Ep 249 - Landing Your Dream Job as an Introvert with guest Kacie Bail

Are you an introvert wondering how to land your dream job without having to become someone you’re not? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, host David Hall is joined by career coach Kacie Bail, who specializes in helping introverts and non-native English speakers find fulfilling positions—especially in the tech industry. 

Whether you struggle with interviews, finding the right work environment, or figuring out how to showcase your true strengths, this conversation will guide you through practical strategies like storytelling, networking, and self-reflection so you can stand out and succeed. Discover why understanding your introversion is key to building confidence, how to prevent job search burnout, and ways to market yourself effectively for jobs that match your skills and desired lifestyle. 

Tune in for advice on embracing your unique strengths, preparing for interviews, and finding meaningful work that pays the bills—and be strong.

Episode Link: QuietandStrong.com/249

Kacie Bail is a Career Coach who helps introverts and non-native English speakers land more fulfilling jobs, primarily in the Tech Industry. Before becoming a coach, she spent years in IT consulting in the United States and Chile where she personally navigated the challenges of job searching as both an introvert and a non-native Spanish speaker. Today, she draws on those experiences to help her clients stand out and get hired through great storytelling, connection and company cultural fit.

Connect with Kacie:

Website | LinkedIn | Substack | Meetup | Instagram

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

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david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Transcript

Kacie Bail [00:00:00]:
From my experience, I think that, you know, it does start with self reflection and, you know, asking yourself some questions about, you know, what do you value? What are your, you know, your strengths and weaknesses, thinking back on things that you like doing or maybe things you didn't like doing. You know, different types of work environments where you, you feel like you thrive in. And you know, I think, I think another question that I would also ask myself or the client would be, you know, reflecting on your financial situation too. I know that doesn't relate quite to the type of work, but I do think that, you know, determining what salary that you would need to be able to support the lifestyle that you'd like is important because, you know, maybe your, your dream job is something that, you know, doesn't even cover your basic living expenses at this moment. And so there might need to be some middle ground there or you might just need to develop a plan, you know, where you can get more financially stable first before you start pursuing that dream job.

David Hall [00:01:12]:
Hello and welcome to episode 249 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I'm your host David hall and the creator of Quiet and Strong dot com. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we all are. Each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and help others find the show, tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Casey Bale is a career coach who helps introverts and non native English speakers land more fulfilling jobs, primarily in the tech industry.

David Hall [00:01:57]:
Before becoming a coach, she spent years in IT consulting in the United States and Chile where she personally navigated the challenge of job searching as both an introvert and non native Spanish speaker. Today she draws on those experiences to help her clients stand out and get hired through great storytelling, connection and company cultural fit. All right, well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast. Casey. Casey, it's so good to have you on today.

Kacie Bail [00:02:28]:
Yeah, thank you, David. Happy to be here.

David Hall [00:02:31]:
So we're going to get into the work you do, you know, with as a coach for introverts and non native English speakers and especially around the interview process and getting those jobs. So tell us a little bit about yourself and the journey to the work that you're doing.

Kacie Bail [00:02:49]:
Sure, sure. So I grew up as a shy, introverted kid and I Just remember a question that I got over and over again, which was, you know, why are you so quiet? And because I got that question so many times, you know, I started to wonder, was there something wrong with me? You know, why is everyone asking me this? And so that stuck with me and that there was this feeling that I had to somehow change to be more outgoing. And, you know, this feeling continued, I would say, until I got to college. And there I studied bioengineering. And I would say, by my junior year, you know, I still had this idea in my mind that I wanted to overcome my shyness and find some way to get better at communicating with others. So it was that time that I decided that I wanted to pursue a career in IT consulting after I graduated, just because I thought that would be a way that would force me to be able to improve my communication skills. So I ended up spending almost five years at Accenture, and then three years at a company called Appian. And there I was able to work across various roles within the software development lifecycle, lead several software application projects.

Kacie Bail [00:04:08]:
And I think it was my IT consulting experience that ultimately gave me the courage and also the communication skills that I needed to take this huge leap when I turned 30. So when I turned 30, I actually decided to move to Chile in order to pursue one of my dreams of learning Spanish. And, and so in about six months, I packed up my life in two suitcases and a backpack and I moved to Chile. I didn't have any friends there or family. And, you know, when I got there, I taught English to business professionals while I learned Spanish. And about two years after that, I decided to conquer my next challenge, which was to find a job in IT consulting so that I could know, try and use more of the Spanish that I had been learning. And, you know, I have to say that was a pretty, a pretty eye opening experience just because, you know, the first couple interviews, they were a little rough. And there was this one interview I even remember where I didn't even realize that the interview would be in Spanish because all the email communications had been in English.

Kacie Bail [00:05:17]:
And so, needless to say that that interview did not last very long. But, you know, it was a little bit of a rude awakening. But I knew, you know, deep down that I did have the skills to do the job. I just, you know, I just didn't know how to communicate it clearly in Spanish. And so, you know, I knew I had to prepare a little bit more, you know, work on my business Spanish. So I got help. I worked with a Spanish Teacher. And then within three months, I was able to get three job offers.

Kacie Bail [00:05:46]:
And you know, that experience really taught me that, you know, sometimes being qualified isn't always enough. You know, you need to be able to communicate and share your experience in a clear way. And so after, you know, leading another software development project, I still felt like something was missing. So I took some time to reflect on the type of work that I found fulfilling. And I realized that, you know, what I love most about all my previous jobs was that I was able to help people grow and help them develop new skills. Even though my brain was telling me, don't leave this stable job, I decided to step away yet again from consulting and I enrolled in a nine month coaching program. While I did that, while I was training to be a coach, I did some resume writing and interview prep sessions on an online language platform. I think it was there where I really decided that I wanted to pursue a career in career coaching just because I got to help clients land their dream job.

Kacie Bail [00:06:49]:
And it was really, really rewarding. So when I returned to the US I wanted to continue helping people. And so that's why I decided to start my own career coaching business. And that's how I got here today.

David Hall [00:07:04]:
Wow. And I love how you said it's not just the qualifications because I've struggled with that, you know, where I was qualified, but when I was younger, interviews were a challenge. You know, I wasn't the best interviewer and. But there's things that you can do and that's what we're going to talk about today. And the other thing, what you said right at the beginning, I hate that question. Why are you so quiet? I got that too. And you know, you're like, where do you go from there? And it does. It can actually be the cause of you feeling like something's wrong with you.

Kacie Bail [00:07:41]:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I never really knew how to respond to that.

David Hall [00:07:45]:
No, it's like, oh, no, I'm not, you know, but you know, one thing, one thing. And I was shy. I did lack confidence. But learning that I'm an introvert and I think before I speak and I spend a lot more time in my head and it's a good thing. There's strengths that come from it that helped me overcome my shyness and gain confidence. But I realized I am never going to speak as much as my extroverted friend because they're thinking out loud a lot of the time and I'm thinking and then sharing what's most important and that's not going to Change for me, and it doesn't need to. It's a good thing. But I just understanding that was really key.

Kacie Bail [00:08:29]:
Yeah. And, you know, I think also understanding more that, you know, it's good to have a balance, right, between. Between introverts and extroverts. I think if you have everyone trying to dominate the conversation, you know, that's also not going to work very well either. So I think it's good to have some people that tend to, you know, want to share maybe a little bit more, maybe speak more words per minute, and some other people that tend to want to listen more.

David Hall [00:08:53]:
Yeah. So when did you, when did you come to know the term introvert?

Kacie Bail [00:09:00]:
So I think I remember hearing. I don't remember the exact moment, but because I did get asked that question a lot, even when I was like a young kid probably it was in, like fourth or fifth grade where I probably heard the term from my parents just because I. I probably did ask them, you know, why am I so quiet? So they probably told me, oh, you're probably just shy or more introverted. But I don't think I really understood what that meant until maybe even like high school or college when I took like one of those free personality tests and kind of got a little bit more of an understanding that introversion and shyness are not the same thing.

David Hall [00:09:42]:
So, yeah, it's funny because people try to say that and I'm like, I know shy extroverts, you know, so. And also, like I said, I. I think you're always going to be an introvert. You don't overcome that, but you can overcome shyness and you can gain confidence.

Kacie Bail [00:09:58]:
Yeah, absolutely.

David Hall [00:10:00]:
So what, what did it take for you to embrace it?

Kacie Bail [00:10:04]:
You know, I think, I think that was a long journey, and I think that it's kind of reflected in, you know, how many times I tried to stay in IT consulting. And again, I don't think it was the only reason, but I do think, thinking that maybe there was something wrong with me that I was so quiet, maybe that was why I tried so hard to be more outgoing and, you know, decided to be in consulting and really put myself in these situations where I'd have to speak up more, I think it took me a while to embrace it, and I think maybe I didn't fully embrace it until, you know, I decided to make this career change to be a career coach because although I really enjoyed being an IT consultant and it taught me so many wonderful skills and I met so many great people, I think at the end of the Day I didn't. I just continued to feel a little burnt out. And so I think it was that combination. And also, yeah, finding a career path where I could feel more fulfilled, I think that's where I was able to fully embrace my introversion.

David Hall [00:11:15]:
All right, and what's the strength that you have because you're an introvert?

Kacie Bail [00:11:20]:
Yeah, so I think probably my greatest strength would be my listening skills. I think that by asking questions and really actively listening to people, I feel like I'm able to build stronger connections with them because I get to hear their stories and get to empathize with them and get to understand them at a deeper level about why they are the way they are. So I think that those skills have probably served me very well as a coach and also as an IT leader.

David Hall [00:11:53]:
Awesome. And then we talk about strengths, but we also bust myths. Is there a myth about introversion that you want to bust? We already talked about that. Introverts and shyness isn't the same thing. Is there another myth that you want to bust?

Kacie Bail [00:12:08]:
Yeah. So I think another myth that I would want to bust is that introverts aren't as effective at being leaders. So I do think that introverts have a lot of great gifts that can make them very effective leaders. And, you know, from my experience, you know, because we do tend to be good, good listeners, I think that we're able to figure out, you know, what really motivates each person on our teams and really get to know what their strengths and weaknesses are at a deeper level. And then once we know more about our team members, I think we're able to put them in environments, you know, where they're going to grow and thrive. And, you know, that actually. That actually even reminds me when I was actually interviewing for jobs, got to the point where I even pointed out during the interview that my leadership style was different. I even told them that I may never be the loudest person in the room, but I always deliver on my commitments.

Kacie Bail [00:13:10]:
I'm always prepared, and I will give, you know, 100% to my team and to my clients to make sure that we reach our goals. And I think that, you know, when you're able to back that up with your experiences and your accomplishments, you know, you're proving to the interviewer that there absolutely is more than one way to be an effective leader.

David Hall [00:13:31]:
Yeah, introverts can be amazing leaders, but, you know, the approaches might look different. The strategies for success as a leader might look different from an extrovert. And that's. So that's. Yeah, that's a good one to bust. So tell us about the coaching work that you do.

Kacie Bail [00:13:48]:
Yeah, happy to. So I think that for many introverts and non native English speakers, the biggest barrier to landing a job isn't usually that they're not qualified enough. I think it's about, you know, being able to communicate their skills with confidence and in a clear and concise way to during the interview, but also on the resume as well. So for that reason, I coach my clients through the job search process, from resume writing to interview preparation, where I focus on storytelling, connection and company culture fit. And you know, the reason why I want to focus on those three areas is because, you know, from my experience, when candidates all have, you know, similar skills and qualifications, I think it's your stories, know the way that you connect to the interviewer, to the role, and how well you fit within the company culture that can really make you stand out more. So I, I tend to have one on one sessions with my clients, you know, where they can have a safe space to talk about the types of roles that they want. You know, they can share their experiences and I can guide them on how to tailor those experiences to their target roles and to the company culture. So in general, we also work on making sure that they tell concise, compelling stories that highlight their value both on their resume and within their interview answers.

Kacie Bail [00:15:12]:
And I also do mock interviews so that the clients can practice under pressure and get feedback. And I also provide guidance on how to engage with the interviewer so that the candidate can build more connection throughout the interview.

David Hall [00:15:29]:
Yeah, let's talk about storytelling a little bit because as humans we're built on stories, we really relate to stories. Sometimes though, as introverts, we don't always, and I always say it like that because sometimes we think of things on the spot, but we're not always good at thinking of things on the spot. And so, you know, I know that preparation is a big part of your coaching that you were just talking about. How do we gather our stories and have some good stories in our mind for the questions that are going to come our way.

Kacie Bail [00:16:02]:
Yeah. So in my coaching I usually try and have at least five to six core stories that the candidate can refer back to. And so these stories should align to the target role that they're trying to go for. And usually with those five or six stories, I always try to have a story where they, the candidate can talk about their greatest accomplishment, a time that they failed or faced a really great challenge, a time that they had a Disagreement with a coworker or a boss. And then the other two stories are something that is highlighted in the job description as one of the main requirements. So I would recommend having five or six really solid stories that you can refer to that cover a diverse set of situations. So, so that way in most cases, you know, whatever behavioral question they throw at you, you'll at least have those five or six stories to refer back to where you can tailor them as needed to fit whatever question they ask you.

David Hall [00:17:03]:
Yeah. So what other interview advice do you have for especially for introverts or non native English speakers?

Kacie Bail [00:17:14]:
Sure, sure. So I think one of my top tips for non native English speakers is to really practice saying your interview answers out loud. So for them, sometimes they may read it in their head and they think that they're able to say it just fine, but when they say it out loud, they might trip over a certain word, maybe because they're not used to pronouncing it, or maybe there's a certain phrase that's difficult for them to remember. So I always recommend that they say the answers out loud first so that they can catch those words or phrases that are difficult to say and kind of either practice them more or you can also replace them with words that are easier to say or easier to remember. I think another tip that I would advise is that, you know, keep your answers a little bit shorter. And I would say this could go for both introverts and non native English speakers just because from my experience with the clients that I've worked with, they do tend to get very nervous. And so I think when they're able to keep their answers a little bit shorter, it helps them from having that spotlight on them for longer than they really need to. Right.

Kacie Bail [00:18:21]:
So I try to remind them that the interviewer can always ask them follow up questions if there's some additional details that they want from their stories. So yeah, keep it between I would say 60 and 90 seconds for your answers. I think another tip that I would give more so for non native English speakers would be to prioritize your fluency over having perfect grammar or perfect vocabulary. So as someone who's also interviewed people and have been interviewed in my non native language, I can say that it always seems better when you're able to continue with your answer. And there aren't a lot of super long pauses. So pausing is okay, but if you can't pause, really continue with your answer, I think that will be seeing in a seen in a more negative light than if you don't have perfect grammar or perfect vocabulary?

David Hall [00:19:12]:
Yeah, for sure. And then what's the benefit in having a coach for all of this?

Kacie Bail [00:19:19]:
Yeah, so I think there's a lot of benefits to having a coach. So I think probably the first benefit would be that it allows you to get to know yourself better and also get more clarity on what you want. So a lot of coaching is just asking, you know, really deep questions. And so, as you know, with introverts, we tend to be pretty deep thinkers. Right. So a lot of thoughts going on. And sometimes, you know, until we actually say some of these thoughts out loud, we don't even realize some of the things that we're thinking. And so I think it can really help us get to know ourselves better by getting asked these deep questions.

Kacie Bail [00:19:54]:
And then once you do have that clarity and you kind of know what kind of role that you're going after, I think that coaching can help a lot with your goals, goal setting, and accountability. So during the job search, I'm sure everyone knows there's, you know, so many different things to keep in mind and so many different tasks, and it can get, you know, a little overwhelming. Right. So I think that having someone in your corner, someone to accompany you and to help you stay organized and really help you to stick to your goals so that you can keep moving forward is a really big benefit. And I think another benefit is that it can also save you time. Right. So if your coach is someone that has already been through the journey that you're currently going through, they've already done most of that trial and error for you, so you don't have to spend all that time figuring out what works, what doesn't work, and you already have a strategy that you can follow.

David Hall [00:20:53]:
Yeah. And, you know, the job hunt, the job search, it can be frustrating sometimes it takes longer. How. How do we prevent burnout, you know, going through the interview process and maybe it not it taking longer than we were hoping.

Kacie Bail [00:21:11]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. I hear that a lot, people getting burnt out. So what I. What I recommend to my clients is, you know, quality over quantity. And so what I mean by that is I've seen my clients have better success when they focus on, you know, one or two roles that they really want, and they just spend more time applying for and preparing for those one or two roles. And so this way, you know, they don't have to constantly be updating their resume or updating their interview answers in order to tailor it to, you know, 15, 20 different roles. So I think you would get pretty burnt out very quickly if you had to do that. So that was my, that's probably my number one tip there.

Kacie Bail [00:21:55]:
And I also think that, you know, it's really important to set aside time for self care so, you know, whatever that may be for you. So maybe it's taking a walk, maybe it's, you know, spending time with friends and family or journaling. So just figuring out what helps you to recharge and re energize and really setting aside some time to do that. And.

David Hall [00:22:21]:
Yeah, and then how do, how do introverts kind of determine that career that's going to provide them work that's meaningful and you know, work that is, you know, pays the bills and all that good stuff.

Kacie Bail [00:22:35]:
Yeah. So I mean, that's, that's a great question. So from my experience, I think that, you know, it does start with self reflection and, you know, asking yourself some questions about, you know, what do you value? What are your, you know, your strengths and weaknesses, thinking back on things that you like doing or maybe things you didn't like doing. You know, different types of work environments where you, you feel like you thrive in. And you know, I think, I think another question that I would also ask myself or the client would be, you know, reflecting on your financial situation too. I know that doesn't relate quite to the type of work, but I do think that, you know, determining what salary that you would need to be able to support the lifestyle that you'd like is important because, you know, maybe your, your dream job is something that, you know, doesn't even cover your basic living expenses at this moment. And so there might need to be some middle ground there or you might just need to develop a plan, you know, where you can get more financially stable first before you start pursuing that dream job.

David Hall [00:23:42]:
Yeah. And I hear sometimes people say the money's not important, but it absolutely is. How much you want and need is. That's an very individual decision. And I can tell you I've been up, I've been down and money is important. You got to have enough to take care of yourself and your family and whoever else, you know, whatever else you need to take care of. So it is important to do that math and figure out, you know, I want to do this, what's it going to take? Is this going to provide for me? Will I need to do something else in addition to that? You know, you have to, you have to figure those things out.

Kacie Bail [00:24:17]:
Right, right, Absolutely. No, I completely agree.

David Hall [00:24:20]:
So any other advice? Just on the job search in general.

Kacie Bail [00:24:25]:
Yeah. So, you know, I think that, you know, probably one of the biggest struggles that people come to me with is, you know, how do I even land an interview? And so with that, I think there's two different things that they can look at, which are your resume and also your networking. So as far as networking, or. Sorry, as far as your resume, one thing that I did want to highlight is probably one of the biggest mistakes that I see there is that I see a lot of people just listing off responsibilities and tasks that they executed at their previous employers. And I think the one thing that they're missing is what was the value that was provided from the task that they executed. And also, if applicable, adding quantitative data that supports that. And so I want to also mention that storytelling, it's not just in your interview answers. I think that it's important to tell stories on your resume.

Kacie Bail [00:25:24]:
And so being able to describe the value that you brought the business, I think is a really big part of that story. And just to give you an example, I had a client where they were a developer and they had this very generic bullet point, something like helped develop applications for nonprofit partnerships. And so there was nothing really about that bullet point that stood out. A lot of developers didn't develop applications. And so as I started to ask them more questions, I actually learned that they developed this feature that provides access to a database that has over 9.7 million validated nonprofit organizations to facilitate partnerships. And this feature also helps to prevent nonprofit scams. And it supports charity fundraising all over the world. And so I think that's a much richer, more compelling story to tell on the resume.

Kacie Bail [00:26:25]:
Of course, you need to make it, like, a little more concise, but, I mean, I think that is just so much more compelling and definitely stands out more.

David Hall [00:26:31]:
Oh, yeah, I, you know, I just, I'm hearing this just briefly and so, so powerful. So much more than what was shared. And yeah, we need to show more in our cover letters and resumes.

Kacie Bail [00:26:45]:
Yeah, absolutely. We have so many great stories, and I think they're just sometimes hidden in there, and they just need to, you know, people just need to be asked some. Some deep questions to kind of get them thinking and remembering about those stories.

David Hall [00:26:58]:
Yeah. You also brought up networking. What does networking look like for an introvert? What have you discovered are good strategies for networking as an introvert?

Kacie Bail [00:27:09]:
Sure. So I think that, you know, there's a lot of different, different strategies for networking for introverts. I would recommend in person networking as probably the most effective, but I do realize that that could seem like the scarier option maybe of the two, whether it's just online and in person. But I would still recommend meeting in person if possible because I do think it's. You can make a stronger connection that way. And so, you know, if you are the type of person that maybe gets a little nervous doing in person networking, then I would suggest, you know, you can always prepare beforehand too. Right. So you can see what types of people are attending.

Kacie Bail [00:27:54]:
You can come up with some questions beforehand. If you, you know, have trouble thinking up of question, thinking of questions on the fly, you can also prepare maybe a little elevator pitch about yourself, about your, you know, the type of job that you're looking for or you know, some of the skills that you are an expert in and things like that. So there's definitely ways that you can prepare for those types of in person networking events.

David Hall [00:28:18]:
Yeah, it's key and I think one of the struggles. So there's a couple pieces to small talk. We don't enjoy it in general because we want to get to the deeper conversations, but also sometimes because we're not always good at thinking on our feet, we're not that good at it. So by preparing, you can come up with some things to say, you can come up with some topics, especially topics that revolve around the event that you're at. You know, you can come up with some things and just relax and, and learn to be able to engage in small talk. And it's funny because like I definitely was, was very bad at small talk earlier in my life and I've learned to do it. I don't, I don't want to stay there a long time. I don't want to have a really long conversation that's just on the surface.

David Hall [00:29:11]:
But I've learned that yeah, you got to do some small talk to get to know people and build relationships.

Kacie Bail [00:29:17]:
Yeah, I think it's, it's probably one of the most effective skills that I've ever learned in that it's really given me the opportunity to meet a lot of really great people that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to meet because before I was too shy to even start the conversation.

David Hall [00:29:34]:
Yeah, so what, I mean what's. How many interviews are done like we're talking now these days do online and do you have on tips for doing the interview online when that's the case?

Kacie Bail [00:29:48]:
Sorry, just to repeat back, to make sure I understood the question, you said how many interview interviews are there usually online?

David Hall [00:29:54]:
Just, just like, I mean, how common is it now to have an interview online and what's your tips for being successful at that?

Kacie Bail [00:30:03]:
Sure. So I think it depends on, you know, the types of roles that my, my clients are going after. So I will say a lot of my clients are, you know, favoring more of the remote roles. So those roles could base out of, you know, many different cities. So if the city that, or, sorry, if the company that they're applying to has a headquarters that is based in a city that is, you know, not where my client is located, then yeah, most of the time those will be remote or virtual interviews. But there are some people or some clients that I've had where they, they kind of miss that in person, human connection. So they've had hybrid roles that, that they've applied to or maybe they're all on site. And so I have had a couple people had, they had to go on site for their interviews.

Kacie Bail [00:30:48]:
But I would say that the virtual interviews have been a lot more common.

David Hall [00:30:51]:
Okay.

Kacie Bail [00:30:52]:
I would say as far as tips, you know, for virtual interviews, I think in general the, the tips are pretty much the same. I will say that because you aren't able to be like in that same room with them, it might be a little bit harder to read, you know, how the interviewer is kind of receiving some of your responses. So maybe one additional tip I would say, you know, if you are doing a virtual interview is you can always, you know, ask follow up questions. Or like, for example, if you're not sure if you answered a question completely and you can't really read or even see their expression, you can always ask them a follow up question and say, hey, like, did I answer your question completely or would you like me to provide some more details? So you might need to follow up or check in a little bit more if you are in a virtual interview.

David Hall [00:31:44]:
Okay. Yeah. And it can be tough to read sometimes, you know, but there's still things you can do. You can still make sure that, you know, that you're sitting up straight and all that stuff that your camera is working and you know.

Kacie Bail [00:32:00]:
Yeah. And you know, I've heard stories too where some of my clients said that the interviewers didn't have their cameras on. And so I think that's definitely a change, you know, not being even able to see the facial expressions of your interviewer.

David Hall [00:32:15]:
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's kind of crazy. It just seems like especially the interviewers would have their cameras on.

Kacie Bail [00:32:22]:
Yeah, yeah. I feel like there's a connection piece that, that you miss there.

David Hall [00:32:27]:
Yeah. So back when you felt like something was wrong with you There was probably certain things you struggled with. What advice? Now, you know, if you're working with your clients, you know, what advice would you give them? Just how to be successful at work as an introvert.

Kacie Bail [00:32:44]:
Yeah, so I think there's a couple different strategies that I would give just based on my experience. So I'd say the first one, and I know we've kind of already said this multiple times, but preparation, I would definitely say preparation is probably my number one strategy for most things at work. And so that could be anything from, you know, making sure that, you know, if you're leading a meeting, make sure that there's an agenda to follow. If you need some to write down your talking points, make sure that's prepared. You know, if you're presenting something, make sure that you have a script or some type of outline that you can follow. I think another tip as well is to get better at asking questions. So I think that that is something that can be overlooked sometimes because we may think that, you know, in order to be successful or effective at work, that means that we have to bring forward like the best idea or like a brilliant solution. And many times, you know, some of the most valuable things that happen in a meeting is someone asks a really great question that, you know, identifies like an edge case that we didn't even think about.

Kacie Bail [00:33:54]:
So I think, you know, being able to get really good at asking questions, Another really great strategy and I think something else that really helped me when I became more of a leader was, you know, really leaning into those one on one meetings. So especially if you're a leader, I remember on any project that I started, I was, I would always try to schedule one on one meetings with my team members and also one on one meetings with any leader of any interfacing teams and also any leadership, executive leadership or directors or things like that, if that was applicable as well. So that way I could have a meeting where I could feel more comfortable. I could get to know my team members a lot better, get to know their motivations, their strengths, their weaknesses, their priorities. And so once you've had those one on one meetings, it's a lot easier when you have to lead meetings or do presentations because then you have a room full of familiar faces instead of people that you don't know.

David Hall [00:34:57]:
Yeah, that's key. That's such a good, good tip. It's like we do really well in one on one and you know, small groups, we can do well in a large group. But getting building those relationships, the dynamic is really good for us. One on one, especially introvert to introvert.

Kacie Bail [00:35:15]:
Yeah, Yeah. I really treasure the, the one on one meetings, for sure.

David Hall [00:35:19]:
Yeah. And, you know, you really build those relationships and then as you have other meetings, like you're saying, you know, you have those relationships built and, you know, I definitely have learned to benefit from that as well. Yeah.

Kacie Bail [00:35:32]:
I think to your point too, you know, introvert to introvert. I think a lot of times our team members are introverts and so they also will probably feel more comfortable speaking up and, you know, really saying what's on their mind, maybe giving some feedback that they were too afraid to say in the group meeting. So I can definitely relate to that. So I think the one on one meeting can serve both people.

David Hall [00:35:57]:
Yeah. And another thing that I would share with an introvert is you have some very valuable things to share. You know, sometimes we lack confidence and it's like you're in this role for a reason because you have a lot to say and you just, you need to prepare for the meeting. And I, I often say speak early, you know, so people know that you have something to say if you can.

Kacie Bail [00:36:23]:
Yeah, I, I think that's a really great tip, you know, and I think that, I actually think it gets harder if you wait. Right. Because as more people start to chime in, you're like, oh, like, what else can I say? You know, they already took the thing that I was going to say.

David Hall [00:36:38]:
Right.

Kacie Bail [00:36:38]:
So, yeah, that's, that's a great tip.

David Hall [00:36:40]:
And just establish yourself as someone that does have good ideas and, you know, that takes, can take some time. You know, people will learn to, hey, you know, Casey, what do you think about this? Because they know that you're thinking, you know, definitely don't wait for that. You know, make it so that you share your idea. But also you're just building a reputation that you do have some good ideas.

Kacie Bail [00:37:02]:
Yeah. And I, you know, I think that was one thing I had to learn too, is people do want to hear your ideas. Right. I think when I was going through my own coaching process and just hearing feedback from my leadership, I definitely heard more than once them saying, hey, we want to hear from you. So I think that that's really important to know that people do want to hear from you and I think that can really help build your confidence to be able to speak up.

David Hall [00:37:32]:
Yeah. Did learning that you're an introvert and embracing it, did that do anything to change your time management or energy management strategy?

Kacie Bail [00:37:41]:
I, it definitely made me recognize that I do need to schedule in some alone Time. So, I mean, there were. There have been times where I've gone to networking events or social events where, you know, literally after that event I'm just kind of just drop down on the floor. You know, I'm just, you know, I need that recharge time. So I think, yeah, one big change is that I need to make sure that I schedule in some. Some time afterwards and also before too, because, you know, like to prepare. So I need some time to prepare beforehand and make sure that, you know, I know who's going to be there and make sure that I try to remember, like what were some of the things that we talked about before, so I can, you know, bring those things up. And so, yeah, I think that is probably the biggest change.

David Hall [00:38:27]:
Yeah, before and after are very important. I had a guest call to before, pre charge, I thought, I really liked that. And then recharge, of course, after. And you know, you just gotta like, like I do this with the podcast, you know, before, an hour before I don't have anything. An hour after I don't have anything. It's just. So I have that time to get in the right head space and then also just take a break if I need it after.

Kacie Bail [00:38:55]:
Yeah, I think that's a really great idea because I think it removes some of those distractions too. Right. So no, I think that's a great idea.

David Hall [00:39:05]:
So anything else you want to say about how introverts, you know, they do have the qualifications, how they can best market themselves for positions?

Kacie Bail [00:39:15]:
You know, I would say that if, if an introvert doesn't feel ready to go to, you know, these in person networking events, you can always lean. I don't think we mentioned this, but we can always talk to our, you know, inner circles too. Right. Our family members, our friends, former co workers, people that, you know, we feel a little bit more comfortable reaching out to. So I definitely, I actually think that should be the first group of people that you. You reach out to. Right. So I think that is something that I would prioritize.

David Hall [00:39:47]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Kasey, this has been a great conversation. Is there anything else you want to add today?

Kacie Bail [00:39:54]:
No, you know, I think, I think we covered some really great topics and, you know, I hope that your, your listeners find them valuable if they are currently on their own job search journey.

David Hall [00:40:04]:
Yeah. And we can definitely do things to make the job search better and, you know, get that job that we're looking for.

Kacie Bail [00:40:12]:
Yeah. Keep on improving.

David Hall [00:40:14]:
All right. Where can people find out more about the great work that you do?

Kacie Bail [00:40:18]:
Yeah, so I did just launch a newsletter on Substack, so I'll continue to provide weekly career guidance there. I also provide some free coaching sessions via my meetup. And you know, if you don't feel quite ready for coaching yet, I also provide a free PDF on how to ace your behavioral interviews which can be found on my website homepage. And of course, you know, always feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn.

David Hall [00:40:45]:
Sounds great. Thanks again. Yeah, thanks David, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you're interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free type finder Personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I'll add a link in the show notes and I'd love to connect with you.

David Hall [00:41:14]:
Reach out@daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.