The Quiet and Strong Podcast, Especially for Introverts
The Quiet and Strong Podcast, Especially for Introverts
Ep 248 - The Art of Bending Time and Beating Burnout with guest Michelle Niemeyer
Are you struggling to find enough hours in the day, or feeling burned out no matter how hard you try to keep up? In this episode of the Quiet and Strong Podcast, host David Hall sits down with special guest Michelle Niemeyer, an integrative nutrition health coach and former attorney, to explore the “art of bending time” and shifting your mindset for greater health, happiness, and productivity.
You’ll discover why maximizing focus—and moving beyond multitasking—is crucial for getting more done and finding fulfillment. Michelle Niemeyer shares how connecting your work and your true self can spark motivation, reveal your strengths, and shield you from burnout. Learn actionable strategies for increasing clarity, building habits, managing distractions, and understanding what truly lights you up.
If you want to boost your productivity without sacrificing what matters most—and cultivate a life that feels strong and meaningful—this episode is for you. Tune in to embrace your introverted strengths, master your time, and be strong.
Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/248
Michelle Niemeyer teaches people how to master The Art of Bending Time, making the magic happen in their lives. Michelle’s journey to burnout and back during a 30-year legal career led to a powerful discovery: when we connect the dots between who we are and how we spend our time, the impact of our time multiplies. The result is greater health, happiness, and productivity.
Connect with Michelle: LinkedIn | Facebook | Website
Text “clarity” to 33777 for free resources and to join her community.
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Minding Your Time: Time Management, Productivity, and Success, Especially for Introverts
Michelle Niemeyer [00:00:00]:
If you're a fixed mindset person and you've been raised thinking, oh, you're smart and therefore you're going to succeed, you have a setback and it's crippling. You don't know what to do. You don't know how to fix it. You dwell on it. You could dwell on it for months, you know, forget about hours or days. You could dwell on it for months. It could affect everything you do after that. Where if you're somebody who has learned to see a setback as a challenge and enjoy that challenge and work hard at it and go, hey, okay, so this didn't go right.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:00:31]:
Let's look at the big picture. How can we fix this? Or what can I do differently? Or what kind of path can I change so that it's better this way? What's the benefit that came out of this? Then you're going to be able to step away from that feeling of devastation and destruction and I'm never going to succeed and into that excitement of, oh my God, this is so cool. Look at this new path.
David Hall [00:01:05]:
Hello and welcome to episode 248 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host, David hall, the creator of Quiet and Strong Dot com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally. We'll air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or rating.
David Hall [00:01:31]:
That would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Michelle Niemeyer teaches people how to master the art of bending time, making the magic happen in their lives. Michelle's journey to burnout and back during a 30 year legal career led to a powerful discovery. When we connect the dots between who we are and how we spend our time, the impact of our time multiplies. The result is greater health, happiness and productivity. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Michelle.
David Hall [00:02:10]:
Michelle, it's so good to have you on today.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:02:12]:
Thank you, David. It's really nice to meet you here online in the ether world.
David Hall [00:02:17]:
Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to get into the work you do, especially with what you call bending time. But tell us a little bit about yourself and the journey to the work you're doing now.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:02:28]:
Well, that's. That's a long story. So the short story is that like Way too many people in today's world. I found myself in a career that burned me out. And after that, after I thought it was over, frankly, after I thought I was really back on track, I liked my job again. I was productive, I was doing great. I. I found out I had an autoimmune disease, which for a lot of people who have autoimmune diseases, you know, we're told by the medical world that that starts with a genetic potential and then is triggered by something.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:03:11]:
And it could be triggered by something environmental. It could be triggered. You know, sometimes they know, most of the time they don't. There's some potential that it could be related to stress or it could be related to your diet, or it could be related to your microbiome, a lot of different things. So I found myself in that place where all of a sudden I was looking at having this chronic condition that when I went online and looked it up, it said things like, 10 year lifespan. It's 10 years ago, by the way. 10 year lifespan, liver transplant. Like, scary, scary stuff.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:03:46]:
And I was like, what do I do? And so I enrolled. After I did a ton of research, I started being bombarded by ads, as you will. Yeah, for a nutritional health coaching school. And this school had a lot of people on their staff or, or as sort of adjunct professors who taught various things, who were the same doctors whose names I was seeing all over the place related to functional and integrative medicine tied to autoimmunity. So I took this course. It was 42 weeks. I spent about 10 hours a week learning how to be an integrative nutrition health coach. And with the pure idea that I was learning for my own purposes, but where that went was I realized that I now knew a lot.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:04:35]:
I had really learned how to change my life in ways that were monumental long term. Over time, I reversed damage from this autoimmune disease. I've kept my blood levels in the like, well, in the normal range where the goal of the medical, you know, if you look, read about this disease, the medical goal is to get you near or in the normal range, you know, And I attribute that to a lot of the things I learned in this course, as well as taking a drug that helps, thank God. But that led me to realizing, okay, I don't know for sure what triggered this. Nobody knows what triggers this. But if it is stress, if it is something related to the occupational and lifestyle and, you know, pressures that I was under and the. What ultimately turned into professional burnout for a while, who was I At the time when I thought I needed help for that. And I realized that I had this moment many years ago before, around when the.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:05:48]:
When the burnout was pretty bad, but it wasn't at its worst yet. I thought I needed help with time management. The first sort of personal development or education outside of true legal education course I paid for was a course on time management. And I did that because I was blind to the concept of burnout. I had no idea that was what was wrong. What I was seeing was I was scattered. I felt like I wasn't getting anything done. I felt I was distractible.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:06:21]:
I almost felt like I had adult adhd. They crossed my mind to go get tested for that, because it was like, you know, every time I started working on something, the notification would pop up and I'd look at my email, and then I'd get sucked into the vortex of whatever that was. And the next thing I knew, the project that was on my desk that morning was still there that afternoon. And so I went for this time management course that taught me some of the things that this. That my program teaches. And those things are important and they're helpful, but it was just the beginning. It was the tip of the iceberg. And so when I decided to do something to try to help other people who were like me, hopefully for those people, before they end up with an autoimmune disease or before they get so burned out that they want to walk away from their profession and they're trying to convince their friends, kids, never to do it, you know, that those people will learn the things they need to bulletproof themselves from burnout.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:07:26]:
That's my goal with this, is to really help bulletproof people from burnout and to give them skills so that they have the fuel that lights them up every day and they can manage their time well, because it all ties together.
David Hall [00:07:40]:
Awesome. We have a lot of great stuff to talk about, Michelle, but of course, on the Quietest Drunk podcast, I want to know a little bit more about, you know, your fellow introvert. So, yeah, when did you figure that out and did you have to embrace it?
Michelle Niemeyer [00:07:53]:
I think I always knew it, to be honest. I was, as a young child, I was the kid who was more comfortable with the adults in the room and kind of sitting back and observing and listening and once in a while, participating versus being part of a group group of my peers. I. I really struggled with socialization as a young kid, but not because I wasn't social. I had friends, but it was the. You know, I had close friends who Were the little group close friends and not. I wasn't comfortable in the big groups. That was always a thing for me.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:08:32]:
Then we moved twice, and the moving twice forced me to have to be more, I guess, socially out there because you can't just be the quiet and shy kid. I actually was labeled on the first move. I moved from Connecticut to Minnesota and I was labeled, quote, that bitch from Connecticut. Close quote.
David Hall [00:08:54]:
Oh, no.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:08:56]:
Because I was shy and I didn't talk much and people saw me as a. Because I wasn't talkative, I wasn't gregarious and friendly. And there's this like Minnesota friendly thing. You kind of have to get to know people from there before you know that Minnesota friendly thing. But it really exists. I think they actually have a marketing slogan called Minnesota Nice. It's real. And I wasn't that.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:09:23]:
And that was, you know, so I had to learn that skill, so to speak, to fit in there. So I masked. Well, I masked my introversion, but I definitely have always been that way. And I find now the part about what drains you and what fuels you. Reading that book Quiet was eye opening for me because I hadn't really seen it that way before I read that book. But it was really. It's very true for me. I can be extremely social, but it's like a chore for me.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:09:59]:
It's not like a know, oh, I love this. This is my element. My element is walking on the beach alone on Cape Cod.
David Hall [00:10:06]:
Yeah.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:10:07]:
And like.
David Hall [00:10:11]:
So, you know, that's why we do this show. Because there's so many misunderstandings about introversion. We're deep thinkers sometimes. Like, in my case, I did also feel shy because I didn't understand, hey, you know what? You're going to think before you speak. Most of the time, you know, you're, you're, you're not going to speak as much as your extroverted friends because you're, you're, you're deep in thought. What's the strength that you have because you're an introvert?
Michelle Niemeyer [00:10:38]:
Well, I would say that's, that's a big part of it. The other part of it is I've learned to embrace that need to take a step. One thing that I always, you know, when I was younger, I felt like, was a weakness. And in certain arenas it can be. I mean, it's, it's when I would, I would be bullied and I couldn't, I was not the master of the quick comeback. I couldn't do that. That wasn't like my brain didn't work that way. So it was like I'd be emotionally reactive and that's what they wanted, but I couldn't come back at them, which was what would have succeeded in fighting them off.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:11:17]:
So that was a problem for me for a long time when I was a little kid. As a litigation attorney, one would think that that skill is necessary. Right. And it kind of is. But thorough preparation is what you need to avoid the problems that come from that. And the people who don't thoroughly prepare, who rely on that quick comeback skill, are the ones who get their legs cut out from under them when those words that came out of their mouth can't be supported.
David Hall [00:11:48]:
Yeah, yeah. Preparation is a superpower of ours. We're really good at it, and sometimes we're not good at thinking on our feet, you know, not, not all the time. It just depends. But preparation is definitely something that we can really excel at.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:12:02]:
So that, that preparation thing for me was a big deal. I mean, I was an exceedingly good lawyer, and part of it was that I did take real care in being prepared and knowing what I needed to know. And, you know, know when I stood before a, a panel of three appellate judges, I had all the knowledge that I needed, and I had taken that time to focus and, and, you know, I do think that's, it's an incredible strength.
David Hall [00:12:26]:
Yeah. I mean, for me, I learned that too, that if I prepare, I will be fine. So, you know, I'm doing this podcast. Years ago, I would have been so nervous to do this kind of thing, but I'm not, I'm confident I, I, I did the work, I prepared. You know, same with public speaking. I enjoy it. It doesn't make me nervous because I learned that I need to prepare in my way. That works for me.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:12:52]:
Yeah. And public speaking, one of the things that I've realized with it that helps, and I think this is how, as an introvert, you can handle public speaking well, is that you see the audience as an entity of one, not as 1,000 people, 5,000 people. Right? Yes. You connect to individuals, and that makes you more effective when you can look and connect to an individual and then look at another one. But if you don't see it as, oh, my God, there's 20,000 people all looking at me at the same time or whatever it is. Right. That's different. You and I are talking to each other right now in a conversation that doesn't feel like how many thousands of people who are going to listen to this down the road.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:13:43]:
It's not like Those people are all listening and participating right now. It's not all that noise and, and that makes a difference. And that's all how you process it. It's what's in your head and what you perceive.
David Hall [00:13:55]:
Yeah, that's a good point. Because we excel at one on one, you know, and we bust myths on this show. And a myth is that we don't like people. We absolutely do. We just need some time alone. We need some people balance between alone time and collaboration and just spending time with family and friends. But we absolutely like people. But we just need to find whatever that balance is.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:14:17]:
Yeah, for sure.
David Hall [00:14:19]:
So tell us, what is bending time?
Michelle Niemeyer [00:14:23]:
Okay, so here's. This is the meat of it. This is really good stuff. Bending time comes from the concept that although we all have the same number of minutes in an hour, hours in a day, days in a week, some of us can get a lot more done than others. Some of us are much happier and more fulfilled in our lives than others. Here's how I've started looking at time. And this is where bending time comes in. Let's imagine that, that ruler, that linear measurement that we traditionally call time, look at that like it's a line on a piece of paper, right? But then let's lay on that linear thing a three dimensional container that's made of something elastic, like a balloon.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:15:16]:
Imagine it's like a big clear balloon. And in that line now you have the ability to fill that in a way. It could be different colors, it could be different shapes, it could be. It could have scent, it could have. It could move, it could stretch, it could reach out toward other things and it can get bigger depending on how you fill it and what you fill it with. Does that make sense?
David Hall [00:15:47]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:15:48]:
Okay, so that's spending time, sort of. So here's how we do it. We do it first of all by maximizing our capacity to be focused on what we're doing while we're doing it. If I'm for instance, I'm writing a book right now. If I'm working on writing my book and I'm sitting and I'm really focused just on writing the book. I've turned off the notifications on my computer, my phone is on silent. I am just pouring words onto a page as I'm thinking about it. I'm working from an outline.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:16:22]:
Maybe once in a while I'm popping back and forth to research some things. But basically I'm focused on the writing. I'm going to get a hell of a lot more done than If I'm writing the book while my email's popping up in my face, while my phone is ringing, while my dog is barking at me, while I feel physically uncomfortable because I'm out of shape and my back hurts and my neck hurts and I've got a headache because I didn't eat breakfast this morning. Right. Think about the difference in the productivity you'd get in that second scenario versus I'm physically in shape, I'm mentally focused, and I'm on task.
David Hall [00:17:07]:
Yeah. And it is crazy. Like, people try to say, oh, I'm so good at multitasking. And it's like, no, you're really not. What you're saying, Michelle, is like, yeah, you need to focus. Focus. Especially, I think, introverts, we need to focus to get things done. And we need to put that into our time.
David Hall [00:17:27]:
Is like, I need some focus time to get this project done.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:17:31]:
Absolutely.
David Hall [00:17:31]:
To write a book is no easy task. To write a book, you need to have that focus time.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:17:36]:
And even. Let's even sit. Let's take it out of the room of like, something like writing a book, which is a really great introvert project. Right. We love that stuff. But let's say it's. You're in sales and you work in a store, in a mall, and your job is to get people to buy things in your store. And instead, you're standing there and you see customers and you're gonna talk to those customers, but then your phone buzzes and you answer a text and that customer walks away.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:18:11]:
Right. Like, even things like that. Or you're speaking, you're giving a presentation. You've got a team at work, and you're giving a presentation to your team, and you take a phone call during that presentation. What does that do to your connection with the people that you're presenting to? How does that affect. Are you able to look at their faces and see their body language and read the room? If you're also. You're. Half your brain is on your phone.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:18:42]:
So, you know, this is a lot of. This is really about, to some degree, mindfulness, but not in the sense of meditation, although meditation can help you get that focus. It's in a sense of being here now with the project, with the activity that you're engaging in and with the people that you're with and making sure that you're. You're really 100%. You know, they say that. What is it? I've read different numbers. It's a very high percentage of communication. I've read as much as 90% of our communication with someone is actually non verbal.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:19:21]:
So think about that. If you're not paying attention to that person, if you're looking at your phone, if your mind is elsewhere because you're multitasking and you're just listening to them, you're literally, you're only getting 10% of what that person is conveying to you.
David Hall [00:19:37]:
Yeah, I love that. And mindfulness is a key because you should be present with whatever you're doing. And you know, I like that you made the distinction because a lot of times people think, oh, it's meditation. No, meditation can be very helpful. But the mindfulness is really being present with what you're doing.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:19:54]:
You know, like meditation is like exercising a muscle in the gym.
David Hall [00:19:58]:
Yeah, yeah. So where do people start with this? Like somebody's needs to learn how to spend time. You know, they may be feeling burned out. Where do they start?
Michelle Niemeyer [00:20:09]:
Yeah, well, well, I have a program, I teach on this. And where I start them is with clarity, which sounds counterintuitive. What's that have to do with getting more done? Right. But I start them with clarity and not clarity on what they're doing, clarity on who they are and what lights them up. So we do a guided meditation about. It basically helps bring up memories. A lot of, for a lot of people, it's childhood memories. It isn't always of things that really made you feel, for instance, proud or excited or you have a really high level of anticipation about something, or you feel like you're just like, just overwhelmed with connection with the people around you and feeling loved and feeling, you know, just incredible.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:20:58]:
What gave you that feeling? And you really get into it. What, who was with you at the time? Was it about the people or was it about the accomplishment? For instance, was it about, you know, the recognition that you got? Was it about just being connected in a way that physically felt good to you or you really, like appreciate physical beauty and you, you saw an incredible view or something amazing that was visual or was it auditory? Was it music? Was it the sound of the words, you know, for different people? Everybody has their different things that just really light them up. And so one of, part of what we try to do with the art of bending time is bulletproof people from getting burned out. How do you bulletproof yourself from getting burned out? You get the things that light you up in all of your life as often as you can. It's not going to happen all the time. It's not going to be 100% of what you do in your job. But if you can find a way to make your job and this is something that's in your power, whether you work on a factory line or you are the president of a company, or you own your own business, it's something that you, it has to do with your own perceptions, your own inputs, your own. You know, to some degree it's about what the tasks are, but to some degree it's what you bring to the tasks and how you see them.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:22:30]:
And then you can make those sparks happen. When you make the sparks happen, they fuel you. So that's the first step. Second step is getting healthy. Like I, like I mentioned, if you're in top physical and mental health, you're going to be focused, you're going to be on your game and you're going to get more done. Third step is learning about those individual things that you have. I call them internal time sucks. Which are often self soothing mechanisms.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:22:59]:
Things you do to avoid doing something that's hard or doing something that you don't really feel like or you're uncomfortable about or you're afraid of. A lot of times it comes from fear. Why aren't you making that phone call? It's not hard to pick up the phone. But are you afraid of what's going to happen when you make that phone call? That is what I call an internal time suck. We work on ways to deal with that. Then you get into practices that help you solidify what you just figured out. One of them is dealing with what I call external time sucks. This is just another way to prevent distraction.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:23:38]:
Basically that could be things in your environment. It could be clutter, it could be noise, it could be. I had an office once that everybody walked past it to go to the kitchen and they all tried to say hi to me and, and it stopped me from getting work done. I ended up moving my computer to the credenza behind my desk so that my, my back was to them and they could see I was working. It wasn't more obvious and it couldn't have been and it worked. Nobody thought I was being antisocial. Nobody thought I was hiding in my office behind closed doors. But they stopped bothering me if I was working on my computer.
David Hall [00:24:14]:
Yeah. Having, having. Being by a high traffic area like that for an introvert can be definitely overwhelming. Yeah.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:24:22]:
Or for an extrovert because then they're like hey, you know, yeah.
David Hall [00:24:25]:
Right.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:24:26]:
So either way it can distract you and it can take you from test task. So. And then the other things that you want to look at are, are mindset Issues. Some people, and I was one of these for years, they see a setback as devastating, right? If you're a fixed mindset person and you've been raised thinking, oh, you're smart and therefore you're going to succeed, you have a setback and, and it's crippling. You don't know what to do, you don't know how to fix it. You dwell on it. You could dwell on it for months, forget about hours or days, you could dwell on it for months. It could affect everything you do after that.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:25:04]:
Where if you're somebody who has learned to see a setback as a challenge and enjoy that challenge and work hard at it, and go, hey, okay, so this didn't go right. Let's look at the big picture. How can we fix this? Or what can I do differently? Or what kind of path can I change so that it's better this way? What's the benefit that came out of this? Then you're going to be able to step away from that feeling of devastation and destruction and I'm never going to succeed and into that excitement of, oh my God, this is so cool. Look at this new path, right? And the other thing is habits. Creating good habits that are strong, habits that reinforce the things that you need to be able to protect yourself, time and, you know, ninja level stuff. And this is really, after you've done all that other, all those other things I just mentioned is I get people analyzing their goals. We have three, what I call big hairy goals, the three giant goals, personal business, think three to five to ten year goals. And we look at where we are on those now.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:26:13]:
What do we have? And then what do we need? Maybe you have to go back to school, maybe you need to buy something, maybe you need to raise capital, whatever that is. And then we look at the opportunities that will come from reaching that goal and the risks of pursuing it. Will it take time away from some other thing that matters to you? Are you risking your reputation, whatever that might be? And we look at all of it together and then I ask people 1 to 10, how much do you want it? And the reason I do that is, you know, sometimes going through that, they realize it's not really aligned with who they are anymore. And they've been spending a lot of their time and money and effort and taking weekends away from their family and whatever that might be on a goal that isn't theirs anymore. And if they focus on the goals that matter, guess what? They just freed up a huge amount of time and potentially a huge amount of money. And they may be, you know, negative impact on their relationships by changing, you know, by shifting to goals that are aligned with who they are.
David Hall [00:27:19]:
Yeah. And that's so key. And it comes back to what you started with. You know, we gotta get clarity. What lights us up. And it's really. I learned this that, you know, you have to prioritize because you can't do everything. I've tried.
David Hall [00:27:34]:
I'm sure you've tried too.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:27:35]:
Nobody can't. Nobody can.
David Hall [00:27:36]:
You have to figure out what's the most important things to me and how am I going to get there. And that's really how you get the things done that are important to you. And we're always going to have some things that we don't like to do that we just have to. But if we could move in that direction of spending more of our time in those things that light us up. I love that phrase, what lights you up? So that's a really good thing to consider regularly.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:28:04]:
Well, thank you. And the other piece of it that, know, you kind of alluded to, but. And I didn't mention yet, is the concept of a team. We don't do everything. We can't do everything, and we certainly can't do everything all by ourselves. We have team in all kinds of areas of our life. We have probably family, we have friends, we have neighbors, we have co workers, we have. And then we have the next level of who.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:28:38]:
Who do you know? Like, who does the person that I know know? And so one of the things that I'm really big on, I. I'm not a fan of work life balance. I feel like when we put our work into one box and our quote unquote, life into another box. Right. How is work not part of your life? It's. Of course it's part of your life. Your career is something you spend at least a third of your time on. And yet we treat it like it's bad.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:29:10]:
It should be separate. It should be boxed away from the rest of your life, which is supposed to be just the good part. And that doesn't make sense. We should have joy and happiness and good stuff throughout our day. So when we make those boxes, we don't just categorize work in a way that makes work seem like it sucks. Excuse my French. But we also are limiting ourselves. We have some places in this world, grants, where there's a law that your employer can't text you after working hours or call you.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:29:46]:
Okay, well, that makes sense if they are asking you to actually respond to that. Right. I get that. I don't think it's right for someone to reach out at midnight and say, excuse me, excuse me. Unless they're a firefighter or a paramedic or something. They shouldn't be reaching out to you at midnight and saying, I need to do this now. Right. However, should it be wrong that they had a thought cross their mind? They just need to get that out of their head.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:30:15]:
They send something to someone who has no expectation of responding until work hours. In my opinion, that shouldn't be against the law. That should be, okay, you sent it. But there shouldn't be any expectation that the person on the other end of that communication has to even see it or respond to it.
David Hall [00:30:33]:
Yeah, immediately. Yeah.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:30:35]:
So, you know. But the concept has been turned into something where it makes some people, especially management level people, uncomfortable about asking people at work about their personal lives. Asking them about what they love and what they care about, the hobbies. They're into having a real friendship and relationship. Because when we share our whole selves, we develop relationships with people, and when we draw that line and create that barrier, we make it harder to have that true relationship. We don't get to know them on a human level. Well, what does that mean? Maybe you don't find out that Sam in the marketing department is a brilliant artist and would love to use his art in some of the things that he's creating. But because of the way you do things in your department, he doesn't get to.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:31:31]:
Right. If you knew that because you actually felt comfortable asking Sam about his hobbies and his life and you found out he's got a whole other thing going on where he does art, you could support that, that thing that lights him up and gives him joy and you could bring it into his workplace.
David Hall [00:31:48]:
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I love what you're saying because we're. We are a person, you know, we're not. We're a whole person, and we're always who we are. The other thing about work life balance, I think is, is. Is not, doesn't work, is sometimes you need to put a lot of effort in a different place. Sometimes you may be spending more time in your personal life or you may have some busy periods at work and you just have to figure all that out. And again, it goes back to what's my priorities and how am I spending my time, but it's not going to be a perfect balance.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:32:25]:
Right. And. And the other piece that I was going to get to about building team is, let's say And I'm going to use this as an example. Let's use Sam, the marketing guy, who's a really good artist, as an example. And I'm the manager in that team. And I don't talk to Sam about his personal goals and what he's into because I feel like it's an intrusion. Because I'm not supposed to ask people about their personal lives. And Sam doesn't talk to me about those things because he thinks that if he talks about the fact that he loves art at work, it might get him fired.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:33:02]:
Right. Because they maybe I'm going to think that he has a plan to leave the company and to do some different kind of business or whatever that is. Well, what if I really, you know, let's say I know somebody who is interested in developing something and they need artwork. Sam's got a side business doing art that's not affected his business at all. He's. He's a great marketing guy and he's doing awesome at it. And he, you know, is going to stay doing that as long as he's going to stay doing it. We never know that our employees are permanent fixtures, but the person that I know has the potential to, you know, collaborate and I could connect those two people and that could develop a stronger relationship on both sides.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:33:53]:
There's risk in that. Sure. But there's also the possibility that because I didn't stand in Sam's way, because I have allowed for someone to fulfill their own, so to speak. I'm not going to call it destiny, but you know, to fulfill what lights them up. That person is now a raving fan of me as a manager. They've got this job, they like it where they are because they don't feel like they're being stifled. Maybe that means that Sam tells his friend when we need to hire someone, oh my God. Where I work is so awesome.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:34:26]:
Now we have a recruitment advantage in our team because of the fact that I allow people to be full human beings at work.
David Hall [00:34:34]:
Yeah. And we all have our own gifts and strengths. And the more we can help others, you know, those that work for you or with you, help them embrace their strengths. And you said something key earlier. We don't have all the gifts, so we do need to partner with people. You know, there might be something that, you know, speaking of marketing, that's not my skill set. You know, making nice looking things. I need someone to help me with that.
David Hall [00:35:01]:
You know, I'm good at thinking of ideas, but you know, as far as like the artwork, that's not my gift.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:35:08]:
Right. And that's another piece of it, is knowing when things are not your gift, knowing when you're not, you know, you're not in your zone, so to speak, and taking and trusting. And this is a big deal. I see this a lot with groups, with micromanagers, where they have a team and they do delegate, but then they hover over people and they don't really. They tell them how to do it, and they don't really allow themselves to fully express their skill. And when they do that, they're stifling the potential of the person who works for them, and they're wasting their own time that should have been spent somewhere else. You know, it's the first thing I think of when someone says to me, well, I could hire somebody to do that, but every time I've done it, it's just such a waste of time because I always have to fix everything. Right.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:36:02]:
There's one of two problems there. It's either a lack of training or a lack of communication about what you need and a complete failure in trusting that somebody is capable. And. And to believe that you're more capable than anybody else at everything is ludicrous.
David Hall [00:36:21]:
Yeah. Also to believe that your way of approaching something is the only way is ludicrous.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:36:26]:
Right.
David Hall [00:36:27]:
You know, it's like, and I, for me, it's like it's got to be about outcomes, what needs to get happened here. But how you as an individual accomplish that needs to be okay for the most part.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:36:38]:
Yeah. This was, I'll give you an example of the, the like, you know, thinking you can do it better. When I was, you know, what we lovingly refer to as a baby lawyer in the legal profession.
David Hall [00:36:51]:
Okay.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:36:52]:
So somebody who just got out of law school just started, you know, it was early 90s secretaries, all had computers in law firms. But a lot of law firms especially, well, a lot of law firms, the attorneys didn't have a computer. Now, I went to law school in a time when we all came to school with a computer. We all typed all of our own stuff the whole time we were in law school. We were quite proficient at that. And then all of a sudden, we were being told by managers who were our older peers, you have to dictate. Dictation will teach you to think like a lawyer. Now, to some degree, there is some basis in the fact that when you dictate, if you do it well, you've put all your stuff together, you've got a really organized outline, you, you know, you're basically Reading what you've already written, it's a complete freaking waste of time if you're a capable typist.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:37:56]:
What I found was if I was dictating my process, dictating was I had to have it completely organized, I had to dictate it, then it had come back with all kinds of typos or changes, plus the regular editing that I would do. And it'd go back and forth and back and forth for a while in a process that took, I'm not joking, probably three times as long as if I had been typing as I composed. Right? So in some times, yeah, like dictate, like the delegation isn't necessarily more effective. However, there are times when it can be really effective and that's usually when it's not something you can do. That old dude who's telling me not to type if he's not capable of typing and he's hunting and pecking with one finger like a lot of them did. And you know, yeah, that guy, he needs a secretary and a dictation machine, right? Like that mattered. But we hit a point where our skill set shifted because of technology, because our lives were different then. We get into the people, you know, my age now, I mean, let's face it, like I'm 60 this year.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:39:10]:
I'm sure that my nieces and nephew who grew up with tablets in their hands could do anything on the computer, anything that's like user oriented, stuff related to a phone or a tablet or a computer 100 times faster than I can because they've been trained in it way more than I was. I'm pretty good at it, but I'm not them. I didn't grow up with it as part of the air I was breathing, so to speak. So for me not to delegate that, not to say to somebody who's more proficient, hey, I'm trying to figure out how to make this work faster, better, easier. Can you figure out how to do that? Like create an AI for it? Why wouldn't I ask for that?
David Hall [00:39:53]:
Right, right, exactly. So you've given us a lot of great strategies. I'm just curious, how do you define productivity? What does that mean to you?
Michelle Niemeyer [00:40:03]:
Well, productivity is different than having quality time. I'm going to say that right now. How do I define productivity? I define productivity is getting as much quality work complete as possible in whatever period of time. I mean, it's not everything's measured like widgets. But right now I'm writing a book. So literally writing my book means I finished a chapter in the Time that I planned. In fact, half the time that I planned for writing the chapter. How did I do that? I gave myself truly concentrated focus, time, and that's productivity.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:40:46]:
I halved that time. I saved. I planned on eight hours. I wrote it in four hours. I mean, there's a word count there. There's. But in the end, it's the quality of what got done. And, you know, if I had been sitting on my couch with the notifications on my phone and the TV on and distractions, it would have taken me longer.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:41:07]:
Like, way longer.
David Hall [00:41:09]:
Yeah, Right.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:41:10]:
But the other piece of it is having time to do other kinds of things that you love, having a life that you enjoy, and having those little sparks all day. I call it microdosing of your little sparks. Right. You get all your little sparks, and you do that proactively so that you have your fuel is consistent throughout the day to do whatever it is you want to do.
David Hall [00:41:32]:
Yeah. What is that? What is micro dosing? Or I think you also call it a micro moment.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:41:37]:
Yeah. It's those little things, and like I said, for everybody, they're different. So it might be music, it might be visual beauty, it might be physically moving your body, it might be the scent of the coffee in your cup every morning, and you kind of have that moment of, like, enjoying that, having the cup of coffee in your hand and just that. That time, I mean, it's just a thing, right? And there's a spark there. It might be meeting the eye of your child, and they smile and giggle, and it lights you up in your heart, Right? All of those things. All those different kinds of things. Dealing with a puzzle that's a challenge at work and finally getting it, and now you've got it working. You set up the thing that's been kind of buggy and it wasn't working for a while, and now you're like, oh, my God, this is so cool.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:42:30]:
It works.
David Hall [00:42:31]:
Yeah. That's amazing. So this has been a great conversation. You know, there's. You've shared a lot of great tips and strategies. Is there anything else you want to add today?
Michelle Niemeyer [00:42:41]:
I don't think so. I. I just, you know, it's so important to find those little moments, find the things that make you light up and make you happy, and then proactively make a point of fitting them in, in a way, in your work. Like, if those challenges that if, if, if Take. Satisfy, like, solving puzzles makes you happy, try to get more puzzle solving into your day. If playing with your kid lights you up in a. You know, give yourself that concentrated time. Not that do your homework, make sure you put your shoes by the door, whatever that, that, you know, the stuff that's more a chore, but the stuff that you love.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:43:21]:
Get the stuff that you love and make a point of it and you'll find that everything else comes after that.
David Hall [00:43:28]:
Yeah, that's key. So, Michelle, where can people find out more about the great work you're doing?
Michelle Niemeyer [00:43:33]:
Okay, well, they can get that clarity exercise I told you I have. I do like a guided meditation that's a downloadable tool in a free community I offer. So they can text the word clarity to 33777 or they can go to a link that you're going to put in your show notes for that. And you know, don't do the texting if you're in your car right now.
David Hall [00:43:58]:
That's not a great idea.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:44:00]:
So, you know, but you can get those downloads and you can also get a downloadable form to do the sword analysis that I referred to where you analyze your goals to see, you know, do you really want them. And I really would love for you to be part of that community. And it's free. And then you can contact me through that or through my website.
David Hall [00:44:22]:
Awesome. And we'll watch for your book.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:44:25]:
Thank you.
David Hall [00:44:26]:
All right, thanks again, Michelle.
Michelle Niemeyer [00:44:27]:
Bye.
David Hall [00:44:28]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.
David Hall [00:45:08]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.