. But that's kind of the way I think about sensitivity and what we're sensitive to.

David Hall [00:13:08]:
Yeah, we're definitely going to get into it more. What. What caused you to explore, you know, the ADHD and autism? It sounds like it was fairly recent.

Rachel Radway [00:13:18]:
It was, and it was interesting. You know, I think a lot of us, especially those of us who are over 40, say, had a very specific idea of neurodivergence in mind, if we were even familiar with the term and the language around it. And that was because in the 70s and in the 80s, only a very, very specific type of person was ever considered able to be neurodivergent. And nobody that was outside that type would ever have been assessed. And that type was basically a young white male, usually children, usually very early on, like six or seven. And a lot of the time, the only reason that someone started to assess them was because they were acting up in school. They were Misbehaving, Right. Or they weren't focusing.

Rachel Radway [00:14:07]:
I was always a good student. I never had a problem, you know, focusing. I was never hyperactive. And yet I always knew that I was different and that I didn't think like other kids around me. Now, I was really fortunate in that I went to a school for gifted children. So there was a series of exams we took, and it was a public school, but you had to pass all these exams and things to get in. I was surrounded by a lot of kids who were very different, were wired differently, thought differently, but there I know how privileged I was to be in that kind of scenario. And then, of course, you know, you get out of school and you're in the real world and things don't work like that.

Rachel Radway [00:14:50]:
And all through my career, I have noticed how differently I seem to operate from people around me. So a few years ago, I was doing a. I was presenting a panel at a professional conference, and one of the other conference presenters did a session on her adhd. Now, the conference was about a different topic, so this was unusual. And she really got my attention with her presentation and the things that she talked about. So I reached out to her after the conference, and we had a number of conversations. She was very kind and generous with her time, and I asked her a lot of questions about her experience because she was diagnosed as an adult. And when I started hearing more about her story and her experiences and what had led her to get the assessment, I thought, there's a lot in there that sounds really familiar to me, so maybe I should get it checked out.

Rachel Radway [00:15:51]:
And I did. And I actually talk about my experience getting assessed in the book. And it was not universally positive. It was. It also wasn't negative, but it was. It was challenging in a number of ways. Also, the. I saw two different doctors, and one of them said, yes, absolutely, and the other one said, no, definitely not.

Rachel Radway [00:16:12]:
I tend to go with the first one for a number of reasons, but the ADHD by itself, just that diagnosis. And I. And I, of course, started researching all of the different types of ADHD and the way that it manifests. It still didn't quite 100% explain everything. There was still. It felt like there was a piece missing. When I was researching my book, I interviewed a woman. Her story is in there.

Rachel Radway [00:16:40]:
Her name is Claire Kumar, who had recently herself learned that she was autistic. And she learned from one of the conversations that she had with a guest on her podcast and the conversation that she had. I went back and listened to that episode. I I've been listening to all of her episodes, but I went back and listened to that one, and I thought, huh, there's more that's sounding familiar to me. So I. I have not been formally assessed. I took a ton of online assessments of various kinds for autism, and generally I came out in the sort of gray area. My own experiences actually going through the assessments kind of reinforce the fact that I do have some autistic traits.

Rachel Radway [00:17:30]:
But the reason I say autistic traits and not I am autistic is because it sounds like, by most medical professionals, definitions, I would be what they call subclinical. So not obviously autistic. But to me, that combination of the ADHD and the autism makes a huge amount of sense because the traits influence each other in interesting ways. And everyone I know who considers themselves as having Audi HD or the combination of the two has had some similar experiences.

David Hall [00:18:08]:
Yeah. So a couple questions, and you can separate these two, but what challenges did you face with ADHD and autism? And then how did learning more about it help you overcome those challenges and see any strengths that came with them?

Rachel Radway [00:18:28]:
Great question. So, for the first part, one of the things that has always been a source of frustration for me, and I think for some members of my family, is I get bored very easily. I'm very quick to pick up new things and new jobs and new roles and new information and even new hobbies. And I do them for a while because I love to learn new things. But when I get bored, when I'm no longer learning, when I'm no longer feeling challenged in a good way, it's time for me to move on. It's time for me to do something else. And that isn't the reason for all the different jobs I've had. There have been a lot of layoffs because I was in tech and other things as well.

Rachel Radway [00:19:15]:
But I definitely. I have a pattern of having had a lot of jobs and also having moved a lot to a lot of different places. I love exploring new cultures. I've lived in nine countries. To a lot of people, that sounds completely insane. And one of the challenges on the autistic side or for the autistic traits is I really like structure. I really don't like changes in my routine, especially when somebody else is in control of it. So if I decide to do something different, like pick up and move to a different country, you know, that's one thing.

Rachel Radway [00:19:51]:
But if I get laid off from a job, that's a completely different kind of experience, and somebody else has control over my My destiny. Right. So those two things may sound like they contradict each other in a way, you know, really like structure and order, and yet needs a lot of change. And that's one of the things that I learned. Makes complete sense. In the context of ADHD or the combination of the two things. I can extrapolate and talk about the way those challenges have influenced me or affected me in different ways. But I'd rather talk about your second question, which is how do they become strengths? And how have they helped me deal more effectively with some of the challenges? So through my both personal experience, my research for writing the book, my working with and talking with dozens and even hundreds of different people, some clients, some not, I've started to understand that some of the things that.

Rachel Radway [00:20:57]:
Well, I've started to understand, really, that they are two sides of the same coin. You can't have the challenges without the gifts, and you can't have the gifts without the challenges. And I think even just thinking about it that way and that little bit of a reframe can help us deal with the challenges more effectively. But I know what I'm really good at. I know that I am because my brain is constantly downloading lots and lots and lots of different pieces of information, and the filters that are present in a lot of people's brains when they're neurotypical are absent in my brain. I am really good at making connections out of seemingly nowhere. Call it intuition. I think that's a piece of it.

Rachel Radway [00:21:44]:
I was. I was researching intuition a lot for the book, but I can connect the dots very, very quickly and see connections that other people don't always see. And that is amazing for strategic thinking. It's amazing for looking at the potential consequences of something several steps down the line. It also helps recognize problems that I've had in the past. So an example that I use a lot is in one of my corporate roles. Years ago, I was given 360 feedback by a manager that there was a perception that I was not a team player and that I was stepping on other people's ideas. And when I got that feedback, I cried.

Rachel Radway [00:22:32]:
I was crushed because that was so far from my intention. That was. I loved supporting people and mentoring people, and I was there to support the team, and I couldn't. I didn't know what to do with this, and I didn't know where it was coming from. And what I learned later was this. The fact that I was connecting so many pieces of information that other people weren't necessarily. I was skipping a few steps Right. In my effort to try to get the team moving forward in a way that I thought was going to get us to the next step, I didn't necessarily explain why I was skipping over something, but I was like, nah, that won't work.

Rachel Radway [00:23:16]:
You know, let's move on to the next thing. Of course, it felt like I was stomping on people's ideas. Like, I can totally understand where that came from. And because I am so empathetic, it actually hurts to know that I did that and that people felt that way because of me. But now, knowing all of this, I communicate very differently. And I can also just shut up and not say anything when there's something like a brainstorming activity going on. So I can. I can choose my response based on whatever the activity is and the people that are in it.

Rachel Radway [00:23:51]:
But definitely, I mean, that's, you know, the feedback that I get today from clients, for example, in my testimonials is the polar opposite of what I was getting before, because now I understand what's going on.

David Hall [00:24:05]:
Yeah, it sounds like it had a good result eventually. But sometimes these anonymous feedback can be harmful, you know, because you don't know, like you said, you don't know where it's coming from and you don't know the context. Sometimes all the things that we're talking about. If people don't understand strengths, they could be just judging you. Like, they think that, you know by their standards and that, you know, you. You have a different approach. So anyway, yeah, I think there's good ways to get feedback, but often the anonymous feedback, it can be harmful if not done right.

Rachel Radway [00:24:44]:
I totally agree with you. And, you know, one of the other things, and there's a whole section on this in my book about both giving and receiving feedback, people especially who are highly sensitive and it. And it comes up in people who are neurodivergent too, particularly with adhd, there's actually a phenomenon called rejection sensitivity dysphoria. And not everyone who is neurodivergent has it. Not everyone who is highly sensitive is sensitive specifically to feedback. But those of us who do have it have makes a big difference. We can take feedback very, very, very personally. And so one of the things we need to do is learn, first of all, how to separate ourselves from our actions and our projects and other things.

Rachel Radway [00:25:35]:
Just because we get feedback on something we did doesn't mean that the feedback is meant about us as human beings. The other thing we need to learn is, you said sometimes the anonymous feedback can be helpful. Not everyone knows how to give feedback in a way that is constructive. And there are all kinds of reasons why people might give negative feedback. So you have to learn how to take the pieces apart, use what is helpful and constructive for you, and disregard the rest. And, you know, if you have some trusted advisors or mentors or friends who will really tell you the truth, but in a kind way, talk to them about what you hear. Because some people have agendas, some people just aren't sensitive themselves and don't even think about delivering it in a way that might land more softly. So, yeah, feedback can be tough.

David Hall [00:26:32]:
Yeah. But the last thing that you said, find someone that has your best interests at heart. You know, that's probably the best feedback you're going to get, you know?

Rachel Radway [00:26:43]:
Absolutely.

David Hall [00:26:44]:
So, Rachel, I've been enjoying your book Perceptive. I'm going to read the subtitle, Insights for Leaders who Feel More Process Deeply and Think Differently. Tell us about your book and what perceptive means to you.

Rachel Radway [00:26:59]:
I am glad you asked that. So I had, so I've actually been a writer since I was a child. I, I won a school wide award for a book that I wrote in, I don't know, second or third grade. I have long thought about writing books and there were several that were sort of, that I have either started or, or, you know, kind of turned into a project and never quite got there. This was a book that I had not planned on writing. I was approached about a year and a half ago by a publisher and I had been approached by several and I had dismissed most of them, you know, outreach on LinkedIn, just because they were looking for money. There was something different about this one and I decided to have a conversation with him and then we had another conversation. And what really stood out to me was he was a good listener and he immediately understood the challenge that I had of reaching out to leaders who didn't necessarily want to be called by the term highly sensitive and hadn't, not hadn't necessarily even heard the term in the first place.

Rachel Radway [00:28:07]:
So we were in the middle of this conversation and trying to figure it out and I said, I definitely don't want to call a book highly sensitive, but I'm really struggling with the whole language thing. And he said, what about perceptive? And I just stopped for a minute and I started looking at it from a number of different angles. And he started looking at it from a number of different angles. And then we each asked people. It is universally considered a positive word. I mean, there are no drawbacks to being considered perceptive. And if you look at the definitions of the word through any lens, they all map in various ways to aspects of high sensitivity. So that became the title for the book before I had even decided to write the book.

Rachel Radway [00:28:58]:
And when that fell into place, I really started thinking about, who is this book for? You know, what is the message that I want to get out? And it really is a lot about the work that I do with clients. So many. There are so many people out there who are smart and competent and capable and intuitive and creative, have all kinds of gifts. Often they don't consider them gifts themselves because either, as I said earlier, they're focused on the challenges or they think everybody has those things. They just don't see it as something that is, you know, special for them. And all of these people have gotten those messages that we were talking about also at the beginning of the call, at the, of the interview that, that they are broken or crazy or too much or too little or a lot of things. And I love working one on one with my clients. I will never give that up.

Rachel Radway [00:29:59]:
But there's only one of me and there's millions of people who, you know, figure out what, what 30% of the population is or more. I think it's actually probably higher than that 30%. So. Especially when you figure all of mirror divergence. So the more I thought about it, the more I realized I really want to get this message out to as many people as I can possibly get. And I will say that the book is definitely meant for two primary audiences. One is anyone who has ever been faced with those, any of those messages, the negative messaging. And two is anyone who is a people manager, a people leader, someone in HR or a people team, depending on what your organization calls it.

Rachel Radway [00:30:50]:
And I'm going to broaden it and say anyone whose work has an effect or an impact on organizational culture and inclusion, which not really a secret, but that's everybody. So that secondary audience is pretty broad, but especially anybody who works with other people, because even for those who don't identify with these traits personally, I guarantee, you know, work with, live with report to have as a direct report someone who does have these traits, whether or not you recognize it and whether or not they know it and it's just it. It helps make a more inclusive world in addition to more inclusive workspaces.

David Hall [00:31:39]:
Yeah, I love, I love that. Perceptive. It's unfortunate because terms like introvert or highly sensitive, they often come with this negative connotation. And it's really just describing some things that are. And you know, none of us are exactly the same, but we can learn from these definitions, like, oh, I am that way. I'm going to think often before I speak, or, you know, I'm going to be very sensitive to my environment, which is a good thing because, you know, all this comes from that. And it's unfortunate that these, these labels come with a negative connotation when they're really just meant to help.

Rachel Radway [00:32:20]:
It really is. And it's kind of. I know this sounds super dramatic, but the phrase that just came to me is crime against humanity. I mean, it really is. And a lot of damage has been done to people who have these traits by people who didn't necessarily mean to harm, but really just didn't have a clear understanding. And the good news, I think is that generationally this is changing. We know that millennials and Gen Z and Gen Alphas are, well, Gen Alphas are young still, but definitely millennials and Gen Z are claiming the identity of neurodivergence in much, much higher numbers than the generations that came before them. They're also much less willing to mask, to put on a Persona to hide their personalities or their traits, you know, just to fit in.

Rachel Radway [00:33:22]:
And as the medical profession gets a little bit savvier and starts understanding a little bit more that that's, you know, of what's going on and neuroscience progresses and all of these other associated things get a little bit more sophisticated. I think some of the stigma and the misunderstanding is, is changing very slowly, but I think it is changing.

David Hall [00:33:44]:
All right, well, our work goes on. Doesn't.

Rachel Radway [00:33:48]:
Does for, for a long time to come, I think. Yeah.

David Hall [00:33:51]:
So Rachel, how do you help your clients come to self awareness and understand their gifts and strengths?

Rachel Radway [00:33:56]:
I ask them a lot of questions. I do a lot of coaching things. I, I ask them to tell me about experiences that they've had and about things that they are recognized for and things that they are proud of. And I dig a little deeper and a little deeper and a little deeper until they start making those connections themselves. And sometimes they may have known it or suspected it, but just, it's really hard to get validation when you're, you know, feeling like other people are stronger or more confident. It can really eat away at your confidence in particular, especially if you work in a corporate, you know, environment, a tech environment, which can be particularly harsh. So I ask a lot of questions about things that make them happy and experiences and what they've been celebrated for and what they celebrate in themselves. And sometimes I, I have to push a little more And I suggest things.

Rachel Radway [00:35:02]:
Have you ever felt this way? Has this ever happened to you? You know, have you ever done X, Y or Z? And little by little, sometimes quicker, they will start to see that these things are true for them and that they're not necessarily true for other people around them. Sometimes we are so sorry. Sometimes we're so focused on. We're so driven and we're so focused on achieving and accomplishing that we haven't taken the time to reflect back. Which means we're not noticing that string of successes or we're not counting them because they weren't big, you know, name and lights kind of fame, but they were successes nonetheless.

David Hall [00:35:44]:
Yeah. So as you're working with clients, do you see a lot of light bulb moments?

Rachel Radway [00:35:50]:
I do, and I love it. It's. That's one of my favorite parts of coaching, is the changes that I can see in people's expressions and the way they light up and the way their energy changes when they feel seen and heard and validated, sometimes for the first time, which breaks my heart, but at the same time is why I do what I do.

David Hall [00:36:14]:
Yeah. And I know that you apply the understanding of being perceptive and neurodivergent to leadership. Tell us about that.

Rachel Radway [00:36:24]:
So this is such a tricky question because a lot of the leaders that I talk to and work with, they're afraid to talk about sensitivity. You know, again, it. It comes across as a flaw. They think that they will be seen. Seen as weaker than some of their colleagues if they disclose that they are more highly sensitive. And yet what I find almost universally is that these leaders, when they're in the right environments for them, are some of the most universally beloved and have loyal followings because of some of the gifts that they have, like deep empathy. They are the leaders who get to know every member of their team individually and understand what motivates them and what makes them tick and how they want to grow and develop in their roles. And they make it part of their business to support those people in those goals.

Rachel Radway [00:37:25]:
You would think that all leaders would do that, right? It should be part of a manager's job to do that. And yet a lot of managers are like, oh, Yeah, I manage 10 people. They just see it as this mass, this group of 10 people, and they don't see them as individuals. The empathy is one thing. The being able to read a room and understand what a group needs, which is absolutely critical in a lot of the situations that so many companies are dealing with now, you know, when there are still mass layoffs happening and when there's uncertainty and when there's bad news happening on a regular basis, you need leaders who can read the room and can understand what people are feeling and can know ahead of time what questions are going to come up and can plan for that. That's how great communication plans come up. You know, what do they need from us? What are they going to be asking? What are they going to be worried about? How can we proactively put this out there and ease people's fears and concerns? Those leaders are the ones that people really stand behind and follow from company to company.

David Hall [00:38:40]:
Yeah, that's definitely a myth that we bust about leadership and what people really want. Because, you know, often the myth is that, you know, people want this large and in charge leader, but what you were describing, where the leader takes time to get to know people, their strengths, their needs, making them feel seen and heard. That's what people really want.

Rachel Radway [00:39:03]:
You know, exactly the listening. So, you know, deep listening, whether you consider it an introvert strength or a highly sensitive strength, people who can listen deeply instead of just getting up and talking to hear themselves talk or to make a point for the fourth time, the people who listen, those are the ones who are valued and by the people, you know, who are paying attention to this and the people who report to them. And those people are great advisors too, because they have their ear to the ground and they know, you know, what's where the whispers are. Those are the people that are great to. If a CEO, for example, is not particularly highly sensitive or isn't an introvert, those are the people that CEO needs to surround themselves with.

David Hall [00:39:59]:
Yeah. What else would you say to leaders about being perceptive and neurodivergent? You know, so, you know, maybe what are some myths, but what do they need to know?

Rachel Radway [00:40:14]:
I think the most important things are, be yourself, be authentic, do your best. A lot of us have been masking throughout our lives unintentionally. It's not something we plan to do. We just, we're really good observers and we learn survival skills really quickly. As much as you can be your authentic self, let yourself respond in a way that is authentic and not just toeing the company line. If you disagree, we are, as Lyudmila Praslova says, we are the canaries in the coal mines. We are the early warning systems and that the smoke detectors, right. We see before the damage actually hits, what's going to happen.

Rachel Radway [00:41:03]:
And when you're hiding that, you're doing a disservice both to yourself and to the people who follow you and the people who rely on you. So if you are in an environment where you feel you cannot be yourself or speak up, please really consider what you're trading off, what you're compromising by staying in that kind of environment. And trust your intuition, trust your gut, because it's based on something it's not. You know, we, everyone has intuition, but especially in Western society, we're trained out of it. A lot of professions in particular go to school to learn how not to rely on it. Right. I'm thinking about lawyers, for example, who are trained to focus on the evidence. But intuition comes from so many valuable places and when you practice, it's a muscle that when you keep flexing, it really, really, really can serve you incredibly well.

Rachel Radway [00:42:06]:
So just, you know, embrace the gifts that you have and, and leverage them because they are truly things that not everyone has and, and things that not everyone can do.

David Hall [00:42:20]:
Yeah. Well said. Rachel. This has been a great conversation. Is there anything else you want to add today?

Rachel Radway [00:42:26]:
I would love to invite anyone who is struggling with any of the things that I talked about to reach out. I love having one to one conversations and would be happy to talk with you about what you're going through. If we're a good fit to, to work together, fantastic. And if we're not, I think we'll both know that. And I'd also be happy to find other resources or direct you to other people that I think might be a better fit so people can find me in all the various ways. I don't know what you put in the show notes, but I'm on LinkedIn Rachel Radway and my website is r e r coaching.com and I would love to hear from folks.

David Hall [00:43:10]:
Sounds great. Thanks again Rachel.

Rachel Radway [00:43:12]:
Thank you for having me.

David Hall [00:43:13]:
David, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free TYP finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.

David Hall [00:43:53]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.